Evil

[MindOverMatter2]

Why didn’t you refute the question rather than attack my use of biblical symbolism?

Because your argument only had power in that respect. Otherwise, it is a natural aspect of love to respect freewill, and there is nothing wrong with creating people who have freedom. I expect people to use their freedom and have the possibility of deviating from Gods plan. That is good; not an evil. That to me is not a problem.

 

[dusza]

Your point has been unjustly neglected! If God hadn’t created anyone there would be no evil. Why then did He? Because it would be evil not to create beings who cause evil simply because some cause evil when it is outweighed by the goodness and love of others.

Predestination suggests that our destiny is determined by God whereas in fact it is only permitted! Providence is a more accurate and less misleading term because it means our destiny is foreseen by God but chosen by us.

Thank you. Duly noted.

 

[dusza]

Because your argument only had power in that respect. Otherwise, it is a natural aspect of love to respect freewill, and there is nothing wrong with creating people who have freedom. I expect people to use their freedom and have the possibility of deviating from Gods plan. That is good; not an evil. That to me is not a problem.

I don’t disagree with your points. I was playing a devil’s advocate and expected rebuttals, but your initial reaction was a bit out of the left field. I really don’t see how one can discuss evil on a Catholic forum without bringing up the biblical accounts in Genesis.

 

[MindOverMatter2]

I really don’t see how one can discuss evil on a Catholic forum without bringing up the biblical accounts in Genesis.

The problem is the way you presented your argument. You gave the false impression that your interpretation is a core unchallengeable theology of the catholic faith; is representative or core Catholic teaching. For example, while some certainly think that the world is six thousand years old and are free to do so, it would be a mistake to claim that the Catholic Church teaches that the world is six thousand years old. That would be a lie, and it would be a shame if an atheist or Christian rejected the Catholic church based upon your unreasonable interpretation of scripture.

If your interpretation is not necessary, then it hardly needs to be brought up in a debate about evil unless you hold to a literal interpretation.

I am not a literalist in regards to your story of Adam and eve and the creation. That is why i poo pooed your argument.

 

[dusza]

The problem is the way you presented your argument. You gave the false impression that your interpretation is a core unchallengeable theology of the catholic faith; is representative or core Catholic teaching. For example, while some certainly think that the world is six thousand years old and are free to do so, it would be a mistake to claim that the Catholic Church teaches that the world is six thousand years old. That would be a lie, and it would be a shame if an atheist or Christian rejected the Catholic church based upon your unreasonable interpretation of scripture.

If your interpretation is not necessary, then it hardly needs to be brought up in a debate about evil unless you hold to a literal interpretation.

I am not a literalist in regards to your story of Adam and eve and the creation. That is why i poo pooed your argument.

I didn’t give a false impression, you got a false impression. I’m not a strict literalist either, although the Church does teach that Adam and Even were real people. Genesis is the Word of God, which was revealed to us essentially to explain why we’re so miserable and why there’s evil and how we are redeemed. Why wouldn’t I bring it up in a discussion about evil on a Catholic forum?

If you want to convince an atheist, don’t go playing on his playground. Pray that God’s grace brings him to yours instead.

 

[MindOverMatter2]

Why wouldn’t I bring it up in a discussion about evil on a Catholic forum?
.

You should only bring up the core teachings of the Church; meaning those teachings which are considered unchangeable. Anything else is besides the point and is likely to lead to confusion.

You clearly asked why God put the “tree of knowledge of good and evil” in the garden. This is clearly pandering to a literalist interpretation. And the fact that you would bring it up clearly implies that you think this to be Catholic teaching and intend other people to think so as well. And if you are going to bring it up, why shouldn’t i challenge it if i think its wrong?

Correct me if i am wrong.

 

[aicirt]

Do you mean to say that Satan is the originator of evil? I think source is a bit of a strong word as it would suggest that evil is an objective attribute of Satan’s nature; which it is not.

I believe evil exists in this world.The deeds committed are so horrific, I find it difficult to believe those thoughts, before they become deeds, actually orginate in the mind of man.

Satan’s job is to tempt man to committ sin and lose his soul. He encourages evil. And I think he designs evil.

 

[Lisa44]

…

Predestination suggests that our destiny is determined by God whereas in fact it is only permitted! Providence is a more accurate and less misleading term because it means our destiny is foreseen by God but chosen by us.

I’ve been around in circles on this before, but would you kindly explain how God’s knowledge of what we will do, does not mean we will do it?

Is Satan ultimately responsible for the wrongs people commit, are they entirely due to human failure, or something else?

Ask any clarifications as we go along.

I would say its a combination of spiritual forces, our human frailty, and life circumstances beyond our control.

 

[karebear92]

I’ve been around in circles on this before, but would you kindly explain how God’s knowledge of what we will do, does not mean we will do it?

God is outside of time. He is beyond it. He creates us in the moment he created us.

One way of demonstrating this is He can apply prayers from the future to the past.

It is a mystery for us to conceptualize what it is to be outside of time, but I believe the basic understanding is that since God is outside of time, He eternally is in the moment of creating us, but is also eternally in the moment of our life, while still being eternally (assuming we go to heaven) with us in heaven.

Its like this: He gives us free will to do it, and since we live in time and He lives outside of it, he knows our eternal fate, so He knows what we will do, but we still have the free will do to what we choose.

I didn’t do a very good job explaining it.

 

[tonyrey]

Predestination

Foreknowledge doesn’t imply compulsion or causality. Very often we can predict what people will do without influencing them at all. Antony Flew recognised this fact even when he was an atheist.

 

[Lisa44]

Foreknowledge doesn’t imply compulsion or causality. Very often we can predict what people will do without influencing them at all. Antony Flew recognised this fact even when he was an atheist.

Hi guys, thanks for answering. I am asking how this happens.

We are not talking about a psychic saying you will get married next year, and we are not talking about a person seeing two cars headed for a collision. Human knowledge is based on predicting the future from the present. But God’s knowledge is absolute. He doesn’t predict what the future will be based on the present, the future is already KNOWN by him.

No one has been able to explain to me how, if God knows something will happen, it could possibly not happen. What you are saying is that either God does not know the future, or he does know the future but yet somehow, (this is the unexplained part I am asking about) we can do something other than what God knows we will do.

I’ll use the example of Peter when God told him he would deny him three times.