Evidence for Once Saved Always Saved?

[Porknpie]

The word “lie” is such a blunt term, and imputes dishonesty. Sola Scriptura is not a lie, it’s a belief. People who believe in Sola Scriptura are not, simply by holding that belief, liars. Most are sincerely seeking to understand and follow God’s will for them and honestly believe that the final arbiter of their faith and practice is the Bible.

JR…my Revelation friend

When did the the thought in bold first become a belief of a Christian church or community?

It could not have occurred in :
100ad
200ad
300ad

When? By whom?

 

[Arthropod]

Fair enough.

It is a lie proposed by the Evil One who has duped millions into believing his lie.

It is a veil that has been pulled over sincere Christians, who are so duped that they will proclaim Sola Scriptura–the Bible is “the final arbiter of their faith and practice”, in direct contradiction to Scripture which clearly states that the CHURCH is the final arbiter of their faith and practice.

I would be love to know where scripture clearly endorses the doctrine of sola ecclesia.

 

[pablope]

I would be love to know where scripture clearly endorses the doctrine of sola ecclesia.

Which came first…the bible or the Chuch? And where or when did Jesus order the Apostles to write anything?

And when He spoke to Simon and changed his name to cephas/petros…did Christ say He is going to write or build a book or a church?

And if you have a disagreement…where did Jesus say to bring them…to a church or to a book?

 

[SteveVH]

I would be love to know where scripture clearly endorses the doctrine of sola ecclesia.

"If I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth." (1 Tim 3:15)

 

[PRmerger]

I would be love to know where scripture clearly endorses the doctrine of sola ecclesia.

While my Brothers have given great answers above, I will add to their very astute observations only this: the Catholic Church does not teach sola anything except Sola Christus.

No one is saved except through Christ. Alone.

And the ONLY way we know anything about Christ is through His Body, the Church.

 

[SteveVH]

While my Brothers have given great answers above, I will add to their very astute observations only this: the Catholic Church does not teach sola anything except Sola Christus.

No one is saved except through Christ. Alone.

And the ONLY way we know anything about Christ is through His Body, the Church.

:bowdown:

 

[Isaiah45_9]

While my Brothers have given great answers above, I will add to their very astute observations only this: the Catholic Church does not teach sola anything except Sola Christus.

No one is saved except through Christ. Alone.

And the ONLY way we know anything about Christ is through His Body, the Church.

 

[Arthropod]

"If I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth." (1 Tim 3:15)

The person who promted my question said sola ecclesia is the clear teaching of scripture, and I don’t believe this is clear. It says the church is the pillar and ground of the truth, but the greek word for ground has also been translated as support. I believe this says the church is merely the support and upholder of truth, as opposed to the diviner of truth.

 

[Arthropod]

While my Brothers have given great answers above, I will add to their very astute observations only this: the Catholic Church does not teach sola anything except Sola Christus.

No one is saved except through Christ. Alone.

And the ONLY way we know anything about Christ is through His Body, the Church.

Christ alone? No works? No Mary?

 

[PRmerger]

The person who promted my question said sola ecclesia is the clear teaching of scripture, and I don’t believe this is clear. It says the church is the pillar and ground of the truth, but the greek word for ground has also been translated as support. I believe this says the church is merely the support and upholder of truth, as opposed to the diviner of truth.

Perhaps it would help us, Arthropod, if you would define exactly what you mean by sola ecclesia?

 

[PRmerger]

Christ alone? No works? No Mary?

Mary does not save us.

Works do not save us, either.

Only Christ.

And His Body, the Catholic Church.

 

[pablope]

The person who promted my question said sola ecclesia is the clear teaching of scripture, and I don’t believe this is clear. It says the church is the pillar and ground of the truth, but the greek word for ground has also been translated as support. I believe this says the church is merely the support and upholder of truth, as opposed to the diviner of truth.

How will the church merely be the support and be the upholder of the truth…unless it first received it…and it was the foundation on which that truth is upheld and supported?

Another question: To whom did Jesus give the command to bind and loose? How can the Bible fulfill the command of Jesus to bind and loose?

 

[batman1973]

While my Brothers have given great answers above, I will add to their very astute observations only this: the Catholic Church does not teach sola anything except Sola Christus.

No one is saved except through Christ. Alone.

And the ONLY way we know anything about Christ is through His Body, the Church.

HA!!! I knew it! Catholics do have a Sola! It’s a very important Sola for sure.

 

[pablope]

HA!!! I knew it! Catholics do have a Sola! It’s a very important Sola for sure.

Well…at least we only have one sola versus your many solas…:whacky:

 

[batman1973]

Well…at least we only have one sola versus your many solas…:whacky:

Well played…

 

[Arthropod]

Perhaps it would help us, Arthropod, if you would define exactly what you mean by sola ecclesia?

I define sola ecclesia as what the previous poster said:

. . . . in direct contradiction to Scripture which clearly states that the CHURCH is the final arbiter of their faith and practice.

 

[Arthropod]

How will the church merely be the support and be the upholder of the truth…unless it first received it…and it was the foundation on which that truth is upheld and supported?

Another question: To whom did Jesus give the command to bind and loose? How can the Bible fulfill the command of Jesus to bind and loose?

Yes, the church first recieved the truth . . . but as the truth is the Word of God, I suppose God is the ultimate foundation of this truth . . . although I am not sure what exactly you mean by these questions. Perhaps you would elaborate further?

Christ gave the authority to bind and loose to the apostles. Just briefly, there are a number of ways of reading these verses, and I have yet to come to come across a convincing reason why Rome’s version must be the correct one.
I have yet to come across anyone who says the bible alone fulfils this, but I do believe the apostles and the church today can fulfil it without them having to be the infallible final arbiter of truth.

But I am open to any different ideas (and I also I don’t want to go in to it too much as it is not really the topic of this thread).

 

[Porknpie]

Yes, the church first received the truth

Scripture does not say anyone else would be guided to Truth but the Church. Singular. Church is “you” below…

John 14
26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things,[a] and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

John 16
13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth

Yes, the church -]first/-] received the truth

Yes, the **[Catholic] **Church received the truth

but as the truth is the Word of God, I suppose God is the ultimate foundation of this truth . . .

 

[aidanbradypop]

Christ alone? No works? No Mary?

Are we really still there? I hope this was just a joke or jab…I have lost track of how many times I have to explain this. UGh lol

Mary does not save us.

Works do not save us, either.

Only Christ.

And His Body, the Catholic Church.

Nice job R I am going to print this on all my shirts so I do not have to keep answering this question for people lol.

 

[Telestia]

And yet you do believe that there are people who think they are saved but really aren’t, right?

Wrong.

Anyone, who puts themselves under God’s mercy by calling on the name of the LORD, and accepting the atoning Blood of Jesus, will be saved.

Beyond this, we do not know what will happen in ages to come. Did you know that when Christians were assembling the Gospels, the book of acts, and the Books/Letters of the New Testament, that the last book to be chosen was to choose which of the two Revelation books that were in circulation: The Apocalypse of John, or the Apocalypse of Peter. John’s Apocalypse received two more votes than did Peter’s.

Had Peter’s Apocalypse been chosen, our Theology as who will be saved would have been everyone eventually gets saved. In Fact, from the New Testament letter by the Apostle Peter, 1 Peter 18-20, Peter states:

18 **For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water. **

When people give up their foolish ways, and put themselves under God’s mercy, good things happen to them. They go from death to life. There are ages to come, let’s not make rash assessments of who is saved and not saved in our limited understanding. Let God be God…

Let us be kind and mercyful to all. Let God be the Judge.