Evidence for Once Saved Always Saved?

[aidanbradypop]

I am not talking about the presence of sin. I am talking about the continuation of a life of sin, or the lack of repentance.

How Catholic of you to say!

 

[PRmerger]

You say that as if it contradicts sola fide.

It contradicts what is the topic of this thread, which is OSAS.

That is a different animal than another man-made tradition-- Sola Fide.

 

[aidanbradypop]

 

[Nicea325]

“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” (John 3:16)

I have no idea how one arrives at OSAS from this verse. This is speaking of redemption, not salvation. Christ’s sacrifice opened the gates of heaven making it possible for us to enter. But simply believing is not enough. Christ also says “If you love me, you will keep my commandments." (John 14:15)

The point is, even the demons “believe” in Jesus. That is not enough to be saved. I am curious as to how this was explained to you in your Baptist years.

I agree as well. How does one come to a such a conclusion John 3:16 refers to OSAS?

 

[aidanbradypop]

I agree as well. How does one come to a such a conclusion John 3:16 refers to OSAS?

If one can interpret Scripture however they want, one can come to any conclusion. Hence themany different denominations. Even in the OSAS camp there ardifferent views of it.

 

[Nicea325]

If one can interpret Scripture however they want, one can come to any conclusion. Hence themany different denominations. Even in the OSAS camp there ardifferent views of it.

True and unfortunately sad.

 

[mackbrislawn]

For what it’s worth, Lutherans read that differently, in that God has given us very clear instructions on salvation and as such we proclaim the Gospel as loudly as possible to draw others to Him.

But that doesn’t necessarily proscribe that God may or may-not save others as He sees fit and by his love and grace.

He has given us his promises, and we hold fast to them as we are able, but He has never told us that we are to only find ourselves alone in heaven.

I understand what you’re getting at. The CC thinks the same way. God may save others as He sees fit. I’m not sure what others’ opinions may be–I’m sure that there are those that are very exclusive and think that you have to be of their denomination to be saved, and no others. But Lutherans, like Catholics, desire ways for God to throw his loop as wide as possible.

However, to those who insist on belief, and faith, this verse does not provide evidence that OSAS is true, because it implies that those who cease believing will indeed perish.

 

[mackbrislawn]

But surely infallibility means he can make something up, declare it, and it is then true? Isn’t he supposed to be prevented by the holy spirit from saying it if what he has made up is not true?

Infallibility does not include revelation. That is, nothing new can be “made up.” Revelation ended with the apostles, who were inspired. The pope is not inspired; his infallibility is used for clarifying points of doctrine, or settling disputes definitively. Yes, the holy Spirit prevents him, or the church, from deciding wrongly. Infallibility does not give him new doctrine, but allows him to affirm or develop previously existing doctrines.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

I raise you a bucket

 

[guanophore]

Ah… you have fallen into the very common error of misunderstanding the Catholic teaching of infallibility.

It is not, as you appear to believe, omniscience.

It is nothing more and nothing less than what you believe men such as Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul and Peter were capable of: proclaiming a truth of God without error, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

So unless you want to proclaim here on this rather public forum that you believe that these men weren’t infallible, and that what they wrote has some error in it, then you do believe in the charism of infallibility, as the Catholic Church understands it, Arthropod.

It turns out Arthropod was a very poorly catechized Catholic, as many of us were. He has a lot of misunderstandings about the faith. Hopefully they can be corrected here!

 

[SaintPatrick333]

This is a huge topic, coming, as it does, as the last of the five points of Calvinism and flowing logically from those that precede it. The best book on the subject that I know of is The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination by Loraine Boettner. In fact, it was that book, and others like it, that convinced me that the doctrinal positions held by Mormons were not scriptural and eventually led me out of that church. Ironically, after over a decade attending a Reformed Baptist church, I found myself unable to subscribe to the doctrines of grace and actually seek membership; I ended up joining a Lutheran church and am now, after that congregation’s strife and split, a member of a conservative Anglican province, and even Bishop Ryle, a staunch Calvinist, has said that Anglicanism has room for those who lean toward a more Arminian outlook.

Keep lookin friend. The Holy Spirit is bringing you through all the man made heresy. Keep your heart open to Him and it won’t be long until you find yourself seeking Christ in fullness which is only possible in His One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

 

[Doxiemom]

How can you have evidence for OSAS when it isn’t true?

What is true is that Jesus died only “once” for all of us to be saved.

We sinners will always have to journey back to Him ( in whatever manner your Christian tradition is) .

OSAS is a lie and a tool for Satan to trick us into thinking, “Don’t worry. be happy”.

 

[guanophore]

 How can you have evidence for OSAS when it isn't true?

The same way people find justification for slavery, wife beating, and a number of other social ills. You pick and choose the passages that support your view, and refuse to allow those that do not into your reckoning.

What is true is that Jesus died only “once” for all of us to be saved.

We sinners will always have to journey back to Him ( in whatever manner your Christian tradition is) .

OSAS is a lie and a tool for Satan to trick us into thinking, “Don’t worry. be happy”.

It is also a way for people to be unhinged from the stress of battling with sin. Those who espouse it believe that all of their sins, past, present, and future, are already forgiven. They believe Catholics still have a “sin issue”, because we believe that the nature of sin has not changed - that sin still separates people from God.

 

[aidanbradypop]

That is why I love this site and forum. Iron sharpens Iron!