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buffalo
Guest
Two theories are left standing. Acentrism and geocentrism. Both say the earth can be the center. I’ll take it.
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cassini
Guest
Granny, it was not I that brought up the subject, and it will not be you who dismisses Jimmy’s perfect analogy of Eve from the side of Adam. It was the Popes of 1616, 1633 and 1664, as head of the Church, who decided H was formal heresy. Individuals do not do such in the Catholic Church. It was Pope Urban Viii who confirmed the Church of Pope Paul V that had defined this interpretation and that the decree was immutable. It is all recorded. This was upheld throughout the history of the Scriptural interpretation, never challenged even in that infamous U-turn of 1741-1835, until the Copernican and evolutionists grannys took over dictating what Catholics can dismiss based on their fallible human reasoning. Among all the literal interpretations of Scripture this is one case where the Church did define the correct interpretation.
Now go back to your Eve from monkeys. Tell us granny, was Eve of Adam’s flesh, and must Catholics hold this, and if so how this came about in evolutionary terms?
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cassini
Guest
Jimmy, Everything you say above is theory, don’t you know that? If you want a G theory for all you say look up Sungenis. You cannot interpret Scripture based on theory, don’t you know that? Granny and others do, but I don’t and the Church doesn’t either. The Church spoke in 1616, end of story. Anything after that CONTRADICTS the Church. It doesn’t matter what 99,999% of Catholics today believe or think, you cannot change what the Church THOUGHT/TEACHES. You can deny this teaching, think up excuses till the cows come home, devise maths that PROVE the Church wrong, but you cannot change Church teaching. What it all boils down to is faith in the Church, in its divine guidance NEVER TO GET ITS TEACHING WRONG. Once you have this faith then you begin to see all ‘scientific’ arguments against it are flawed, spurious fallible and remain only with pride, intellectual pride.
Let us not go down this road any further as all has been debated in other threads recently and it is too return to it. I’ll allow you one reply but please do not expect me to go again on the subject. You got it right in your original reference to G.
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grannymh
Guest
My dear friend,
may I respectfully remind you that when I write about Adam and Eve as the two sole parents of the human species, I refer to them as true, fully complete human beings. This means that their human nature is a profound, unique, wonderful unification of spirit/matter, rational/corporeal, body/soul.
Note to readers:
The reference at the bottom contains Catholic teaching regarding the first two human beings.
Note to Cassini:
Catholic teaching is that man and woman have been created, which is to say, willed by God. Please read the below reference, Section III. “Male and Female He Created Them” paragraphs 369 -373.
One of my favorite Catholic teachings is this. Man and woman are both with one and the same dignity “in the Image of God.” In their “being-man” and “being-woman,” they reflect the Creator’s wisdom and goodness.
Blessings,
granny
Basic Catholic teaching regarding Adam and Eve is found in the
Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition, ISBN: 1-57455-109-4
Paragraphs 355-421.
The good news of Jesus Christ follows in Paragraph 422, etc.
One can put the word paragraph and the number in the Catechism’s search bar in link www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm Entering topics, like Adam, is also very useful.
When you enter a paragraph number, like “paragraph 355”, and then click on the opening line, CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 355 you will see the following under the paragraph:
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rwillenborg
Guest
This is my understanding and I hope someone will correct me if I am wrong.
The Church REQUIRES the faithful to believe two components of the creation story as factually true.
The Church REQUIRES the faithful to believe two components of the creation story as factually true.
- ALL human beings are descended from a common set of parents. In other words, there was one Adam, one Eve, and we all go back to them. From what I understand, HOW exactly Adam came to be and HOW Eve came to be are up to you to decide.
- The whole universe and all of it contents were created ex nihilo by God and God alone.
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cassini
Guest
Galileo’s punishment followed him into death and after it. He had wanted to be buried in his family tomb in Santa Croce, but this was denied to him. When he died in 1642, Grand Duke Ferdinand II had ambitious plans for a magnificent tomb, as twin to the one designed by Vasari for Michelangelo, but Pope Urban VIII forbade this. In a letter to the Florentine Ambassador Niccolini the Pope said ‘it would be an evil example for the world if such honours were rendered to a man who had been brought before the Roman Inquisition for an opinion so false and erroneous; who had communicated it to many others, and who had given so great a scandal to Christendom.’ Galileo was buried next to the chapel of Saints Comas and Damian apart from his family without any notable ceremony and without any monument to his name.
Two years later Pope Urban VIII died. It took nearly forty years before Pierrozzi was allowed place an inscription over Galileo’s remains, and nearly a hundred before his bones – minus a finger (that is now placed in a phallic pose in line with Phallicism, the bond that unites all forms of idolatry into one great system that stems directly from sun worship, heliolatry or light worship, e.g., Mithraism) - were moved into the church of Santa Croce. In 1737, when the hermetic sun-centred doctrine was infiltrating into the minds of most and Galileo was perceived as having been correct all along, Pope Clement XII (1730-1740) finally authorised the erection of a monument to be built in his name. Even then this was subjected to correction in that nothing could be written on it that the Inquisition would disapprove of.
On April 28, 2010, the communist (atheists to a man) Chinese government donated a six-metre (20feet) tall bronze statue of Galileo to the Italian equally godless Italian government they named GALILEO GALILEI DIVINE MAN. The Italians decided to place it in the Basilica of St Mary of the Angels and Martyrs. No doubt this helioliter god Galileo would soon become the centre of attraction, an example of the stupid churchmen of 1616 and 1633 that all - even their predecessor popes - now accuse of not waiting for science to tell them how to interpret the Scriptures and replace devotion to all the saints that once held the stupid g interpretation of scripture.
Why have so few any Catholic ‘instinct’ left in the world. Isn’t it quite clear that this heresy has literally scored a huge victory over Christian thinking. And when we see popes behind it, let alone so called scientific experts in the laity, who says Satan is not the FATHER OF LIES, clever enough to fool even the elect as the same Scriptures predicted - unless granny has a different interpretation of this too.
After the Copernican con Jimmy, the evolution con was chicken feed. Soon Darwin will be in Rome alongside Galileo.
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cassini
Guest
Quote once again from Granny: **Oh dear. Here we go on how the visible Catholic Church operates in its realm of faith and morals. It was individuals, including high ranking clergy, who favored geocentricism. They were not speaking in the voice of God. One is free to be a geocentrist or a carpenter or not.
Now can we get back to the thread’s topic?**
I responded by asking a question on Eve, the subject of this thread:
**Now go back to your Eve from monkeys. Tell us granny, was Eve of Adam’s flesh, and must Catholics hold this, and if so how this came about in evolutionary terms? **
Note you COMPLETELY avoided the question. You come up with mumbo jumbo evolutionary theology, the bare minimum, leaving out much of traditional theology. This question is DIRECTLY LINKED WITH THE CONTINUITY OF THE HUMAN RACE FROM ADAM, NOT ADAM AND EVE) the First MAN is not the first MAN AND WOMAN. This has to do with the original sin and all that, the reason why GOD BECAME MAN, so it cannot be AVOIDED to restrict theology to fit in with evolutionary JUNK that does NOTHING FOR CATHOLIC THEOLOGY ONLY MAKE IT LOOK FLAWED AND INCOMPREHENSIBLE.
I knew you would come up with the new theology. Would you like another go granny, Does the Church teach that ALL mankind comes from Adam’s flesh or not?
Here is a hint:
23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
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grannymh
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jimmy
Guest
I know who sungenis is and really I don’t care. He only makes himself look like an idiot with his attempts to refute science.
The Church doesn’t teach Geocentrism, and if it does then it isn’t the Church because geocentrism is false. I give you the mathematical equation and all you can say is ‘that is theory’. That is not a refutation, it is a denial. There is no point continuing the discussion because your only argument is ‘it is theory’. If you are going to say a scientific theory is false and want your opinion to be respected you have to demonstrate how it is false and then offer a better theory. That is the way science works. Science doesn’t just deny.
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grannymh
Guest
Thank you for the reference which appears in Genesis 2: 18-25
This is a good place to remind readers that the Catholic Church, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, has the authority to define doctrines based on the Catholic Deposit of Faith. A doctrine goes beyond the words in Scripture to the Divine Revelation intended by God.
Of course, since day one, individuals have presented different meanings for different sections of Scripture. There can be a mile of posts devoted to the meaning of a half dozen words. Personally, I prefer to avoid scripture duels.
What I have found most helpful is to cross reference Scripture with actual teachings in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition. For example. I use the “Index of Citations” found on page 689 of the hard copy of the Catechism. Unfortunately, the link I use was not given permission to include this Index. This Index may be found on other links.
The first three Chapters of Genesis have served as references for about 75 paragraphs in the Catechism. The following citations are given for paragraphs 369 -373. These are listed separately in regard to each particular teaching.
Genesis 2: 7, 22; Genesis 2:18; Genesis 2: 19-20; Genesis 2:23; Genesis 2:24; and *Genesis 1:28. *
Genesis 2: 23 is found in paragraph 370. The key teaching is "Man discovers woman as another “I”, sharing the same humanity.”
Due to time constraints, I will answer the rest of post 46 later.
For now, may I briefly say that I didn’t completely avoid Cassini’s question in post 42; I completely avoided my personal answer.
Instead I presented the source of the Catholic answer in post 44.
Blessings,
granny
Human life is sacred from the moment of conception.
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Michael_Francis
Guest
What part of banned topic do you guys not understand?
This ban has been in place for some time now and consider this the last warning to all of you that if any of you violate the ban again you’re going to catch a nice “vacation” as per the following link.
Sticky: Temporary Ban on Evolution/Atheism Threads
This ban has been in place for some time now and consider this the last warning to all of you that if any of you violate the ban again you’re going to catch a nice “vacation” as per the following link.
Sticky: Temporary Ban on Evolution/Atheism Threads
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