Evolution and Creationism

[Noose001]

Did you not read the source I provided? I’m curious as to what problems you had with it, it looked pretty solid to me.

Everything looks solid until it is critiqued.

Genetics does not support evolution because evolution is only superficial. Whereas evolution supposes genetic accidents, accidents in genetics are very detrimental, the reason we have layers of genetic proof reading to ensure that everything is as planned.

Dating methods- i have a problem with what you consider as ‘Time’.

 

[ImQuiet]

Everything looks solid until it is critiqued.

Genetics does not support evolution because evolution is only superficial. Whereas evolution supposes genetic accidents, accidents in genetics are very detrimental, the reason we have layers of genetic proof reading to ensure that everything is as planned.

What? Do you mean genetic mutations? Because those definitely exist, beneficial or otherwise.

Dating methods- i have a problem with what you consider as ‘Time’.

Enlighten me then. Because I have no clue what you are talking about.

 

[Freddy]

ImQuiet:

Did you not read the source I provided? I’m curious as to what problems you had with it, it looked pretty solid to me.

Everything looks solid until it is critiqued.

Whereas evolution supposes genetic accidents, accidents in genetics are very detrimental…

That should read ‘mostly detrimental’. Very rarely are single occurences ‘very detrimental’. And when they are the organism is removed from the gene pool.

And even positive occurences are relatively rare. But then, one doesn’t need many of them for the process to proceed as the organism remains in the gene pool and is ‘more fit’ for the environment in which it lives. And hence has a better chance of survival. And hence is better situated to pass on the slightly beneficial gene.

But this is Evolution 101. That it has to be explained at this basic level indicates more your level of understanding of the subject rather than the quality of your arguments against it.

And I eagerly look forward to your explanation of time to ImQuiet. Give me a few minutes to get some popcorn ready…

 

[Noose001]

What? Do you mean genetic mutations? Because those definitely exist, beneficial or otherwise.

They do especially if DNA proof reading fails and why do we have DNA proof reading in place, is it a result of natural selection?
We can not have structural redesign and functionality change through accidents. Example:

Change from a fin whose function is to propel an organism in water, to a limb whose function is for movement on land having in mind that the functionality is dependent on a number of coordinated systems namely; nervous, circulatory, skeletal, muscular e.t.c

Q. How does mutation work on all these systems without coordination?

Enlighten me then. Because I have no clue what you are talking about.

Time is not independent of consciousness, it is experiential.

 

[Freddy]

ImQuiet:

What? Do you mean genetic mutations? Because those definitely exist, beneficial or otherwise.

They do especially if DNA proof reading fails and why do we have DNA proof reading in place, is it a result of natural selection?
We can not have structural redesign and functionality change through accidents. Example:

Change from a fin whose function is to propel an organism in water, to a limb whose function is for movement on land having in mind that the functionality is dependent on a number of coordinated systems namely; nervous, circulatory, skeletal, muscular e.t.c

Q. How does mutation work on all these systems without coordination?

I guess it’s therefore impossible for my son to be taller than me. To become taller he’d need longer bones, more flesh, larger muscles, longer veins, an increase in the length of nerves, a better pulmonary and cardiac system etc etc.

Maybe you have an answer.

 

[Noose001]

That should read ‘mostly detrimental’. Very rarely are single occurences ‘very detrimental’. And when they are the organism is removed from the gene pool.

And even positive occurences are relatively rare. But then, one doesn’t need many of them for the process to proceed as the organism remains in the gene pool and is ‘more fit’ for the environment in which it lives. And hence has a better chance of survival. And hence is better situated to pass on the slightly beneficial gene.

But this is Evolution 101. That it has to be explained at this basic level indicates more your level of understanding of the subject rather than the quality of your arguments against it.

And I eagerly look forward to your explanation of time to ImQuiet. Give me a few minutes to get some popcorn ready…

DNA is coded information. I believe you understand how codes work. There are no beneficial changes or accidents to codes or information, any change means loss of information because information already indicates purpose.

 

[Noose001]

I guess it’s therefore impossible for my son to be taller than me. To become taller he’d need longer bones, more flesh, larger muscles, longer veins, an increase in the length of nerves, a better pulmonary and cardiac system etc etc.

Maybe you have an answer.

Do not conflate evolution and hereditary biology, one is real the one is not.

 

[ImQuiet]

Freddy:

I guess it’s therefore impossible for my son to be taller than me. To become taller he’d need longer bones, more flesh, larger muscles, longer veins, an increase in the length of nerves, a better pulmonary and cardiac system etc etc.

Maybe you have an answer.

Do not conflate evolution and hereditary biology, one is real the one is not.

What? But hereditary biology relies on what you have just said is impossible.

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

I guess it’s therefore impossible for my son to be taller than me. To become taller he’d need longer bones, more flesh, larger muscles, longer veins, an increase in the length of nerves, a better pulmonary and cardiac system etc etc.

Maybe you have an answer.

Do not conflate evolution and hereditary biology, one is real the one is not.

You have said that one aspect of an organism cannot change without other aspects of that organism changing to allow it. My son is taller than me. So we have one specific change that incorporates all the necessary associated changes to allow it.

So we have a 3% change in one generation.

Do not ‘conflate hereditary bilogy and evolution’? Good grief man, hereditary biology is the basis for evolution.

 

[Noose001]

What? But hereditary biology relies on what you have just said is impossible.

Hereditary biology has nothing to do with mutations or natural selection.

 

[Noose001]

You have said that one aspect of an organism cannot change without other aspects of that organism changing to allow it. My son is taller than me. So we have one specific change that incorporates all the necessary associated changes to allow it.

So we have a 3% change in one generation.

Do not ‘conflate hereditary bilogy and evolution’? Good grief man, hereditary biology is the basis for evolution.

Hereditary biology has nothing to do with mutations or natural selection. You can have twins, one short and the other very tall - means you have both genes in your chromosome and the chances of either one or both being expressed depends on the kind of genes their mother has.

The gene that codes for tallness comes a s full package of body plan not mutations on specific systems.

 

[Freddy]

ImQuiet:

What? But hereditary biology relies on what you have just said is impossible.

Hereditary biology has nothing to do with mutations or natural selection.

If you don’t know that evolution is actually natural selection and hereditary biology then I’m not sure you are suitably informed enough to hold a reasonable discussion. Perhaps you can tell us what you think evolution is.

 

[ImQuiet]

ImQuiet:

What? But hereditary biology relies on what you have just said is impossible.

Hereditary biology has nothing to do with mutations or natural selection.

Look, I’m not saying you have to be a scientist to participate in this thread(I’m definitely not one lol), but wouldn’t it help to have some high school biology under your belt? What exactly do you think evolution is?

 

[Noose001]

If you don’t know that evolution is actually natural selection and hereditary biology then I’m not sure you are suitably informed enough to hold a reasonable discussion. Perhaps you can tell us what you think evolution is.

You know the difference.
Do you believe that having a tall son is part of evolution?

 

[Noose001]

Look, I’m not saying you have to be a scientist to participate in this thread(I’m definitely not one lol), but wouldn’t it help to have some high school biology under your belt? What exactly do you think evolution is?

I’m in good hands finally.
Explain the genetic changes that happen during the shift from a fin to a limb

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

If you don’t know that evolution is actually natural selection and hereditary biology then I’m not sure you are suitably informed enough to hold a reasonable discussion. Perhaps you can tell us what you think evolution is.

You know the difference.
Do you believe that having a tall son is part of evolution?

I’m sorry, Noose. Your understanding of the process is not sufficient for this to be worthwhile. You really need to do some reading on the subject to know what it is you are actually arguing against.

 

[ImQuiet]

ImQuiet:

Look, I’m not saying you have to be a scientist to participate in this thread(I’m definitely not one lol), but wouldn’t it help to have some high school biology under your belt? What exactly do you think evolution is?

I’m in good hands finally.
Explain the genetic changes that happen during the shift from a fin to a limb

Quick and dirty explanation is a shift in bone structure. This article goes more depth on what exactly happens.

 

[ImQuiet]

Freddy:

If you don’t know that evolution is actually natural selection and hereditary biology then I’m not sure you are suitably informed enough to hold a reasonable discussion. Perhaps you can tell us what you think evolution is.

You know the difference.
Do you believe that having a tall son is part of evolution?

You should really brush up on biology my guy. You’re not making much sense.
MIT has some free courses. Maybe brush up on the fundamentals a bit and then come back, but as of right now you don’t really seem to understand the discussion here.

 

[Noose001]

Quick and dirty explanation is a shift in bone structure. This article goes more depth on what exactly happens.

The article says nothing more than the superficial ‘yes, a fin changed into a limb’ but it also says this;

“This fin-to-limb evolution is a crucial, yet so far unsolved, example of how morphological changes can dramatically alter life on Earth”. 1st Paragraph- why did you miss this.

 

[Noose001]

You should really brush up on biology my guy. You’re not making much sense.
MIT has some free courses. Maybe brush up on the fundamentals a bit and then come back, but as of right now you don’t really seem to understand the discussion here.

Just like i said, there’s no explanation of how genetic changes brings about changes in functionality apart from speculation that it does.

Now, if you have anything to say, down to the molecular level, this is the time.