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Brian_Millar
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Thank you…
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The_Barbarian
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Walcott, Dobzhanski, Miller, et all, would be astonished to hear that. So would hundreds of other scientists who love God and do science.
Perhaps you don’t have as much faith as all those Christians who are scientists.
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Brian_Millar
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I have little faith in current science, only God gets mine…
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SpiritMeadow
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I’d demand proof for that statement but of course there is none since is it simply not true and thousands of Catholic priests who are scientists undoubtedly would be sickened by such a statement. Obviously you cannot believe this either as it is blatantly foolish.
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drpmjhess
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Indeed. The more I think about it, the more I’m disturbed by Millar’s groundless and despicable attack on faithful priest-scientists. I think of my brilliant priest friends who could think circles around most posters on this forum: Fr. Frank Budenholzer, S.V.D…,organic chemist and dean of Fujen University in Hong Kong; Fr. William Stoeger, S.J., Cosmologist at the Vatican Observatory; Fr. Chris Corbally, S.J.,astronomer at the Vatican Observatory; biologist Dennis Parnell, S.J., of Santa Clara University. These could be multiplied by the dozens, and to think of their characters and reputations besmirched – by a supposed Catholic, no less! – is saddening. It is contemptible even to pose the question whether any of these ordained Catholics who are scientists might be atheists.
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reggieM
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You really sound shocked that someone suggested that some of our priests actually do not have the Faith.
How about this for a “faithful Darwinist priest” being besmirched – by a Cardinal, no less!
“It is not only unnecessary, however, but contrary to reason , to view this grandiose path of life up to man as being an exclusively random process. When an astronomer, who is also a priest and theologian, even has the presumption to say that God himself could not know for certain that man would be the product of evolution,** then nonsense has taken over completely**.” The footnote associated with this paragraph reads “For example, Fr. George V. Coyne, S.J. in Der Spiegel…” (Cardinal Schonborn, Chance or Purpose).
These “faithful priests” we hear of are not much different than professed atheists since they draw the same conclusions on essential matters.
Overheard in a liberal Catholic clique: “I’m shocked that someone dared to suggest that Fr. Richard McBrien was not a faithful Catholic priest!!! After all, he is a priest in good standing in his diocese!!!”
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buffalo
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Brian_Millar
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How about this for a “faithful Darwinist priest” being besmirched – by a Cardinal, no less!
I’d like to shake that cardinals hand, there is nothing faithful about a priest that leads his flock astray. Evolution and the bible do not mix, you can fool yourself into thinking anything you want, but it’s the truth. I will not water down mine just to please a few ignorant, beligerant, athiests that assume science trumps the word. If you cannot handle this, then I suggest getting another religion, one that suites your tastes better, and honestly, I don’t care what collar you wear, you are not above reproach if this is the doctrin you teach.
I’d like to shake that cardinals hand, there is nothing faithful about a priest that leads his flock astray. Evolution and the bible do not mix, you can fool yourself into thinking anything you want, but it’s the truth. I will not water down mine just to please a few ignorant, beligerant, athiests that assume science trumps the word. If you cannot handle this, then I suggest getting another religion, one that suites your tastes better, and honestly, I don’t care what collar you wear, you are not above reproach if this is the doctrin you teach.
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edwest2
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Cardinal Schoenborn is correct. As Pope John Paul II stated there are certain “fixed points” that must be considered, and that must be kept in consideration. The dignity and identity of man is not reducible to pure chance and necessity.
To my fellow Catholics - keep this firmly in your mind. As the Bible states, a time will come when men will no longer endure sound doctrine. This is that time. Man wishes to exalt himself above the Church and above God. To reduce God and His Word to a collection of stories, symbolic stories. This obscures the historical reality of Jesus Christ and His sacrifice for all.
There is evidence for common design and a mind which created all things. What Pope Benedict referred to as an Intelligent Project.
God bless,
Ed
To my fellow Catholics - keep this firmly in your mind. As the Bible states, a time will come when men will no longer endure sound doctrine. This is that time. Man wishes to exalt himself above the Church and above God. To reduce God and His Word to a collection of stories, symbolic stories. This obscures the historical reality of Jesus Christ and His sacrifice for all.
There is evidence for common design and a mind which created all things. What Pope Benedict referred to as an Intelligent Project.
God bless,
Ed
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Brian_Millar
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AMEN!!!
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masterjedi747
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For crying out loud.
It is always “that time”.You could have made the exact same statement during the Protestant Revolt, not to mention countless other places in history. Man putting himself before God is nothing new.
Sorry, but it’s not true. You obviously don’t realize it, but you are creating a false dichotomy in which science and religion are opposed; in which faith and reason are not compatible. You would require people to either ignore the empirical scientific facts or else leave the Church behind: in both cases, ultimately taking them further away from the truth.
You’re barking up the wrong tree. The only things that need watering down are the philosophical opinions of ignorant athiests that assume science trumps the Word. Not your faith. A correct understanding of the natural world and all its processes that operate under Divine Providence should, in fact, only make your faith more rich and beautiful.
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drpmjhess
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You have no idea what you’re talking about, as you don’t even know the priests in question. They are fine priests and great scholars in their disciplines. One is a missionary in Hong Kong.
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drpmjhess
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I get the impression our interlocutor is innocent of higher education, as no one who has really studied either science or theology on the university level could make such facile claims. As for Catholic scientists, Ken Miller is a good example; others are Chris Corbally, Bill Stoeger, and Dennis Parnell. Archbishop Jozef Zycinski of Lublin, Pold (Pope John Paul’[s former see), has written a great book on Catholicism and evolution, *God And Evolution: Fundamental Questions of Christian Evolutionism.
Petrus
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Brian_Millar
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Your words are just that, words, I choose “the” word instead. I find no beauty in self deception, it’s even more horrifying with those that teach the doctrin of lies and try to force them on others becuase they think they are “enlightened” due to their understanding from the world.For crying out loud.
You could have made the exact same statement during the Protestant Revolt, not to mention countless other places in history. Man putting himself before God is nothing new.
Sorry, but it’s not true. You obviously don’t realize it, but you are creating a false dichotomy in which science and religion are opposed; in which faith and reason are not compatible. You would require people to either ignore the empirical scientific facts or else leave the Church behind: in both cases, ultimately taking them further away from the truth.
You’re barking up the wrong tree. The only things that need watering down are the philosophical opinions of ignorant athiests that assume science trumps the Word. Not your faith. A correct understanding of the natural world and all its processes that operate under Divine Providence should, in fact, only make your faith more rich and beautiful.
You can follow only one path, that of God, or that of man, your choice is obvious. I’m still wondering why you even bother to call yourself christian, you have already chosen your God. Always remember, you cannot serve two masters, make your choice.
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masterjedi747
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Well, apparently we’re in agreement here.
Once again, you’re just not getting it.
Evolution in an instrument, a law of nature, not a god to be worshiped.
I don’t worship atoms, gravity, evolution, the universe, canonized saints, or the Blessed Virgin Mary… these are all merely creatures (in various senses), and they all serve the Lord.
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Brian_Millar
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Evolution is not taught in the bible, this is the truth, yet your faith within it is so strong, much stronger then that of the word, that your choice is clear. You are serving two masters.
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drpmjhess
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Electricity is not taught in the Bible nor dentistry, chemotherapy, toilet paper, corrective lenses, or toothpaste. How many of them do you use, or out of concern for consistency do you eschew them, not being able to serve two masters?
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masterjedi747
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You’re absolutely right. It’s not taught in the Bible.
But I never said that it was.
Gravity is not taught in the Bible either.
Neither is the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary.
I assume you can see where this line of argument would take us…
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masterjedi747
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high five
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drpmjhess
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Thanks – your start to a doctrinal list is interesting too. The “it’s not in the Bible” gambit is a parlous one upon which to embark…high five
Do you know Archbishop Zycinski’s book? Or John Haught’s recent book critiquing the new atheism? I just got it from Amazon; haven’t had time to read through it. Atheists ripped it on Amazon reviews. The seem to miss the point in insisting on placing theism in the same evidentiary category as science.
Petrus
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