Evidence that Praying Works

[ConfusedTim]

Is there any evidence at all that confirms that praying works e.g. in relation to healing or anything else for that matter. This would be difficult to prove but you could for example see some lose correlations betwen the healing of theists versus non theists in hosptals or there may only be anecodatal evidnece from doctors, etc that say this person survived and i didnt expect it - and then look to see if the family were Christians or not.

Hopefully, this will make sense

 

[Mersenne]

Studying intercessory prayer is actually not all that difficult. You have a group of patients, you split them up, one group gets extra prayer and the other doesn’t. If you don’t get better results, then clearly prayer doesn’t work. No surprise, such studies have consistently shown nothing, unless the scientist cheats to get the result he wants. The largest study ever done of intercessory prayer turned up nothing except that thinking someone is praying for you can actually make you worse.

 

[VociMike]

Before you can determine if prayer “works” you need to establish what prayer is intended to do.

 

[Answersplease]

Prayers from who?

Prayers from the righteous?

Prayers from “Cafeteria Catholics”, “Nominal Catholics”, and heretical “Catholics”?

Prayers from shills who say they are some kind of Christian but are really not?

Prayers from people who say they are Christian but don’t live like a Christian?

Prayers from people who say they are Christian but don’t really believe anymore?

Prayers from atheists?

Prayers from people who practice non-Christian religions?

ALSO

What constitutes a “successful” prayer?

A prayer that was answered “positively”?

A prayer that was answered “negatively”?

Are all prayers supposed to be answered with a “positive” answer?

What if your asking for something that is not in accord with what God wants?

 

[survive]

Hospital prayer studies are showing mixed results, but most do show a positive correlation between prayer and healing whether the prayed-for knew about the program or not.
I have personally experienced many healings by praying, and know of many others. Some were instantaneous vanishings of visible physical ailments, and some saved lives. One sign that it can’t possibly be dismissed as psychosomatic is that it also works on animals. Sure, a pet may know you are being kind, and may relax, but why would that cause a tumor to vanish?
Of course there are those who will cast around for an alternative explanation. I’ve heard a skeptic even claim that the healings are all of “psychological, phantom illnesses” such as cancer, tumors and viral disease, not “real” illnesses such as… well… all they could come up with was amputation. But there are amputee healings, only very rarely. Yet even one ought to be enough. And the evidence for them is as much as for anything else that ever happens to people who don’t happen to live in Randi’s lab or videotape every second of their lives. As far as the “phantom” illnesses are concerned, since when are cancer, tumors, lung disease, infection, etc. phantom illnesses? If they were, almost every pharmacy would be out of business, surgery would be very rare, and we would be livng several times longer. There would be no chemotherapy, certainly no disputes about condomd or antibiotics or vaccines, and no Center for Disease Control. Tobacco regulation would be pointless.

 

[Mersenne]

What if your asking for something that is not in accord with what God wants?

If god just does what he wants, regardless if you pray or not, then prayer doesn’t do anything. Well, besides make you feel good maybe.

 

[Answersplease]

If god just does what he wants, regardless if you pray or not, then prayer doesn’t do anything. Well, besides make you feel good maybe.

I never said God just does what He wants.

A prayer might align with what God wants and it might not.

More clearly, I doubt that prayers that align with what God definitely does not want will be answered positively.

Christians believe that the prayers of the righteous avail much.

 

[imkingdad]

The Best Evidence that Prayers work would be the Canonization Process of the Catholic Church. The requirement for 1 or 2 Miracles for Sainthood & the vociferous
objections of the ‘Devil’s Advocate’ ensures that the documentation & witnessing to any Miracle & especially Healing Miracles are fully sustainable by the Church.

The various types of Healings that have been documented at Lourdes & other Holy sites are another Fine example of the efficacious combination of Faith, Hope & Prayer is everyday life.

I hope this Helps,

yours in Christ

 

[survive]

Just tonight I was comparing answered-prayer anecdotes with friends.
One was saying that when she was poor and hungry, craving nutrients she needed, she prayed for chicken and carrots. As soon as she was done, the phone rang. Someone invited her to dinner – they had more chicken and carrots than they could eat. Similar things had happened to all of us. Billy Graham’s wife prayed for a bag of groceries under the same circumstances once, specifying just what she needed, and a knock came to the door: a stranger asking where she wanted the groceries. She asked who he was. He just put the food away and didn’t say. He left. The groceries were exactly what she had asked for – to the letter. Mother Teresa of Calcutta lived that way, as do many poor Christians in rich countries and poor countries. Sometimes the answer is “Yes”, sometimes it’s “Not yet”, and sometimes it’s “I have a better idea”.
God answers prayer abundantly. I’m alive due to a huge string of miracles, and I already know of many people who were praying for a number of them around the time they happened.

 

[Mersenne]

I never said God just does what He wants.

A prayer might align with what God wants and it might not.

Okay, so if he only does it when it’s what he wants then he only does what he wants.

 

[Answersplease]

Okay, so if he only does it when it’s what he wants then he only does what he wants.

I understand your logic and technically it is right.

A newborn baby can’t force its mother to do anything.
If the baby’s mother was planning on feeding it at 3p.m. but the baby keeps crying and the mother realizes it wants food, then the mother can change her mind and feed it sooner.
The baby did’nt force its mother to feed it, the baby made a request and the mother agreed to it.

If a teenager asks its father for some money so the teenager can go buy some R-rated movies and condoms, that request will probably not be answered positively.

I doubt if there is anyone that can force God to do anything.

The scriptures say that thou shall not tempt the Lord thy God. Forcing God to prove Himself by trying to force a miracle out of Him will probably not go well.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Is there any evidence at all that confirms that praying works e.g. in relation to healing or anything else for that matter. This would be difficult to prove but you could for example see some lose correlations betwen the healing of theists versus non theists in hosptals or there may only be anecodatal evidnece from doctors, etc that say this person survived and i didnt expect it - and then look to see if the family were Christians or not.

Hopefully, this will make sense

Barring someone here presenting evidence to the contrary, I think we must acknowledge the faith required to believe in the power of prayer. A “proof” in the mind of those who require proof involves some scientific evidence connecting a person’s “request to God” with the actualization in time and space of that request. I think it cannot be done.

As I recall, the last chapter in The Dilbert Future (ok, I’m not joking here) is a serious discourse by Scott Adams. In it he refers to studies of health recoveries of people for whom were receiving prayers and those who were not. He said those who were being prayed had better recoveries. Granted he did not come to any conclusions whether this was a placebo effect, divine intervention, or some other thread of energy passing through the ether. So even such a study is not a “proof.”

Certainly in miraculous cases, the evidence is stronger, but still not a “proof”. It is a very difficult thing to convince a lapse faithful person of prayer when they feel their prayers were “unheard.”

 

[Mersenne]

I understand your logic and technically it is right.

A newborn baby can’t force its mother to do anything.
If the baby’s mother was planning on feeding it at 3p.m. but the baby keeps crying and the mother realizes it wants food, then the mother can change her mind and feed it sooner.
The baby did’nt force its mother to feed it, the baby made a request and the mother agreed to it.

If a teenager asks its father for some money so the teenager can go buy some R-rated movies and condoms, that request will probably not be answered positively.

I doubt if there is anyone that can force God to do anything.

The scriptures say that thou shall not tempt the Lord thy God. Forcing God to prove Himself by trying to force a miracle out of Him will probably not go well.

True, but I don’t think praying for the recovery of the sick really equates to buying a kid R-Rated movies and condoms, and no one is trying to force god to do anything. These studies operate by giving religious people the names of those who are sick. All those who are praying know is that there is someone sick that needs their prayers. I would be aghast at a mother who would refuse to feed her hungry child, to the point of allowing it to die, just because some third party was observing. And it doesn’t matter whether god sometimes answers prayers or always answers prayers, we would still expect it to be possible to see a difference between a non-prayed for group and a prayed for group, unless prayer does nothing.

Is it possible that the wrong sect was studied, the prayer done wrong, the saints out of alignment with the universal chakra or something like that? Of course. But science doesn’t work on absolutes like that anyway. We provide evidence, the evidence accumulates and accumulates and the theory becomes stronger and stronger. If all the evidence points a certain way then there is a very high probability that our theory is correct. Right now all the good evidence points to prayer not working.

 

[VociMike]

If god just does what he wants, regardless if you pray or not, then prayer doesn’t do anything. Well, besides make you feel good maybe.

Back up and think about this. If we can change God’s mind, what does that say about God? That he needed our help in coming to a better decision?

But when you say “prayer doesn’t do anything” you are being far too dismissive. The entire goal of our earthly lives is to align ourselves with God. Prayer is an important component in this alignment with God. Understand this and you understand prayer.

 

[Mersenne]

Back up and think about this. If we can change God’s mind, what does that say about God? That he needed our help in coming to a better decision?

But when you say “prayer doesn’t do anything” you are being far too dismissive. The entire goal of our earthly lives is to align ourselves with God. Prayer is an important component in this alignment with God. Understand this and you understand prayer.

Alright, so prayer does nothing external to yourself.

 

[VociMike]

Alright, so prayer does nothing external to yourself.

I didn’t say that, although in the fundamental sense it is true. It is God who does the doing, not prayer. And the doing that God does will always be for the best, regardless. Now there may be cases where the best is that the person prays for something and sees a positive response to that prayer. And there may be cases where the person prays for something and does not see a positive response, or sees a totally unexpected response.

The real issue here is, once again, the problem of pain, and the proper solution to that problem. We want somebody who is sick not to be sick, and that is a noble desire, but it is also short-sighted. Short-sighted because we are all going to die (call it extreme sickness), and we are all facing eternity based on our choices. So while from our perspective a cure from sickness may be the best possible outcome, our perspective is woefully limited and distorted.

 

[Halos1n2Horns]

My opinion on this is

My prayers are always answered and yes i believe Prayers work.
I pray for my Priests all of them past and present and I can tell in there attitudes if my Prayers are working !!!
I Pray for the sick in our community and those whom i know are sick Most are healed.
I Pray for a end to abortion, Pray for Peace
Yes i pray all the time never quit and i pray for thanks to Jesus for all the blessings i receive and those around me.

Does Prayer work I would say yes, always,
If It don’t work, this could mean a sign from Jesus saying what did you do to make your prayers not work, What inside of you needs to come out maybe in confession or what inside of your heart do you need to confess to Christ to make your prayers work.

Pray hard, Pray long, Pray without ceasing.
Our father who art in heaven, hallowed it be your name.
If Jesus didnt want us to pray we wouldn’t have the Our Father prayer .

Only you can be the judge as to where or not your prayers work, because only Jesus and you know what you pray for. There doesn’t have to be evidence in your prayers to work. It’s just a matter of what and whom you are praying for and remember Jesus does say no to.

My opinion thanks for my 2 cents Halos

 

[Answersplease]

True, but I don’t think praying for the recovery of the sick really equates to buying a kid R-Rated movies and condoms, and no one is trying to force god to do anything.

Irrelavant, so what if the prayers don’t equate.
The point is that some prayers are worthy of being answered positively and some prayers are not.

These studies operate by giving religious people the names of those who are sick. All those who are praying know is that there is someone sick that needs their prayers.

I have heard of scientific experiments that support the power of prayer but I did not mention them because I don’t have the time or inclination to do the research required to present them here. So I will not use them to prove my point.

But you have mentioned scientific test, and you are using them to prove your point,
post the links, do the research:
Who made the experiments?
Were the researchers athiest scientists and biased?
Who were the people praying? Were they paid? Were they shills?

You claim that all the experiments showed negative results unless the researcher “cheats” in favor of showing a positive result, prove that they cheated.

I would be aghast at a mother who would refuse to feed her hungry child, to the point of allowing it to die, just because some third party was observing.

Irrelavant

And it doesn’t matter whether god sometimes answers prayers or always answers prayers, we would still expect it to be possible to see a difference between a non-prayed for group and a prayed for group, unless prayer does nothing.

Frequency certainly does matter when you are trying to see a difference.
Just as an example: If it were given that God only aswered prayers once every thousand years, then the experiment would have to be adjusted to match.

Also:
No one knows when and how often God answers a prayer positively.
Many prayers may be ansered negatively and you would never know.

Is it possible that the wrong sect was studied, the prayer done wrong, the saints out of alignment with the universal chakra or something like that? Of course.

But science doesn’t work on absolutes like that anyway. We provide evidence, the evidence accumulates and accumulates and the theory becomes stronger and stronger. If all the evidence points a certain way then there is a very high probability that our theory is correct.

If science can’t give you an absolute answer than you should not put your FAITH in it.

Right now all the good evidence points to prayer not working.

OK, time to post your sources and unbiased researchers, and unpaid devout righteous prayer groups.

Also prove that the experiments with positive results were done by cheaters.

That is for the other posters on this forum, show them, I am not inclined to do the research necessary, I proved my point some prayers are answered positively and some are answered negatively.

 

[imkingdad]

Sometimes the Answer to a Prayer is NO! Not now!
Thy kingdom come Thy will be done.

We need to realize that our prayers must ultimately be for God’s will to be Done and that we can find the strength & courage to accept His Will instead of Our will our desires.

 

[Mersenne]

Irrelavant, so what if the prayers don’t equate.
The point is that some prayers are worthy of being answered positively and some prayers are not.

It is relevant, as it says something about the god you worship, and the many excuses you must constantly come up with for him.

I have heard of scientific experiments that support the power of prayer but I did not mention them because I don’t have the time or inclination to do the research required to present them here. So I will not use them to prove my point.

But you have mentioned scientific test, and you are using them to prove your point,

post the links, do the research:

Who made the experiments?
Were the researchers athiest scientists and biased?

The study
Who were the people praying? Were they paid? Were they shills?

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16569567

You claim that all the experiments showed negative results unless the researcher “cheats” in favor of showing a positive result, prove that they cheated.

Here is a good example

A Randomized, Controlled Trial of the Effects of Remote, Intercessory Prayer on Outcomes in Patients Admitted to the Coronary Care Unit

William S. Harris, PhD; Manohar Gowda, MD; Jerry W. Kolb, MDiv; Christopher P. Strychacz, PhD; James L. Vacek, MD; Philip G. Jones, MS; Alan Forker, MD; James H. O’Keefe, MD; Ben D. McCallister, MD

Arch Intern Med. 1999;159:2273-2278.

This, for example, the authors did their calculations wrong by making 34 separate t-tests and not accounting for that, and thus came up with incorrect results.

Irrelavant

Hardly, it trashes your silly argument that some third partying observing.

Frequency certainly does matter when you are trying to see a difference.
Just as an example: If it were given that God only aswered prayers once every thousand years, then the experiment would have to be adjusted to match.

It doesn’t effect the possibility of studying it, only the practicality. Are you suggesting that god only answers prayers once every thousand years?

Also:
No one knows when and how often God answers a prayer positively.
Many prayers may be ansered negatively and you would never know.

Irrelevant

If science can’t give you an absolute answer than you should not put your FAITH in it.

Following evidence is not faith. Now you’re just being silly. You shouldn’t put your faith in anything that claims to have absolute answers. No one has absolute answers. People who claim to have absolute answers are just liars.

I proved my point some prayers are answered positively and some are answered negatively.

Refresh my memory. What’s your proof that some prayers are answered positively?