Evidence for Once Saved Always Saved?

[jrtrent]

I Do you not feel these issues merit conversation? How else are we supposed to understand one another’s beliefs?

The question that unfortunately comes to mind with many threads, not just picking on yours, is whether the purpose is to understand someone else’s faith or to simply try to prove that someone else’s faith is wrong. I was rather surprised to find that you would open up the question of “once saved always saved” and yet be unwilling to read the evidence and support its adherents give it simply because it’s on a Reformed or Calvinist site. Are Protestants, and followers of other denominations or faiths, expected to avoid reading any information that comes from a Catholic source?

In one short section, Boettner has five pages of scriptural text and commentary supporting the doctrine of perseverance of the saints, far more content than can be included in a post here, and his book is available to read online for free (ccel.org/ccel/boettner/predest.html). I’m not saying you have to agree with him–I no longer agree with him–but if you’re really curious to know why some Protestants believe in this doctrine, if you really want to understand that belief, you’ll probably need to read that section of his book (preferably the entire book, since understanding the previous four points of Calvinism sets the context for this last one) or something similar from another Calvinist author to get a complete answer to your question.

 

[aidanbradypop]

The question that unfortunately comes to mind with many threads, not just picking on yours, is whether the purpose is to understand someone else’s faith or to simply try to prove that someone else’s faith is wrong. I was rather surprised to find that you would open up the question of “once saved always saved” and yet be unwilling to read the evidence and support its adherents give it simply because it’s on a Reformed or Calvinist site. Are Protestants, and followers of other denominations or faiths, expected to avoid reading any information that comes from a Catholic source?

In one short section, Boettner has five pages of scriptural text and commentary supporting the doctrine of perseverance of the saints, far more content than can be included in a post here, and his book is available to read online for free (ccel.org/ccel/boettner/predest.html). I’m not saying you have to agree with him–I no longer agree with him–but if you’re really curious to know why some Protestants believe in this doctrine, if you really want to understand that belief, you’ll probably need to read that section of his book (preferably the entire book, since understanding the previous four points of Calvinism sets the context for this last one) or something similar from another Calvinist author to get a complete answer to your question.

jr…i sent a PM so that we can stay on topic here. Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut!

 

[Gorgias]

I am saved by the blood of the Perfect Paschal Lamb of God, one blood atonement for all time, whose blood shed on the cross washes away all my sins - Past, present, and future.

Here’s what I don’t get about this:

When I’ve heard it mentioned in this way, this kind of statement is utilized in order to say that there’s no need for post-baptismal forgiveness of sins (after all, when I accept Christ, all of my sins – past, present, future – are forgiven in that instant).

Is that the standard take on it, from a OSAS perspective?

 

[benjohnson]

When I’ve heard it mentioned in this way, this kind of statement is utilized in order to say that there’s no need for post-baptismal forgiveness of sins.

Is that the standard take on it, from a OSAS perspective?

From the few people that I know who believe in OSAS, I would say no. In their services, they do practice corporal atonement and receive forgiveness.

When I’ve talked to them about the idea of OSAS, the main thing that I fest that they thought I was missing was that God is all-powerful and that we need to trust in him to lead us not into temptation.

I understand what they are saying, but from a Lutheran perspective, we would say that we have enough free will in us to reject God’s love for us through his Son.

It’s a hard thing to argue with in a way - an adherent of OSAS could say to you “Don’t you think that God is all-powerful? That he couldn’t keep me from myself and sin?”

For me, the best reply I have been able to give is that “God has endowed us with the ability to reject his love, for he loves us too much to force the relationship. We however, can continually receive his love and grace through faith.”

 

[pablope]

Okay.

I am saved by the blood of the Perfect Paschal Lamb of God, one blood atonement for all time, whose blood shed on the cross washes away all my sins - Past, present, and future. And I am grateful, and I love HIM and HE me.

l

Hi, Telestia…just a question:

In order for your sins to be washed…those past and present sins…does one have to be truly repentant and have a contrite heart and ask for forgiveness, before they are forgiven?

Likewise with your future sins, if you do commit one…does this future sin also need to be repented and have a contrite heart and ask for forgiveness to be forgiven?

And as in the Lord’s prayer…“forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us”…in order to receive forgiveness, does one need also to forgive those who have trespassed against us?

 

[pablope]

Lutherans don’t adhere to OSAS.

I’ve gotten into discussions with OSAS people and from what I gather,

they view people who stray as never have been truly saved to begin with. It’s an interesting concept and I can see the logic in that when God decides to do something, “he does it.” So God could decide to save someone pertinently.

.

I have always wondered about this response from OSAS adherents…in that if a person strays, “he was never saved to begin with.”

Isn’t this…kind of lying? A person comes to the pastor, tells that person to repent and what have and is saved…and that person strays…and then you tell that person he is not saved after all, to begin with?

If this is not lying…then how would one describe this response…“he was never saved to begin with”?

Any thoughts?

 

[Agape_et_Shalom]

I have a brother who subscribes to OSAS and I have to be careful of my discussions with him. But if OSAS is true, why is there a New Testament at all? Wouldn’t we have just one chapter, one verse stating Christ died for our sins and saved us all? If salvation was predestined why would God send His most beloved Son?

 

[Anna_Scott]

Eat your and let us talk lol.

I am.

Anna

 

[Telestia]

We shall not perish if we do as we are told. We perish when we do not repent of our sins and turn away from God.

What were you told aidanbradypop? And by whom were you told this?

And by all means, enjoy the popcorn.

 

[aidanbradypop]

What were you told aidanbradypop? And by whom were you told this?

And by all means, enjoy the popcorn.

Ummmmmmmmm…Christ

 

[Telestia]

Ummmmmmmmm…Christ

What did Jesus tell you on this topic?

 

[aidanbradypop]

Telestia…I was saved by my baptism…I am being saved everyday by the Sacraments…and my hope in salvation is only a guarantee if I persevere to the end. That is where I stand.

Telestia…did you not see this post? You never responded to it.

 

[Telestia]

Telestia…did you not see this post? You never responded to it.

Okay, you wrote: “Telestia…I was saved by my baptism…I am being saved everyday by the Sacraments…and my hope in salvation is only a guarantee if I persevere to the end. That is where I stand.”

Okay, I understand you. Thanks for sharing. May God truly bless you.

I am saved by the blood of Jesus Christ, the Perfect Paschal Lamb, that washed away all my sins for all time. And whereby I received the indwelling Holy Spirit whom dwells in me, transforming my nature daily, that I may be fruitful and pleasing in God’s eyes, and a blessing to my fellow Humans. A work in progress.

I was dead in my trespasses and sins, but God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved me, even when I was dead because of my sins, He made me alive together with His only begotten Son, Jesus, my Messiah, by grace I have been saved, and I am raised us up with Him, and seated me with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward me in Christ Jesus. For by grace I have been saved through faith (Jesus Faith); and that not of myself, it is the gift of God; and not as a result of works, so that I may not boast in my works. I am His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that I should walk in them.

---

 

[JustaServant]

Telestia,
Where in the Bible or anywhere in Church history do you find the idea of salvation as a one time only “event”?

 

[PRmerger]

I am saved by the blood of Jesus Christ, the Perfect Paschal Lamb, that washed away all my sins for all time. And whereby I received the indwelling Holy Spirit whom dwells in me, transforming my nature daily, that I may be fruitful and pleasing in God’s eyes, and a blessing to my fellow Humans. A work in progress

Amen!

This is very Catholic of you to say, Telestia!

I was dead in my trespasses and sins, but God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved me, even when I was dead because of my sins, He made me alive together with His only begotten Son, Jesus, my Messiah, by grace I have been saved, and I am raised us up with Him, and seated me with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward me in Christ Jesus. For by grace I have been saved through faith (Jesus Faith); and that not of myself, it is the gift of God; and not as a result of works, so that I may not boast in my works. I am His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that I should walk in them.

---

Again, quite Catholic, friend, although the bolded section only happens when we die and have persevered to the end!

For, truly, no one is “saved” until he dies and is before the Eternal Throne, right?

 

[PRmerger]

As with other questions Protestants divide over, there is scriptural evidence that can be brought to bear both in favor of and against the doctrines of grace, including perseverance of the saints

Indeed.

And this is a testament to the lie of Sola Scriptura.

That there can always be Scriptural passage both “in favor of” and “against” any number of doctrines is the source of doctrinal chaos and confusion.

 

[Telestia]

Amen!

This is very Catholic of you to say, Telestia!

Again, quite Catholic, friend, although the bolded section only happens when we die and have persevered to the end!

For, truly, no one is “saved” until he dies and is before the Eternal Throne, right?

PRmerger, I am very glad for you and for me on your 1st comment. Thanks for sharing this.

As for the 2nd sentence, I do know I am saved. But no sense splitting hairs over this.

 

[PRmerger]

PRmerger, I am very glad for you and for me on yor 1st comment. Thanks for sharing this.

As for the 2nd sentence, I do know I am saved. But no sense splitting hairs over this.

And yet you do believe that there are people who think they are saved but really aren’t, right?

 

[jrtrent]

Indeed.

And this is a testament to the lie of Sola Scriptura.

The word “lie” is such a blunt term, and imputes dishonesty. Sola Scriptura is not a lie, it’s a belief. People who believe in Sola Scriptura are not, simply by holding that belief, liars. Most are sincerely seeking to understand and follow God’s will for them and honestly believe that the final arbiter of their faith and practice is the Bible.

 

[PRmerger]

The word “lie” is such a blunt term, and imputes dishonesty. Sola Scriptura is not a lie, it’s a belief. People who believe in Sola Scriptura are not, simply by holding that belief, liars. Most are sincerely seeking to understand and follow God’s will for them and honestly believe that the final arbiter of their faith and practice is the Bible.

Fair enough.

It is a lie proposed by the Evil One who has duped millions into believing his lie.

It is a veil that has been pulled over sincere Christians, who are so duped that they will proclaim Sola Scriptura–the Bible is “the final arbiter of their faith and practice”, in direct contradiction to Scripture which clearly states that the CHURCH is the final arbiter of their faith and practice.