Evidence for or against "The Book Of Mormon".

  • Thread starter Thread starter wademann
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
W

wademann

Guest
Casen,

You are teaching me so much. I just had to start this thread from the end of an exercise for Mormons Thread. What is your evidence that the BOM is true?

Oat Soda,

It would be interesting if you were not Catholic and wanted to come up with arguments against the Catholic Church. I bet you could find all kinds of problems if you used to the same standards that you use against the Mormons.

Anyone,

What absolute irrefutable evidence do you have that the BOM is not true?
 
40.png
wademann:
…
What absolute irrefutable evidence do you have that the BOM is not true?
Click to expand...
Errors from 1611 King James Version show up in the Book of Mormon despite Smith’s claims of translating it from ancient golden plates:

catholic.com/library/Problems_with_the_Book_of_Mormon.asp

Second, it, like many self-proclaimed “inspired” books, simply lacks the evidence for its inspiration. If I wrote a book and called it inspired I’d HOPE that would be insufficient for you, regardless of how it made you feel:

catholic.com/library/Proving_Inspiration.asp
peterkreeft.com/topics-more/resurrection-evidence.htm

For more on the Book of Mormon issues, you can see Inside Mormonism by Isaiah Bennett, available from Catholic.com.
 
DeFide,

I read the link.

What are the exact same errors that the KJV and the BOM have?

What is the convincing evidence that critics of Mormonism have that say that the BOM is a synthesis of earlier works (written by other men)of the vivid imaginings of Joseph Smith, and of simple plagerisms of the KJV?

If God did not want us to have proof, couldn’t he hide it, even bodies and armor from ancient wars? Maybe he wants faith.
 
You will notice the response to my posts on this thread:

indianz.com/board/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14311

There was no challenge to my beliefs about the true origins of the BOMb. Evidence indicates the there was IRISH Christian influence in North America in pre-Columbian times. Not a bunch of “degenerate Jews”.
 
Ok, I’ve got to run so I’ll just post a little now and more later.

Let’s start with the text and method of translation itself. The Book of Mormon is full or complex Hebraic poetic forms such as chiasmus, some of which are extremely complex, that were little understood in Joseph Smith’s day.

Also, it’s possible that Joseph imagined his story in his head over a period of years but witnesses of the translation process said he never worked from any text or manuscript. He simply dictated the book and when he took a break he started up again on the exact word he ended with, a process observable to everyone in the house. Also, he did not translate the plates in chronological order. After loosing the first 116 pages he dictated the last three-fourths of the book (Mosiah through Moroni) before returning to the beginning Nephite history.

And in the book of Either he dictated complex genealogy or 27 names in the first chapter and then in later pages repeats the list but this time with stories attached to each name. Since he worked from no text or manuscript, if he had composed from memory this would be an amazing accomplishment, especially for a 24 year old boy with only three years formal education!

From Terryl Givens:
The naked implausibility of gold plates, seer stones, and warrior-angles finds little by way of scientific corroboration, but attributing to a young farmboy the 90-day dictated and unrevised production of the 500-page narrative that incorporates sophisticated literary structures, remarkable Old World parallels, and some 300 references to chronology and 700 to geography with virtually perfect self-consistency is problematic as well.

OK, I have to run some errands but I’ll post more later…
 
Since he worked from no text or manuscript, if he had composed from memory this would be an amazing accomplishment, especially for a 24 year old boy with only three years formal education!
Click to expand...
A lack of a formal education does not mean that a person is stupid. Some very bright people have not had the advantage of much formal education, and it is obvious to all that he was a very intelligent person. It is obvious to many people that this was probably not solely the work of Joe Smith, but that his “witnesses” were actually collaborators. And, several of his “witnesses” had the formal education to be able to contribute to the work.

Again, the work was made much easier with thorough knowlege of the Bible, a general story-line from Indian legends specific to that area of the country, and possibly a knowlege of the Legend of Atlantis, from Plato.

Done :banghead: :yawn: :sleep:
 
40.png
Jerusha:
A lack of a formal education does not mean that a person is stupid. Some very bright people have not had the advantage of much formal education, and it is obvious to all that he was a very intelligent person. It is obvious to many people that this was probably not solely the work of Joe Smith, but that his “witnesses” were actually collaborators. And, several of his “witnesses” had the formal education to be able to contribute to the work.

Again, the work was made much easier with thorough knowlege of the Bible, a general story-line from Indian legends specific to that area of the country, and possibly a knowlege of the Legend of Atlantis, from Plato.

Done :banghead: :yawn: :sleep:
Click to expand...
I don’t have that knowledge with a college education and 62 years beneath my belt, so how could it be easy for a 24 year old with 3 years formal education to have this knowledge in his head and be able to write without script to copy? Why would that many people collaborate with this guy, if they were not believers and had not seen the plates? You are giving too much credit to man, and are not thinking of the times and places where this took place. You dismiss the testimony of 11 witnesses who actually handled the plates and testified of such, even after some of them left the church. Not a good argument, you will have to do better to make your point. I know you will say anything to disprove it, just because you are Catholic. Yet you believe that statues cry real tears and bleed real blood. How far-fetched is that?
🙂 BJ
 
I take that last comment back!! :o

Early Irish Christianity was very Irish in character. They accepted the Old Testament as the history and culture of the Jewish people, but kept their own history and culture fairly intact. St. Brandan and his monks therefore knew that there was more of the world-- that there were people across the “West’ring Sea”-- Irish Heaven–

Many Indians also accepted the message of the New Testament, accepted the Old Testament as the history and culture of the Jewish people, but wished to keep their own history and culture fairly intact. Thus the BOMb was invented, to destroy Indian culture, and force assimilation through a made-up religion.

It might do you well to check into an Irish playwright by the name of Thomas Foote, who lived in England during the opening events of the American Revolution. His anger at what was happening here was obvious. If any country had any right to claim North America-- it was Ireland. This could have been one of the reasons for what the English did to that country. The parallels are impressive, and tragic.

Thomas Cahill, if you read this board, thank you. 🙂
 
Cognitive dissonance and “dyslexia” among LDS are probably closely related, in terms of resistance to learning from non-Mormon sources.It is too bad that Thomas Foote did not know about Bartolome de las Casas, and his struggle against the forces of the invasion. Yes, the Catholic Church must bear part of the guilt.
 
I do not need
statues [that] cry real tears and bleed real blood
Click to expand...
to have faith the the Catholic Church, in general, has a better handle on man’s relationship with God than any other church. However, and maybe because of that, I have no need to force my beliefs on other people.
 
Coracles can best be described as “round boats like dishes”. Ever heard of that phrase before? :tiphat:
 
It is my understanding that many, many of the original “witnesses” of the Book of Mormon later left the Mormon Church. It is hard to imagine people would leave something they know to be true. Has anyone else heard of this or have more information about it?
 
By the way, the Quran is also composed in beautiful, poetic Arabic. But Mohammed was completely illiterate. Does that mean we should believe in the Quran as well, simply because Mohammed said so?
It is up to Mormons to bear the burden of proof and show us why the Book of Mormon and the LDS church are true. It is not our responsibility to show that it isn’t true.
 
It is up to Mormons to bear the burden of proof and show us why the Book of Mormon and the LDS church are true. It is not our responsibility to show that it isn’t true.
Click to expand...
I am sincerely sorry that my analysis of the problem threatens your faith.
 
Anima Christi:
It is my understanding that many, many of the original “witnesses” of the Book of Mormon later left the Mormon Church. It is hard to imagine people would leave something they know to be true. Has anyone else heard of this or have more information about it?
Click to expand...
Smith’s “witnesses” of the golden plates didn’t die for the faith. Of “the 8” witnesses, Page produced his own seer stone and made prophecies, leading Whitmer and Cowdery also astray. Jacob Whitmer and Page apostatized from the Mormon Church; John Whitmer was excommunicated.

The original three weren’t very reliable, joining other sects or religions on and off, and Cowdrey even once made a “full and final renunciation” of his Mormon beliefs. Smith called Harris “a wicked man”. By 1847, all eleven (8+3 orig.) witnesses were either dead or had joined competing sects.

This explored in the book Inside Mormonism, but can probably also be found in other sources as well.
 
As I read the “evidences” both for and against the Book of Mormon I am not persuaded either way. While it is true that I now question the teachings of my Mormon faith I do not question the love I have for the Book of Mormon and it’s teachings. I have read it several times in the past 37 years and I find nothing that does not point me to Christ. Whether it came about as the Church claims or from the imagination of Joseph Smith is of little importance to me. It still inspires me. Perhaps some day I will come to know that the LDS Church is not true and will find a home in the Catholic Church. Yet I feel that I will still find many things of worth in the Book of Mormon whatever their source.
 
DeFide,

Have you read the BOM?

Everyone,

I would be interested to know, which posters and future posters, of this thread, have read the BOM.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top