Everything is Unfulfilling

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Lucretius

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Are we just flies attracted to the scent of the flytrap?

To me, it seems that all vocations and careers are ultimately cages, they begin with temporary fulfilment and end in despair.

For example, the two marriages I’m familiar with most, my parents and grandparents, are both terrible. My grandparents (when my grandmother was still alive) never talked to each other, and my parents are heading in that direction. If all marriages end up in divorce or this way (see the statistics), then what is the point?

The celibate vocations seem like they end in the same way: friends die, or become intolerable, and certain situations makes close companionship with men too dangerous.

Maybe what I’m saying ultimately is that everything in human life reduces to suffering, after the illusions of joy fad. I can’t handle this scandal, I can’t deal with this burden, this realization that careers, families, orders, etc. are in the end doomed to dullness and despair. All my hopes and dreams have been crushed under this weight.

I’m so lost.

Christi pax,

Lucretius
 
K. I get it. I know where you’re going with this. Life is pain. Life is loss. Life is a downward spiral into nothing.

So what’s a guy supposed to do? Do you give up after having this brush with disappointment? Do you just keep your head pointed down and skip the rest of what’s going on?

Look I don’t want to trivialize your pain. I don’t want you to think what you’re facing and feeling doesn’t matter. But I also don’t want you thinking this is the peak thing. I don’t want you guessing away your future because you’ve summed it up in this very bleak end game.

Lucretius, I want you to know you’re not alone in this sorrow. You’re not the only one. But I also want to tell you that there’s a whole lot more going on than just this. It doesn’t have to be the only focus. Your perception here can serve you and others. There’s nothing forcing you to follow the dark and bleak of this. You can use what you see and know to get ahead onto a different track. Not all marriages die. Not all lives are meaningless. Sometimes you’ve just got to look up and a bit off to the side to get out of the deep trap of despair. Don’t let it set in. Please talk with me about this some more. PM me and we’ll carve this up some more. Your call.

Peace Lucretius. I’m here for you man. You just lean into me a bit. We’ll find a clear path.

-Trident
 
Without God everything’s potential would be reduced to non-existence …BUT with God everyone is provided a new and expanded opportunity. Can we not be fulfilled in everything with God?🙂
 
Trident_H said:
K. I get it. I know where you’re going with this. Life is pain. Life is loss. Life is a downward spiral into nothing.

So what’s a guy supposed to do? Do you give up after having this brush with disappointment? Do you just keep your head pointed down and skip the rest of what’s going on?

Look I don’t want to trivialize your pain. I don’t want you to think what you’re facing and feeling doesn’t matter. But I also don’t want you thinking this is the peak thing. I don’t want you guessing away your future because you’ve summed it up in this very bleak end game.

Lucretius, I want you to know you’re not alone in this sorrow. You’re not the only one. But I also want to tell you that there’s a whole lot more going on than just this. It doesn’t have to be the only focus. Your perception here can serve you and others. There’s nothing forcing you to follow the dark and bleak of this. You can use what you see and know to get ahead onto a different track. Not all marriages die. Not all lives are meaningless. Sometimes you’ve just got to look up and a bit off to the side to get out of the deep trap of despair. Don’t let it set in. Please talk with me about this some more. PM me and we’ll carve this up some more. Your call.

Peace Lucretius. I’m here for you man. You just lean into me a bit. We’ll find a clear path.

-Trident
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Code: 
Best Bit of writing and Advise I'v seen on C A. in a while,,,,

Follow through with this,,,,:thumbsup:
 
I think this is a good thread. I often feel the same, at least lately. But we Catholics must look beyond this life. You know what is great? To start a garden. There everything grows in it’s season… even in autumn and yes even in winter (winter salad). I find gardening very fullfiling.
 
People put themselves in these ‘ruts’, in the US at least, its common once you become an adult to have a career, normal to work 40-60+ hours a week, its also normal to be in debt, homes, cars, families, all cost money, so people have no choice but to go to work each day until they are 65-70 yrs old, and even then, many are still highly in debt…this is NOT what life is supposed to be though.

The more I think about it, I do not believe these ‘normal’ things are coincidence, I have a feeling this normal life was sort of ‘engineered’ to be this way for majority of people, anything to draw a person away from the true purpose of this life is a good thing for the enemy…what better way than to keep a person soooo busy/ occupied for so much of their life on things, that in the end, are useless distractions?

Im guilty of this too though, Sure, I like nice things, I enjoy my freedom, having money to buy the latest things, ensuring my earthly life is very comfortable and enjoyable…something tells me God would not really approve of such a lifestyle.

Plus, nearly all the people that seemed to focus on God and their faith in this life, their lives were anything but easy, normal or comfortable!
 
Reading the Bible is helpful to me. I read the following verses daily for encouragement.

Sirach 2:1-11

1 My child, if you aspire to serve the Lord, prepare yourself for an ordeal.

2 Be sincere of heart, be steadfast, and do not be alarmed when disaster comes.

3 Cling to him and do not leave him, so that you may be honoured at the end of your days.

4 Whatever happens to you, accept it, and in the uncertainties of your humble state, be patient,

5 since gold is tested in the fire, and the chosen in the furnace of humiliation.

6 Trust him and he will uphold you, follow a straight path and hope in him.

7 You who fear the Lord, wait for his mercy; do not turn aside, for fear you fall.

8 You who fear the Lord, trust him, and you will not be robbed of your reward.

9 You who fear the Lord, hope for those good gifts of his, everlasting joy and mercy.

10 Look at the generations of old and see: whoever trusted in the Lord and was put to shame? Or whoever, steadfastly fearing him, was forsaken? Or whoever called to him and was ignored?

11 For the Lord is compassionate and merciful, he forgives sins and saves in the time of distress.
 
Lucretius said:
Are we just flies attracted to the scent of the flytrap?

To me, it seems that all vocations and careers are ultimately cages, they begin with temporary fulfilment and end in despair.

For example, the two marriages I’m familiar with most, my parents and grandparents, are both terrible. My grandparents (when my grandmother was still alive) never talked to each other, and my parents are heading in that direction. If all marriages end up in divorce or this way (see the statistics), then what is the point?

The celibate vocations seem like they end in the same way: friends die, or become intolerable, and certain situations makes close companionship with men too dangerous.

Maybe what I’m saying ultimately is that everything in human life reduces to suffering, after the illusions of joy fad. I can’t handle this scandal, I can’t deal with this burden, this realization that careers, families, orders, etc. are in the end doomed to dullness and despair. All my hopes and dreams have been crushed under this weight.

I’m so lost.

Christi pax,

Lucretius
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I’m terribly sorry about your sorrow over your parents and grandparents. That would be very hard to take. It never happened to me, but I know if it had happened to me what a terrible blow and empack it would have had…one of the worst.

I would like to suggest one thing … offer your pain and sadness to Jesus for them. That would be a beautiful prayer in his eyes, and then what you are going thru will have some purpose and goodness to it.

May your mother Mary comfort you.
 
Actually, you are correct. Nothing in this life will bring endless happiness, or ensure freedom from sorrow or pain. When Our Lord walked this earth, his life wasn’t free from pain, and it ended terribly for Him. When He arose, He gave witness to our eternal life in His glorified body.

Those of us who live in the USA, as part of the wealthiest society the earth has ever known, can easily get lured into idea that we are entitled to perfection and bliss all the days of our lives – that anything less is being cheated of our “rights.” This belief is insidious and rears its ugly head in the most unexpected ways.

Personally, I get into this mindset sometimes – I’m 48, a single mom, and I’ll probably spend the rest of my life “alone and unloved.” I’ll almost certainly have to work until I’m 65, and my student loan debt won’t be forgiven until I’m 69. Ah, poor me!

If life is all about seeking happiness and avoiding suffering, I’m doomed.

But somehow, I manage not only NOT to fall into despair, but to have days and weeks and months that are filled with laughter and meaning. For me, life is all about serving Our Lord wherever we’re at. I am blessed to be a teacher, so my career is about making a difference in the lives of children and their families – yes, it’s incredibly stressful at times, and has even been dangerous on a couple of occasions.

We can easily get caught up in despair, knowing that our lives will never be sorrow or pain-free. Or we can look outside ourselves to the other billions of people on the planet who have sorrows and pains we could never imagine, and look for ways to become a blessing to others.

Just my two cents’…
 
Lucretius said:
To me, it seems that all vocations and careers are ultimately cages, they begin with temporary fulfilment and end in despair.
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The second greatest commandment is to treat others as brothers and sisters in Christ, just as you would want to be treated. Vocations fulfill that commandment. Careers are just work that we do to survive. Work is good, God gave us hands and sweat glands so we could work. There is meaning to it, it’s not a cage.

Don’t take this as being uncharitable. I mean it with the best intentions.
Don’t like your lot in life? You can go sit in the corner in your dirty diaper and cry (this is a popular metaphor in my family) 🙂 or you can make your life better. It’s your choice. We have free will for this reason too, not just so we can choose between adultery and monogamy. Acting like you don’t have a choice or that you can’t do this or that because of circumstances beyond your control are all excuses. What choices will you make in order to share in God’s providence by exercising the free will He gave you? You live in a society where anything is possible if you work toward it. What are you going to say to God when He says something like: You had more opportunity than any other group in history, what did you do with it?
 
Some things are in our control and others not. Things in our control are opinion, pursuit, desire, aversion, and, in a word, whatever are our own actions. **Things not in our control are body, property, reputation, command, and, in one word, whatever are not our own actions. **
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The things in our control are by nature free, unrestrained, unhindered; but those not in our control are weak, slavish, restrained, belonging to others. **Remember, then, that if you suppose that things which are slavish by nature are also free, and that what belongs to others is your own, then you will be hindered. You will lament, you will be disturbed, and you will find fault both with gods and men. But if you suppose that only to be your own which is your own, and what belongs to others such as it really is, then no one will ever compel you or restrain you. Further, you will find fault with no one or accuse no one. You will do nothing against your will. No one will hurt you, you will have no enemies, and you not be harmed. **
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  • Epictetus, Enchiridion, opening statement
Lower your standards and expectations. Discipline your imagination. Focus on what you have right now instead of what you lack right now or may lack in the future. This has been my path to increased happiness, though I realize that everyone is on a different path.

Life is a wonderful gift. Can we imagine a better life? Certainly, but if the things we desire are not within our direct control, then we will be made miserable by our own imaginations even if we live a life that would make most other humans die of envy. Happiness and fulfillment are inner attitudes, not the result of external circumstances. We can be happy or miserable in a wide variety of life circumstances, assuredly you’ve seen happy but desperately poor/ill people and miserable wealthy/healthy people.

Each of us can take action to improve our lives and increase our happiness and fulfillment, but we must remember that our locus of control is mostly within ourselves and our own minds. I can say without reservation that I am absolutely happier now than I was 3 years ago before I adopted a more Stoic attitude.
 
Love is just lust. Justice is just another kind of cruely. Life is about being the most powerful, and pleasure is a distraction from pain. All is vanity and vexation of the spirit.

But GRACE! Grace makes everything meaningful and loving!

But where is Grace? What if God doesn’t give some men grace?

He gives everyone Grace!

What if a heart is too weaken by venom to accept it? To even see it?

God can reach those hearts.

Then what is He waiting for? Where is He? Does He enjoy watching you heart get kkkickedd smmmaaaackedd cruuuusssshhhhed!!!?!! Where is this Grace!? What will it actually do?!! breathing heavily Aahahahahahahahahahhahahaha

This how I feel: like everything is nothing and should be brought down to nothing. The opposite of agape: instead of wanting the good for all, I feel for the destruction of everything.
 
Lucretius said:
Love is just lust. Justice is just another kind of cruely. Life is about being the most powerful, and pleasure is a distraction from pain. All is vanity and vexation of the spirit.

But GRACE! Grace makes everything meaningful and loving!

But where is Grace? What if God doesn’t give some men grace?

He gives everyone Grace!

What if a heart is too weaken by venom to accept it? To even see it?

God can reach those hearts.

Then what is He waiting for? Where is He? Does He enjoy watching you heart get kkkickedd smmmaaaackedd cruuuusssshhhhed!!!?!! Where is this Grace!? What will it actually do?!! breathing heavily Aahahahahahahahahahhahahaha

This how I feel: like everything is nothing and should be brought down to nothing. The opposite of agape: instead of wanting the good for all, I feel for the destruction of everything.
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The best way out of your dark is to become a help to someone else. You want to see grace? It’s not gonna get dropped on you. You’ve got to go out and earn some. Go volunteer somewhere. Go play chess with some old guy in a nursing home. Any old guy will do. I’m telling you it’s a way to lift yourself out of your own self-concentration. It’s a way to free yourself from this despair.

Because the world’s not all about you. It’s not all about serving you up with some nice and easy feeling.

It’s about what you can do for others now. It’s about making your life matter and count. Just to one other person maybe. Just one at a time.

I don’t know man. You just have to stop looking at your shoe laces. Look up at the horizon. Reach out to someone in need. And feel your chains fall off.

Peace Lucretius. I love you man.

-Trident.
 
Trident_H said:
The best way out of your dark is to become a help to someone else. You want to see grace? It’s not gonna get dropped on you. You’ve got to go out and earn some. Go volunteer somewhere. Go play chess with some old guy in a nursing home. Any old guy will do. I’m telling you it’s a way to lift yourself out of your own self-concentration. It’s a way to free yourself from this despair.

Because the world’s not all about you. It’s not all about serving you up with some nice and easy feeling.

It’s about what you can do for others now. It’s about making your life matter and count. Just to one other person maybe. Just one at a time.

I don’t know man. You just have to stop looking at your shoe laces. Look up at the horizon. Reach out to someone in need. And feel your chains fall off.

Peace Lucretius. I love you man.

-Trident.
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Dooont you uuuunderstaaaanddddd? I caaaaaan’t caaarry my cross!?! I’ve tried helping others. All it is is a vanity: a search for the pleasure of kind words and praise, and if you don’t get those, you end up with the pride of knowing you are so great for doing good things.

Look at the Pharisees: they did good deeds. And they were the worse of the worse because of their intentions!!!

I do kind things unkindly, and loving things with evil. I can’t change my heart, no matter what I doooooooooooo! Don’t you undeeeeerstabd???%!$?%!-%7
 
I believe marriage can be fulfilling. My parents didn’t get along well, my dad would always blame her for whatever we did wrong. And then she died and he is suddenly the most loving husband (would talk about her constantly. He misses her so much, etc). It was very frustrating but you see, marriage takes a lot of work. Sometimes couples think they don’t love each other and that any effort to “fix” their marriage won’t work, so they break up. I know my dad loves her, he just realized it a little too late.
If people make the effort and make God the centre of their marriage, they wouldn’t feel despair. That, and also discerning the right spouse.

I also know a couple with 8 kids and they are madly in love with each other. They keep renewing their vows and the whole family is so close and bonded and basically just perfect.

The problem with us is that we look at the people around us and think that they accurately represent the rest of the population and then we feel like sh**. Don’t lose hope x
 
Lucretius said:
Dooont you uuuunderstaaaanddddd? I caaaaaan’t caaarry my cross!?! I’ve tried helping others. All it is is a vanity: a search for the pleasure of kind words and praise, and if you don’t get those, you end up with the pride of knowing you are so great for doing good things.

Look at the Pharisees: they did good deeds. And they were the worse of the worse because of their intentions!!!

I do kind things unkindly, and loving things with evil. I can’t change my heart, no matter what I doooooooooooo! Don’t you undeeeeerstabd???%!$?%!-%7
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Lucretius. Don’t I understand? Yes. I ****ing do. Does that help?

God man. Look. You want to crisscross your motives and tie yourself up in knots. I get it. The problem is you’re looking too close. Ease up a bit. Relax your way back to the normal. I mean you can’t always have clean motives. But you can make good come from bad. It’s just putting one foot ahead of another. And I mean I dare you to really go out and play chess with some old lonely guy and come away a selfish bastard. I think you’re making this harder than it is.

The world’s not an easy place. I know that. But you need to give yourself some credit here. I mean it’s like a hero riding off into the sunset after having done a day of good, but being miserable because he’s thinking of how much weight he’s putting on his horse. You’ve got to cut yourself some slack and realize we don’t always do things as perfect angels. But the fact that you care at all is the sign that you’re not anywhere near as bad as you think. A guy with no heart at all would rejoice in the darkness of his shadow. But you’re torn up about it. So that’s a good sign.

And that’s why I care about you. Because I see that and know what it means.

Even if you’re just too close to things to see it for now.

Peace Lucretius. I think you and I need to talk more.

-Trident
 
Lucretius said:
Love is just lust. Justice is just another kind of cruely. Life is about being the most powerful, and pleasure is a distraction from pain. All is vanity and vexation of the spirit.

But GRACE! Grace makes everything meaningful and loving!

But where is Grace? What if God doesn’t give some men grace?

He gives everyone Grace!

What if a heart is too weaken by venom to accept it? To even see it?

God can reach those hearts.

Then what is He waiting for? Where is He? Does He enjoy watching you heart get kkkickedd smmmaaaackedd cruuuusssshhhhed!!!?!! Where is this Grace!? What will it actually do?!! breathing heavily Aahahahahahahahahahhahahaha

This how I feel: like everything is nothing and should be brought down to nothing. The opposite of agape: instead of wanting the good for all, I feel for the destruction of everything.
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It seems as though you expect more from life and God than is realistic. I think some spiritual traditions encourage this unfortunately. Our lives are limited and we are imperfect, that’s just how it is and it will never get better. We must learn to be happy with our circumstances, because they’re not up to us. We can, however, take control of our own imaginations.

“Grace” is irrelevant. Likely a shocking thing for you to read on a Catholic forum, but I’m not giving Catholic advice here. God will do what he will do, none of us can bend God’s will, and he is absolutely the furthest from the center of our control. We must focus on the inner man to find happiness, goodness, and peace. No one can do it for us, not even God (for if he did, it would no longer be us but an entirely different creature).

Also, love is not always “dressed-up” lust, and justice is not always arbitrary violence. Often? Yes, it would seem, but these are just more things we cannot influence nor control.

Further, I agree that helping others is a way out of the excessive reflection causing your pain. However, I disagree that the resulting pride you feel is wrong or evil. You are a good person for helping others at your own expense with no expectation of reward. It’s ok to feel good about yourself. The problem arises when pride becomes excessive and turns into arrogance (“I’m always better than others”) or hubris (“I can do no wrong!”).

Your realization that all is vanity can be a path to freedom rather than despair if you want. We are not responsible for everything, all will end in dust and ashes. We should enjoy, therfore, the good that we have here and now and be grateful to God for what he is giving to all of us.
 
Lucretius said:
Are we just flies attracted to the scent of the flytrap?

To me, it seems that all vocations and careers are ultimately cages, they begin with temporary fulfilment and end in despair.

For example, the two marriages I’m familiar with most, my parents and grandparents, are both terrible. My grandparents (when my grandmother was still alive) never talked to each other, and my parents are heading in that direction. If all marriages end up in divorce or this way (see the statistics), then what is the point?

The celibate vocations seem like they end in the same way: friends die, or become intolerable, and certain situations makes close companionship with men too dangerous.

Maybe what I’m saying ultimately is that everything in human life reduces to suffering, after the illusions of joy fad. I can’t handle this scandal, I can’t deal with this burden, this realization that careers, families, orders, etc. are in the end doomed to dullness and despair. All my hopes and dreams have been crushed under this weight.

I’m so lost.

Christi pax,

Lucretius
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As odd as this might sound, Lucretius, I can relate. In fact, I’d dare say that most probably can, even if they can’t express it as artfully as you can. Think about it: do you think anyone enjoys the traffic jams, stale coffee, fluorescent lights, superficial friendships, and tyrannical bosses of the workaday world? If this inauthenticity were all that could be, then one could truly blame no one for dreading waking up in the morning and living each day uninspired and unfulfilled. Why do you think so many in this country take prescribed antidepressants?

You dismiss the action of grace as something foolish here, but I’d dare venture that it is exactly that, grace, that has you feeling and writing this way. You know that you were made for something more than this; we all were. Yet exactly what it is and how to get there is difficult to see among the phenomena of this bleak world, and so you react against everything.

I have a sense that you’ve likely read Kierkegaard. If you haven’t, do so, his writings are all about modern man in his exile attempting to form a resolution to believe. I can say it changed my life long ago, and so I must most strongly recommend them to you.
 
Lucretius said:
All it is is a vanity:** a search for the pleasure of kind words and praise**, and if you don’t get those, you end up with the pride of knowing you are so great for doing good things.
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Your doin it wrong. No wonder it’s not working. It sounds like your confusing Joy for pleasure and pride. Joy is our God given gift resulting from our gift of charity to others. Joy as a Catholic concept is deep, it doesn’t just mean being happy.

I went looking for something just for you. Here it is. It’s only Grace if you have the humility accept it.
The implication is that a small amount of knowledge can lead to overconfidence, leaping to invalid conclusions based on what you do know without taking into account the things that you don’t know. It’s contrasted with a large amount of knowledge, which would presumably lead one to be more cautious or to at least draw better conclusions.

Forgive me if you already know this and your problem lies elsewhere.
 
Ok, I calmed down a bit 😊

I think a lot of…this…stems from some serious psychological issues that have been built up.

The reason I’ve been so worked up about marriage is that a girl I loved knocked my heart out, let it drop, and trampled it into the muddy earth: I was studying to be Chemical Engineering, and even though I wasn’t too obsessed with the occupation, I wanted to provide a comfort life for her, which served as my motivation. After she left me though, I lost all my will to live, and basically have been drifting ever since.

Luckily, I encountered Chesterton, who reminded me of the awe I’d forgotten. Studying St. Thomas opened my intellect. However, until I find a real motive to live, a goal, I’m stuck in a hedonistic lifestyle of sex and meal, wallowing in this mud of broken dreams…

Of course, this isn’t easy, because there are pressures from my parents and society and even the Church. I’m also natural indecisive, and, as you might have noticed before, I’m worried that I might become bored.

I’m very sorry for my behavior: it was rude and malicious.

Christi pax,

Lucretius
 
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