As far as I can make out there are five main positions in this discussion.
Haven’t seen any like that here. BTW, even Dawkins does say evolution based on mere chance alone.Those who are not-believers in God and accept the Theory of Evolution fully and completely along the lines of Dawkins (evolution is based on mere chance alone)
A lot more has scared away children than that. Try solid Catholic teachings on birth control, abortion, confession, social justice only - need I go on?I do care what other Christians think. YE creationism, taught to children, often leads to them rejecting Christianity entirely. And that should concern all of us.
What do you mean by YE creationism?Haven’t seen any like that here. BTW, even Dawkins does say evolution based on mere chance alone.
I don’t particularly care what Dawkins thinks about the philosophical or religious implications of evolution; he’s an atheist and everyone know it.
I do care what other Christians think. YE creationism, taught to children, often leads to them rejecting Christianity entirely. And that should concern all of us.
What do you mean by YE creationism?
Creationism as I was taught as a child in a fundamental protestant church did not lead me to reject Christ or Christianity but I know that it did others. Even as a child I could not understand why the Theory of Evolution was any threat to God’s love. It bothered me when rejecting the Theory of Evolution became an article of faith.
I think the Church’s position is the best teaching one can find.
I left my fundament protestant church mainly because of the Evolution Theory controversy. If someone is going to leave the Catholic Church it should be because they disagree with Her teaching not because they misunderstand Her teaching.A lot more has scared away children than that. Try solid Catholic teachings on birth control, abortion, confession, social justice only - need I go on?
This was what I was taught. I could not in honesty remain in this fundamental church (which I loved) because I did not accept its teaching.Young Earth. i.e. A belief that the earth is literally only as old as the number of years documented in the bible. (I’m sure somebody has the exact number but it’s like in the 5-10,000 year range.)
Chuck
Creationism that construes the Earth to be a few thousand years old, and rejects the idea that the Earth brought forth living things. Largely the doctrine produced by Seventh-Day Adventists.What do you mean by YE creationism?
If even a few are lost as the result of a false doctrine, isn’t that enough to actively reject it?Creationism as I was taught as a child in a fundamental protestant church did not lead me to reject Christ or Christianity but I know that it did others.
Few actually do that. Southern Baptists, for example, do not make rejection of evolution a requirement.It bothered me when rejecting the Theory of Evolution became an article of faith.
Always has been.I think the Church’s position is the best teaching one can find.
If people are put off by the teaching of the Church, then they are simply not willing to accept what they must do to be saved. On the other hand, if a false doctrine scares them off, someone is needlessly exposed to the risk of losing God forever.A lot more has scared away children than that. Try solid Catholic teachings on birth control, abortion, confession, social justice only - need I go on?
A false doctrine indeed. That is why we must be so careful about theories.(Barbarian notes that YE Creationism is a source of atheism)
If people are put off by the teaching of the Church, then they are simply not willing to accept what they must do to be saved. On the other hand, if a false doctrine scares them off, someone is needlessly exposed to the risk of losing God forever.
I am not sure if we are talking at cross purposes here.A false doctrine indeed. That is why we must be so careful about theories.
Just as bad is throwing away 2,000 years of constant teaching based on Revelation and protected by the Holy Spirit.
Evolution per se doesn’t concern me unless it violates Church teaching regarding man and our first parents.I am not sure if we are talking at cross purposes here.
Buffalo, Do you equate the Theory of Evolution, in any form, false doctrine?
Do you accept the CCC teaching that the acceptance of the Theory of Evolution is optional as long as you believe that God was the author of creation and that the soul did not evolve? (which is my position)
I really am not sure what your position on this is.
Barbarian: When you refer to false doctrine what are you alluding to? I am getting lost in this conversation.
The Church is not neutral in this. You can accept or reject evolutionary theory, but the Church acknowledges that is it not contrary to our faith. Indeed, the Pope says it is “virtually certain.”A false doctrine indeed. That is why we must be so careful about theories.
A literal Genesis was never the teaching of the Church. Many of the doctors of the Church, such as St. Augustine and Origen, denied it was possible.Just as bad is throwing away 2,000 years of constant teaching based on Revelation and protected by the Holy Spirit.
If it’s such a grave concern, then why does the Catholic Church permit people to believe it in the first place?I do care what other Christians think. YE creationism, taught to children, often leads to them rejecting Christianity entirely. And that should concern all of us.
Then your argument is with these dogmas.(Barbarian notes that YE Creationism is a source of atheism)
If people are put off by the teaching of the Church, then they are simply not willing to accept what they must do to be saved. On the other hand, if a false doctrine scares them off, someone is needlessly exposed to the risk of losing God forever.
This is why the false doctrine of YE creationism is dangerous.
The Church is not neutral in this. You can accept or reject evolutionary theory, but the Church acknowledges that is it not contrary to our faith. Indeed, the Pope says it is “virtually certain.”
A literal Genesis was never the teaching of the Church. Many of the doctors of the Church, such as St. Augustine and Origen, denied it was possible.
Hi. I’m here to be pummeled by you rhetorically (your challenge from the other thread). I read your introduction. Since it is your house as it were, I will try to abide to your wishes, that is put my cards on the table. I am probably one of those people whom “no evidence will convince”, however that said it is not because I simply place “authority over reason” (while we’re in fact obligated to do just that as Catholics, I’m not sure it applies here, as authority might be silent).I don’t really care if any particular individual accepts evolution or not. It’s a free country, and as you correctly stated, acceptance of it is not required by the Church. However for many of them it’s not likewise a mere personal decision but they are on a crusade. They really would wish that others not accept evolution, claim that there’s no evidence, and that their acceptance only arises from an *a priori *philosophical position. That gets annoying after a while.
That’s about right.Let me take on the evidence that shut the door for you, or attempt to. Maybe I should rehash my understanding of it first and you tell me where I go wrong.
You have a virus (I’ll concede its existence I have no idea otherwise) found in primates in the same particular place, inbedded in a particular way. The assumption is (I’m attempting to speak for you now, make sure I get it right), that because it would be statistically ridiculous to think that all primates catch the same virus in the same place, inbedded in the DNA somewhere, that it must be “passed on” and since it occurs in all species, it was likely passed on from a common ancestor. Is this about right? By the way, trying to break the defening silence you complained about.
If so, I’m in good company. St. Augustine and Pope Benedict XVI have a bit more credibility than you do. They don’t see a problem with a non-literal Genesis.Then your argument is with these dogmas.
Ed, nothing in the universe but sin can occur without God.Unfortunately, a few here simply repeat the same tired lines. Think for yourself. If something like evolution occurred, it only occurred because of God.
No kidding. What do you think the Bible is for? It isn’t about science; it’s about God and humans, and our relationship.However, the biology textbook is missing this vital information.