EVOLUTION: A Catholic Solution?

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I find what he says to be quite strange also. Sadly, our theological institutions still have some left-overs from the late 1960s on the faculty. I had hoped that they’d all be gone by now, but every once in a while we can hear their confused ramblings and feeble attempts to get some attention.
reggieM, have you ever studied in a seminary? Have you taught in a university? Have you ever participated in a major theological conference?

If you had done the above, you would realize that the world of theological scholarship is not akin to a static museum. As our understanding of the world changes, so the Church’s interpretation of scripture and her articulation of theology changes along with it. St. Thomas constructed his theology in light of the Aristotelian Ptolemaic world view. John Donne – who lived at the cusp of the “new philosophy” – was not yet convinced of heliocentric cosmology, but his eschatology reflects the growing doubts about the medieval view of the astronomical empyrean serving as the literal abode of God.

The accelerating pace of scientific discoveries – in geological strata, in Cuvier’s fossils from the Paris basin that suggested past extinctions, in biology and biogeography, and in the literary history of the Bible – all these contributed to major revisions in world perspective.

For theology to remain nailed to a static, predynamical and an-historical world view would have been fatal, leaving Catholicism in an increasingly irrelevant pre-scientific ghetto. Thank goodness we have theologians courageous and insightful enough to help guide us into the future!

StAnastasia
 
I doubt if I would be desperate enough to marry Mr. M. Link. 😛
Thinking as we do today, it’s easy to doubt that, of course. What we might have done had we lived way back then . . . who knows? (Other than God.)

Remember – you would have looked pretty much as he did. I’m sure you would have found each other perfectly charming.
The line below (which follows the one quoted in your post) makes it clear that original sin, which proceede from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam is passed on to all through generation.
I hope no one thinks I dispute that. I left it out only in the interest of keeping the passage focused on the sense in which he used the term ‘polygenism’.
The last paragraph in post 470 by RegieM says it all.
I’ve seen a lot to admire in his posts, but the danger with that paragraph is that it implies that we shouldn’t ask questions. Surely it’s the attitude with which we ask that makes the difference. After all, Zechariah and Mary asked very similar questions of their angelic visitors, but their hearts were very different.
 
[Thanks for your concern… I had some questions and needed answers to get back on the straight road. As for me, I don’t underestimate Alec’s abilities. Nor do I underestimate anyone else’s abilities.
You’re welcome, grannymh. I hope you find the Delio and Deane-Drummond books helpful. Two other excellent books that I’m using for teaching are Josef Zycinski, *God and Evolution *(2002) and Science and Religion and Culture in the Jesuit Tradition, ed. Jose Mario Francisco, S.J. Zycinski is Archbishop of Lublin in Poland, a city where Pope John Paul II used to teach.

StAnastasia
[/quote]
 
You’re welcome, grannymh. I hope you find the Delio and Deane-Drummond books helpful. Two other excellent books that I’m using for teaching are Josef Zycinski, *God and Evolution *(2002) and Science and Religion and Culture in the Jesuit Tradition, ed. Jose Mario Francisco, S.J. Zycinski is Archbishop of Lublin in Poland, a city where Pope John Paul II used to teach.

StAnastasia
How does he handle Adam and Eve, all descended from Adam and Eve, bodily immortality, preternatural gifts, infused knowledge and Eve coming from Adam in this book?
 
Literally? Can you cite some sources?
This will take you through with citations.

DID WOMAN EVOLVE FROM THE BEASTS?
A DEFENSE OF TRADITIONAL CATHOLIC DOCTRINE


Introduction
The purpose of this paper is to defend a doctrinal thesis which is quite simple, very clear, very classical, but now very unpopular—not to say openly scorned and derided. I will argue that the formation by God of the first woman, Eve, from the side of the sleeping, adult Adam had, by the year 1880, been proposed infallibly by the universal and ordinary Magisterium of the Catholic Church as literally and historically true; so that this must forever remain a doctrine to be held definitively (at least) by all the faithful. I would express the thesis in Latin as follows:
Definitive tenendum est mulierem primam vere et historice formatam esse a Deo e latere primi viri dormientis.

*more…
*
 
reggieM, have you ever studied in a seminary? Have you taught in a university? Have you ever participated in a major theological conference?

If you had done the above, you would realize that the world of theological scholarship is not akin to a static museum. As our understanding of the world changes, so the Church’s interpretation of scripture and her articulation of theology changes along with it. St. Thomas constructed his theology in light of the Aristotelian Ptolemaic world view. John Donne – who lived at the cusp of the “new philosophy” – was not yet convinced of heliocentric cosmology, but his eschatology reflects the growing doubts about the medieval view of the astronomical empyrean serving as the literal abode of God.

The accelerating pace of scientific discoveries – in geological strata, in Cuvier’s fossils from the Paris basin that suggested past extinctions, in biology and biogeography, and in the literary history of the Bible – all these contributed to major revisions in world perspective.

For theology to remain nailed to a static, predynamical and an-historical world view would have been fatal, leaving Catholicism in an increasingly irrelevant pre-scientific ghetto. Thank goodness we have theologians courageous and insightful enough to help guide us into the future!

StAnastasia
“guide us into the future!” A faith statement. Too many suffer from the calendar myth. The idea that living in “modern” times confers upon them some special power or ability. This is a delusion. Did anyone become smarter or better or wiser because the calendar changed from the 20th to the 21st Century? The answer is no.

Then there is the false placement of the Church into a modernist framework. On the one hand, the Church is only about faith and morals, on the other, it needs to embrace science.

What do modernists want it to embrace exactly?

Evolutionary Psychology, which offers the idea that your genes, not you, are in control. The human person is in his present state solely due to random mutations and natural selection. An ambulatory bag of chemicals whose primary purpose is to reproduce. And whose genes alone will bring him to greater and greater stages of consciousness.

The Bible was just man’s primitve attempts to articulate this.

Those who believe this are much closer to atheist Christopher Hitchens who gives religion’s only advantage as having come before science. Who tells us: If we knew then what we now know, would we ever have become religious?

The uncovering of new information about the interdependent complexities of the cell raises new questions that, by secular faith alone, they believe science will answer.

And what of God. The lonely bystander who got the ball rolling and allowed nature to do what “it” wanted? Where does he fit into all this? At present, the answer is nowhere. Science, confident that under layers and layers of “primitive” thoughts, it will peel away the veil of the Bible and reveal that a bunch of primitive people wrote a book. God, if it exists, is truly unknowable, but that, to them is not the important, and more importantly, exciting part. No, they get to witness the uncovering of the true “truth” of the Bible.

So while adrenaline flows through their veins and they admire their own cleverness, the living God lives on. He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. The Living Christ will come again to judge the living and the dead. But for them, this, if it’s believed at all, is far off. Yet the Bible tells us, fool, tonight your soul will be required of you.

At one time, science offered news and information but today it is corrupt. There is money to be made in scientifically convincing people to live unGodly lives. Those who want to spread immorality are looking to science to provide them justification or any excuse.

To my brothers and sisters in Christ -

Science is not the new circumcision. It is not required to enter God’s house or to know His Son. Read your Catechism to know what is required of you.

Peace,
Ed
 
How does he handle Adam and Eve, all descended from Adam and Eve, bodily immortality, preternatural gifts, infused knowledge and Eve coming from Adam in this book?
That’s a lot to ask. Get the book and read it.
 
reggieM, have you ever studied in a seminary? Have you taught in a university? Have you ever participated in a major theological conference?
I’ve seen the products of such institutions in theologians like Kung, Schillebeeckx, Curran, Boff, Balasuriya, Gaillot, Drewermann, McNeill, Fox, Gutiérrez … all condemned by the Holy See for false teaching.
If you had done the above, you would realize that the world of theological scholarship is not akin to a static museum.
Liberal theologians live in a world where Satan does not exist (and so he has convinced them well) so they are blind to their own errors and cannot discern heresies or attacks from the evil one. Thus, destruction of the Faith is believed to be “progress”. By their fruits we can know them. They emptied seminaries. Traditional Catholics are filling them again. They destroyed our theological culture, God is restoring it again through a new, faithful generation. Catholic Answers is a perfect example. It’s booming with success and winning many converts (and supporting numerous like-minded associations). There is nothing like this in the “liberal Catholic” world because that world is dying off (although they should be triumphing with Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi as national icons of dissenting-Catholicism). We can look at EWTN as another example. God is giving His grace to those who are faithful to the Magisterium and withdrawing it from those who are filled with ridicule and dissent. Pope Benedict himself should be evidence enough of where the Church is “guiding us towards the future”.
For theology to remain nailed to a static, predynamical and an-historical world view
Catholic theology will always remain nailed to the Cross with her Savior. False-Catholics would make His death itself merely a symbol. Without the Cross, there is no resurrection – and that is dissenting Catholicism. A pseudo-religion with no hope.
Thank goodness we have theologians courageous and insightful enough to help guide us into the future!
Indeed – moving us to a future of fidelity and union with the Magisterium and away from the nonsense of Catholic Darwinism.

This is a good article from a few years ago on Catholic Scriptural scholarship (things have gotten a little better since then and will continue to do so):

christianorder.com/features/features_2002/features_mar02.html

The premise on which my paper is based is that over the last thirty-five years orthodox Catholic Scripture scholarship has not simply lost a major battle; it has lost an entire war. It has been devastated, and almost completely wiped off the map. Dissident, rationalistic, neo-modernist biblical scholarship has been firmly in control ever since the 1960s in nearly all the major Catholic institutions of higher learning, and is clearly insinuated (although not openly spelt out) even in recent documents of the Pontifical Biblical Commission, that august body of twenty or so top-ranking exegetes [Scripture scholars] from round the world which advises the Church’s magisterium on biblical matters.
 
Dear rad314,

Your comment about charming Mr. M. Link tickled me. My vivid imagination went into high gear. I’m going to put my Pepsi down and get serious.
I hope no one thinks I dispute that. I left it out only in the interest of keeping the passage focused on the sense in which he used the term ‘polygenism’.
 
This is where I have trouble with your post 469. I’m curious about what happened to the rest of the 10,000 physically human organisms having merely mortal souls (which, I assume, would be the animating principle as in other animals) after two of them were endowed with immortal souls.
That’s assuming only two were so endowed.
 
I’ve seen the products of such institutions in theologians like Kung, Schillebeeckx, Curran, Boff, Balasuriya, Gaillot, Drewermann, McNeill, Fox, Gutiérrez … all condemned by the Holy See for false teaching.

Liberal theologians live in a world where Satan does not exist (and so he has convinced them well) so they are blind to their own errors and cannot discern heresies or attacks from the evil one. Thus, destruction of the Faith is believed to be “progress”. By their fruits we can know them. They emptied seminaries. Traditional Catholics are filling them again. They destroyed our theological culture, God is restoring it again through a new, faithful generation. Catholic Answers is a perfect example. It’s booming with success and winning many converts (and supporting numerous like-minded associations). There is nothing like this in the “liberal Catholic” world because that world is dying off (although they should be triumphing with Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi as national icons of dissenting-Catholicism). We can look at EWTN as another example. God is giving His grace to those who are faithful to the Magisterium and withdrawing it from those who are filled with ridicule and dissent. Pope Benedict himself should be evidence enough of where the Church is “guiding us towards the future”.

Catholic theology will always remain nailed to the Cross with her Savior. False-Catholics would make His death itself merely a symbol. Without the Cross, there is no resurrection – and that is dissenting Catholicism. A pseudo-religion with no hope.

Indeed – moving us to a future of fidelity and union with the Magisterium and away from the nonsense of Catholic Darwinism.

This is a good article from a few years ago on Catholic Scriptural scholarship (things have gotten a little better since then and will continue to do so):

christianorder.com/features/features_2002/features_mar02.html

The premise on which my paper is based is that over the last thirty-five years orthodox Catholic Scripture scholarship has not simply lost a major battle; it has lost an entire war. It has been devastated, and almost completely wiped off the map. Dissident, rationalistic, neo-modernist biblical scholarship has been firmly in control ever since the 1960s in nearly all the major Catholic institutions of higher learning, and is clearly insinuated (although not openly spelt out) even in recent documents of the Pontifical Biblical Commission, that august body of twenty or so top-ranking exegetes [Scripture scholars] from round the world which advises the Church’s magisterium on biblical matters.
Many thanks, reggie, for shedding additional light on the period of recent attack on the Church. The 1960s was the period from where I watched my Catholic community attacked from within and without by secular forces driven, they claimed, by science. After 1967, the science of Kinsey and birth control was followed by the science of abortion and pornography and women’s liberation and divorce and detachment from a prayer life which was replaced by a sex life. All the while, “experts” guided those too gullible and vulnerable, and too many believed a lie. We were lied to.

The current deception revolves around a theory that claims man is nothing special, just another animal and is ruled primarily by his genetic material. The naturalist-materialist mind-set will not be overcome just by words but by humble devotion to the Truth and the gentle life of devotion buttressed by a right conscience guided by the light of that Truth.

Our battle is not against flesh and blood but against powers and principalities and evil in high places.

Peace and God Bless,
Ed
 
Indeed – moving us to a future of fidelity and union with the Magisterium and away from the nonsense of Catholic Darwinism.
I’ve never heard of “Catholic Darwinism.” But I think I’ve also only heard of one Catholic college forbidding the teaching of evolution in biology courses. It’s not going anywhere, any more than gravity or cell theory or plate tectonics. Evolution seems by all accounts to be the way the natural world works, and, like everyone else, Catholics either learn about it, or consign themselves to the insignificance of a cultural backwater, providing ample ammunition for Dawkinsian atheists.

Thirteen years after Newton published his theory of gravitation in the Principia mathematica, Fr. John Sergeant (an English recusant missionary priest) vehemently rejected the existence of a vacuum, declaring that God would not permit one to exist. Guess what? Three hundred years later, Sergeant’s Transnatural Philosophy is read by few, and physics courses in Catholic institutions admit the existence of a vacuum!

StAnastasia

 
This is where I have trouble with your post 469. I’m curious about what happened to the rest of the 10,000 physically human organisms having merely mortal souls (which, I assume, would be the animating principle as in other animals) after two of them were endowed with immortal souls.

It is clear from Humani Generis, that Adam, as an individual, committed an actual sin and passed it along to all as “original sin”. Coupling that with the previous prohibition against polygenism, the idea of 9,998 others having descendents by whatever means would not preserve the doctrine of original sin.
Sorry, granny. I must not have been clear.

Adam and Eve had children. Those children had immortal souls and original sin; they were ‘true men’, direct descendants of Adam. I’m speculating that they bred with physically human organisms with mortal souls (PHOMS, if you will). Their children also had immortal souls and original sin; they also were ‘true men’, direct descendants of Adam. Assume that those ‘true men’ also bred with PHOMS, producing another generation of ‘true men’, direct descendants of Adam, with immortal souls and original sin. (I find it amusing that having an immortal soul is a dominant trait.) Notice that when the ‘true men’ – let’s call them ‘human beings’ – started breeding exclusively among themselves, there’s no question of incest. Obviously, having an immortal soul has higher survival value than having a mortal soul, so human beings prevailed and PHOMS became extinct. (That’s meant as humor and indicates that I have no idea why there are no more PHOMS, but I’m sure God does.)

Do you see how we’re covered on all three hands?
 
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