Evolution and Creationism

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Cave fish and many parasites are obvious examples of both evolution and of loss of function. You are wasting your efforts on irrelevancies here.
I don’t think so. The philosophy of life makes discrete categories based on functions. Vegetative, animal and human beings are different in functionality. The clarity of the classic divisions does not have the fogginess of the present tree of life presentation of species. Have you encountered a walking plant? Or an animal that can read and write?
 
All your quoted sources agree that speciation, i.e. macroevolution, has occurred. They disagree on whether it was sympatric speciation or allopatric speciation. Your quoted sources show your claim that macroevolution has not been observed is incorrect.
 
Have you encountered a walking plant? Or an animal that can read and write?
I have encountered many moving plants: sunflowers, mimosas and flowering plants that close their petals at night. Some unicellular plants can propel themselves through the water, though they do not walk. I know an animal that can read digits: Chimp vs Human. I have seen reports of chimps (and a Gorilla?) learning sign language.

Your “classic divisions” are a generally useful abstraction. They are a simplification of reality, but they are not reality. There are often exceptions to such generalities, and biology is very prone to such exceptions.
 
Pope Pius XII:
  1. To return, however, to the new opinions mentioned above, a number of things are proposed or suggested by some even against the divine authorship of Sacred Scripture. For some go so far as to pervert the sense of the Vatican Council’s definition that God is the author of Holy Scripture, and they put forward again the opinion, already often condemned, which asserts that immunity from error extends only to those parts of the Bible that treat of God or of moral and religious matters.
 
It certainly does and has on multiple occasions. References on request.
 
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Hume:
It’s the apologetics forum.

Wouldn’t be very interesting if it was just a bunch of guys saying “yep”, would it?
No, it wouldn’t, but, that you keep coming back is an indication that you’re looking for something, proof maybe? Otherwise, your coming back makes no logical sense. So, again, wonderful!
Sure,

If you guys finally found some convincing evidence for your religion, I’m confident I’d see it posted here.
 
They disagree on whether it was sympatric speciation or allopatric speciation. Your quoted sources show your claim that macroevolution has not been observed is incorrect.
Which is all that is required to refute your citation as evidencing a consensus of scientists in the field are in agreement.
Your purported observations of macroevolution are irrational and not supported by a consensus in the scientific community.
As what you provided does not show scientific consensus of an alleged macroevolution evidence, do you have another source that alleges scientific consensus on an observation of a macroevolution event?

And would you comment on the source which refutes your own definition for lacewing speciation?
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1558-5646.1985.tb00441.x
The fact that the two species interbreed fairly freely in the laboratory makes this approach possible.
 
I have encountered many moving plants: sunflowers, mimosas and flowering plants that close their petals at night. Some unicellular plants can propel themselves through the water, though they do not walk.
Walking is locomotion and not the same as moving. Only animals and humans have this function.

Locomotion, i.e., displacement through an environment, is one of the most significant behaviors in the Animalia Kingdom.
I know an animal that can read digits: Chimp vs Human. I have seen reports of chimps (and a Gorilla?) learning sign language.
In nature? No. After interacting with humans, possibly by mimicing. But the ability to read and write, no. The use of symbols to communicate ideas is the ability to abstract and is uniquely human function.
Your “classic divisions” are a generally useful abstraction. They are a simplification of reality, but they are not reality. There are often exceptions to such generalities, and biology is very prone to such exceptions.
How are the functional differences among plants, animals and humans not reality? What other exceptions do you claim?
 
Which is all that is required to refute your citation as evidencing a consensus of scientists in the field are in agreement.
Really? Scientists agree on the main point and disagree on details. Therefore the main point is wrong. No I don’t think so.

Protestants and Catholics agree that Jesus is the Messiah, but they disagree on details. So, by your argument, Jesus is not the Messiah because of disagreement on details. No, I don’t think so either.
Walking is locomotion and not the same as moving. Only animals and humans have this function.
So fish are not animals because they swim rather than walk? Whales are not animals because they swim rather than walk? You really need to think through this stuff before you post it. Jellyfish and sponges are animals; have you ever seen either walking?
How are the functional differences among plants, animals and humans not reality? What other exceptions do you claim?
How is a sponge (an animal) functionally different from a plant?
 
You have conceded that macroevolution occurs.
Yes, if we want to define it as being very limited to lineage splitting and by breaking genes which lead to less fitness and ultimate extinction . I am ok with it under this definition. It is very far from what was being pitched.
 
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rossum:
There are no such studies. Macroevolution, the evolution of a new species, has been observed. It is an established fact; no assumption required.
Let’s look at the first study which @Freddy proposed as supporting the truth of macroevolution, cladistics.

https://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/phylogenetics_05
Assumptions
There are three basic assumptions in cladistics:
1. Change in characteristics occurs in lineages over time.
2. Any group of organisms is related by descent from a common ancestor.
3. There is a bifurcating, or branching, pattern of lineage-splitting.
Your purported observations of macroevolution are irrational and not supported by a consensus in the scientific community.
Do you have exactly the same characteristics as your great grandparents? No. So there are changes in characteristics which occur in lineages over time.

Are you and your siblings related to your great grandfather? Yes. So your ‘group of organisms’ is related by descent from a common ancestor.

Does your family tree split to show different lineages? Yes. So there is a bifurcating, or branching, pattern of lineage-splitting.

It’s not exactly pushing the boundaries of what could be scientifically accepted if it’s even relevant to you and your family. Is it?
 
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rossum:
Macroevolution, the evolution of a new species, has been observed. It is an established fact; no assumption required.
Rewrite - Macroevolution, the lineage splitting with loss, of a new species, has been observed. It is an established fact; no assumption required.
We’re still waiting for your explanation of why it is that not being able to mate with chimps is a loss.
 
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Communion and Stewardship:

But it is important to note that, according to the Catholic understanding of divine causality, true contingency in the created order is not incompatible with a purposeful divine providence. Divine causality and created causality radically differ in kind and not only in degree. Thus, even the outcome of a truly contingent natural process can nonetheless fall within God’s providential plan for creation. According to St. Thomas Aquinas: “The effect of divine providence is not only that things should happen somehow, but that they should happen either by necessity or by contingency. Therefore, whatsoever divine providence ordains to happen infallibly and of necessity happens infallibly and of necessity; and that happens from contingency, which the divine providence conceives to happen from contingency” ( Summa theologiae, I, 22,4 ad 1). In the Catholic perspective, neo-Darwinians who adduce random genetic variation and natural selection as evidence that the process of evolution is absolutely unguided are straying beyond what can be demonstrated by science. Divine causality can be active in a process that is both contingent and guided. Any evolutionary mechanism that is contingent can only be contingent because God made it so. An unguided evolutionary process – one that falls outside the bounds of divine providence – simply cannot exist because “the causality of God, Who is the first agent, extends to all being, not only as to constituent principles of species, but also as to the individualizing principles…It necessarily follows that all things, inasmuch as they participate in existence, must likewise be subject to divine providence” ( Summa theologiae I, 22, 2).
 
We’re still waiting for your explanation of why it is that not being able to mate with chimps is a loss.
Indeed. We have lost the ability to mate with chimps, but have gained the ability to mate with other humans. Overall buffalo rates that as a loss. Colour me puzzled.
 
If you may, could you please tell me where the book “Communion and Stewardship” comes from? Eg author? Or the Vatican Congregation who published it? I am nit familiar with it.
 
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