Eviction Freeze

[Anrakyr]

With over 40 million applying for unemployment in the US there needs to be done to freeze rent. Without it evictions will only make the pandemic worse. With US covid track record, an all time high in evictions in the last thing needed.

Please contact your congressman and senator asap.

 

[otjm]

I understand your comment and am not unsympathetic to it.

However, for starters, that is a State matter, not a Federal matter. Neither your congressman nor your Senator has any ability to impact the matter in any way.

And as an aside, the whole matter has the potential for a domino effect. While there are large corporations which might have ownership of apartments, the vast majority of it is owned by small companies and individuals.

Small companies and individuals almost all will have mortgages, and almost all of them do not have funds available for even a 25% drop in rentals for a 6 month period, let alone a longer period or a greater % not able to pay.

Numbers which I have seen indicate something in the range of 40%+ not able to pay rent. Some jurisdictions have set forth laws indicating that the landlords cannot evict, so there have already been laws put into place to protect renters (and these laws are likely to reach house owners who rent, as well as apartment owners).

However, the vast majority of apartments will have mortgages against them; and if the landlord cannot negotiate some forgiveness of the mortgage, there will be foreclosures, and the bank or the bankruptcy courts will be the new landlord.

Having seen what happened with houses which went into foreclosure, and the way that banks handled (or failed to handle) those properties does not bode well for anyone who thinks there are simple solutions. Many banks simply held the properties they took back as wasting assets; and the banks most often were not your local down-the-street branch; they were headquartered elsewhere, with bureaucracies which could rival the Federal government on obfuscation.

You have a leaky faucet in your apartment in a town in Arizona? Oh, the bank headquarters are in Chicago or New York (or somewhere else) and no one with authority is going to answer your phone call or return an email.

And while the landlord may be forbidden to evict, I have no idea if the same law would apply to a bank or mortgage company; and if it did, good luck on repairs.

Life is not fair. And yes, the laid off worker is having their ox gored.

So is the landlord, and if there were no landlords, there would be no apartments.

And so is the bank.

It is a house of cards, and the bottom cards were flicked out; and we can all thank the CCP for lack of transparency and honesty.

 

[Anrakyr]

However, for starters, that is a State matter, not a Federal matter. Neither your congressman nor your Senator has any ability to impact the matter in any way.

Federal has to authorize additional funding which was in Congress but for some reason stopped. Sadly they are taking a wait and see approach.
However rent is due before then.

And as an aside, the whole matter has the potential for a domino effect.

So does homelessness during a pandemic.

 

[otjm]

Federal has to authorize additional funding which was in Congress but for some reason stopped. Sadly they are taking a wait and see approach.

The “some reason” is that the Democrats appear to have handled negotiations as “We have them over the barrel now, so let’s demand everything”.

Wise of not wise, funding included not only support for unemployment checks, but added a bonus. The bonus was nice, but it was predicted to have a boomarang effect, and in reported instances it has boomaranged; as people were making more on unemployment than they were with the job from with they were laid off. And they complained when faced with the alternatives - go back to work or lose all unemployment.

The effect at least in some circumstances has been a lack of willingness to go back to prior jobs; and if documented, can be cause for termination of unemployment.

Each round of funding has had the same effect; the House, which has a Democratic majority, wants funding for matters totally unrelated and the Senate which has a Republican majority is willing to fund for matters directly related to the crisis.

Homelessness has been addressed in multiple jurisdictions by “No eviction” laws. It is not perfect.

But anyone who thinks there is a perfect solution is a utopianist. There are no perfect solutions.

If you want to move the House forward, write your congressman and tell them to get off the dime and solve immediate problems instead of trying to negotiate matters totally unrelated.

 

[Anrakyr]

But anyone who thinks there is a perfect solution is a utopianist. There are no perfect solutions.

If you want to move the House forward, write your congressman and tell them to get off the dime and solve immediate problems instead of trying to negotiate matters totally unrelated.

None off what you said is true by even the slightest amount.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

If you had mass evictions from homes and apartments, putting people out in the streets, that is a perfect recipe for social revolution. Won’t happen. The powers that be won’t let it happen.

 

[otjm]

Agreed. We have enough revolution going on now.

None of this is going to look pretty. The most well-meaning law is still subject to the rule of unintended consequences.

 

[otjm]

Since you are calling me a liar, I would suggest that instead of making a blank statement, you disprove my comments.

 

[Anrakyr]

Since you are calling me a liar,

You can think you are correct and say something that is not true. It’s called being wrong. I can understand if you have an ego issue why you’d use the term liar but otherwise it’s pointless.

you disprove my comments.

The “some reason” is that the Democrats appear to have handled negotiations as “We have them over the barrel now, so let’s demand everything”.

Larry Kudlow, Kevin Hessett, Mitch McConnell (All Republicans mind you) were quoted saying to ABC and C-Span wait and see.

Frankly I shouldn’t as a Canadian have to be telling Americans what your elected officials say on TV about national events.

 

[RuthAnne]

So the landlords are just hung out to dry? Their income doesn’t matter? Their mortgages don’t matter? Their kids don’t need to eat?

 

[RuthAnne]

How would this be any different than requiring the grocery stores to not charge their customers for food?

 

[Anrakyr]

How would this be any different that requiring the grocery stores to not charge their customers for food?

So the landlords are just hung out to dry? Their income doesn’t matter? Their mortgages don’t matter? Their kids don’t need to eat?

Was I unclear about funding for rent relief?
Furthermore, I think mass homelessness during a pandemic is a bigger issue even IF we go with your version.

 

[RuthAnne]

I was replying to the original post and did not see that.

 

[otjm]

You can think you are correct and say something that is not true. It’s called being wrong. I can understand if you have an ego issue why you’d use the term liar but otherwise it’s pointless.

I don’t put my ego on the line when I make a comment. And a rude, abrupt reply does not hurt it.

There is a matter of decorum in this forum. It is fine to disagree, and say why you disagree. You, however, did not say you disagreed, you simply said “None off what you said is true by even the slightest amount.” that is the equivalent of saying “you are a liar.”

I would suggest that your abruptness be toned down; if you disagree with a statement say why - it makes for dialogue. Whether I agree with your comments in return, disagree, or modify my opinion in part is through dialogue, not abrupt shutdowns.

I can’t speak to Canadian politics, but I have been around long enough to have heard politicians speak for, oh, something like 50 + years and learned to take neither party’s statements at face value.

Kevin has said there will be another stimulus package.

Larry has said that there are a number of things the White House has spoken favorably about, including a tax holiday, an incentive to go back to work and several other items. I have not checked on what Mitch is saying; but the bill starts in the House, and that was the source of much of the delay getting relief last time.

Anyone watching the process to get to the last stimulus package is aware that the Democrats passed a laundry list of non-related items.

And as to utopianists, we have publicly avowed Marxists driving a significant part of the street narrative. Marxism at its core is a utopianist philosophy that exceedingly misses the point of human nature on a number of levels.

Unemployment insurance is problematic on several fronts. While both the State and the Federal Government contribute funding of the insurance program, it is up to the state to set the parameters. The bill passed with a federal “override” in benefits which brought many people more money than they made on their job, That is not an incentive to return to work - although many jobs simply are not there any more, and many of the small businesses which have been close will never reopen. Over time, other new businesses will open (restaurants are a prime example), but that is likely to take several or more years. (continued)

 

[otjm]

(continued)

Rent relief is an interesting issue. I would support rent relief to the landlord upon proof of non-collection, coupled with a modified “no evict” clause concerning non-payment. Giving money for rent relief to the renter does not guarantee payment of rent when there is a non-evict law in place.

There is also an assumption that because people are out of work, they cannot pay their rents; however, if they were laid off (which is the vast majority of the numbers now), they are receiving unemployment insurance which, because of the override, is nearly equal to or in excess of the after tax income they had from the prior job.

On the other hand, most if not all of the states were woefully unprepared for the number of people being laid off, and their systems literally could not keep up. So there has been a gap between receiving benefits and immediate needs.

The biggest problem, as I see it, is that most if not all states have a limited time for unemployment insurance benefits (6 months in my state) and likely will need to continue for at least another 12 months. Given that states are responsible for funding part of the insurance, and likely have no other sources of funding, that likely will have to be done by the Federal government.

 

[Anrakyr]

I don’t put my ego on the line when I make a comment. And a rude, abrupt reply does not hurt it.

There is a matter of decorum in this forum. It is fine to disagree, and say why you disagree. You, however, did not say you disagreed, you simply said “None off what you said is true by even the slightest amount.” that is the equivalent of saying “you are a liar.”

I would suggest that your abruptness be toned down; if you disagree with a statement say why - it makes for dialogue. Whether I agree with your comments in return, disagree, or modify my opinion in part is through dialogue, not abrupt shutdowns.

I’d like to agree with you but then this happens:

And as to utopianists, we have publicly avowed Marxists driving a significant part of the street narrative. Marxism at its core is a utopianist philosophy that exceedingly misses the point of human nature on a number of levels.

We have a pandemic, people wandering around outside their homes is bad. Period.
People without homes are worse. Even if there is a Marxist agenda (which is an entirely different topic) keeping people off the streets should be priority 1.
When you muddy the water with bi-partisan concerns you dilute the discussion about the emergency at hand and waste all our time.
So if you receive a shut down its because you a wasting my time and the time of everyone else here because and I can’t stress this enough:

People are dying!

The biggest problem, as I see it, is that most if not all states have a limited time for unemployment insurance benefits (6 months in my state) and likely will need to continue for at least another 12 months. Given that states are responsible for funding part of the insurance, and likely have no other sources of funding, that likely will have to be done by the Federal government.

On this, we agree.

 

[TheLittleLady]

Giving money for rent relief to the renter does not guarantee payment of rent when there is a non-evict law in place.

I cannot tell you the number of people calling my office asking for us to pay their back rent or back utility bills (utility companies put in a no disconnect policy in March).

In the intake process, every person I’ve worked with say they spent their stimulus check on things other than back rent or utilities.

Now, eviction notices are happening, back rent of 1500 is not uncommon, 1000 utility bills are set for shut off. Local charitable orgs are able to help with 100 bucks or so on these bills, not a drop in the bucket. It is overwhelming

 

[Pattylt]

I’m not sure how evictions work elsewhere but a couple of years ago we had to evict our renters from our house property. It isn’t a quick process. These renters hadn’t paid rent for five months already (we were trying to work with them paying anything but nada) and it took another four months to evict and a full month to fix the place back up again!

Meanwhile, while my husband is still working, I’m retired and on fixed income. We had to absorb a tremendous amount of debt throughout all this…fix up costs alone were 10 grand plus paying the mortgage. We now have fantastic renters and they are both still working so no immediate problems for us…other than us still having to recoup our losses.

So, even with evicting someone, it can be months before you get the renters out and then hopefully find new renters! Sometimes, an eviction freeze is the easier of two choices…depending on circumstances and the amount of dependence one has on the rental income.

 

[Inquisitor85]

I’m not one to have any sympathy with landlords, I fail to see what they do for society. However the obvious solution would be federal law effectively granting a rent holiday and mortgage holiday until a vaccine has been rolled out and has reached a sizable percentage of the population. Make the banks pay back some of what they owe taxpayers from the 2008 financial crisis.

 

[whatistrue]

I’m not one to have any sympathy with landlords, I fail to see what they do for society.

How about making it possible for people who cannot, for whatever reason, own their own home to have a decent place to live? Is that not a good for society?