Evolution/geology

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rheins2000:
Oh Please! Henke is regurgitating the same things he always does, and every evolutionist does. Although he leaves it to others to do it for him mostly, as far as this article goes.

Here is some excerpts from his article:

"The ‘research’ efforts of Austin and his colleagues and their ‘expertise’ in radiometric dating have been widely criticized."

Thats his proof. Yes, I repeat, his proof that the creation scientist was wrong in taking samples from the same rock and getting ridiculous variences in them…Uh Oh, WIDELY CRITICIZED MEANS TRUTH. THEN WE BETTER START CALCULATING HOW FAST THAT SUN IS MOVING AROUND THAT EARTH.
Henke’s article speaks for itself. My issue with you is that you have completely missed the main point of Henke’s criticism of Austin’s work. It is not at all how you characterized it above, but as quoted from the lead paragraph of Henke’s criticism of Austin (emphases mine).
AUSTIN FAILED TO PROPERLY USE THE K-Ar METHOD
Considering that the half-life of potassium-40 (40K) is fairly long (1,250 million years, McDougall and Harrison, 1999, p. 9), the K-Ar method cannot be used to date samples that are much younger than 6,000 years old (Dalrymple, 1991, p. 93). A few thousand years are not enough time for 40Ar to accumulate in a sample at high enough concentrations to be detected and quantified. Furthermore, many geochronology laboratories do not have the expensive state-of-the-art equipment to accurately measure argon in samples that are only a few million years old. Specifically, the laboratory personnel that performed the K-Ar dating for Austin et al. Specifically, personnel at Geochron Laboratories of Cambridge, Massachusetts, USA, performed the K-Ar dating for Austin et al. This laboratory no longer performs K-Ar dating. However, when they did, their website clearly stated in a footnote that their equipment could not accurately date rocks that are younger than about 2 million years old (“We cannot analyze samples expected to be younger than 2 M.Y.”; also see discussions by Bartelt et al.). With less advanced equipment, ‘memory effects’ can be a problem with very young samples (Dalrymple, 1969, p. 48). That is, very tiny amounts of argon contaminants from previous analyses may remain within the equipment, which precludes accurate dates for very young samples. For older samples, which contain more 40Ar, the contamination is diluted and has insignificant effects. Considering the statements at the Geochron website and the lowest age limitations of the K-Ar method, why did Austin submit a recently erupted dacite to this laboratory and expect a reliable answer??? Contrary to Swenson’s uninformed claim that ’ Dr Austin carefully designed the research to counter all possible objections’, Austin clearly demonstrated his inexperience in geochronology when he wasted a lot of money using the K-Ar method on the wrong type of samples.
I am left to conclude that
(a) you do not understand this material, or
(b) you do not want to understand this material.

To my question
Originally Posted by zian
Were you there?
you replied,
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rheins2000:
Exactly. Now you’re understanding. I knew it wouldnt take long
As numerous examples in this thread indicate, sarcasm is completely lost on you.
 
Rheins2000 << If anyone really wants to learn…and not be indocrinated…look at both sides of the issue…The creationist side, of which many have never even heard of, is best put forth by these websites:

www.creationism.org
www.nwcreation.net
www.icr.org
www.answersingenesis.org
and the creationWiki site. >>

And if anyone really wants to learn about Catholicism, and not be indoctrinated by Catholicism, look at both sides of the issue. To really learn Catholicism, of which many have never even seen, smelled, nor heard of, it is best put forth by these websites:

www.CHICK.com
www.AOMIN.org
www.NTRMIN.org
www.TheBereanCall.org
www.GNFC.org
www.Pro-Gospel.org
biblebelievers.net/Romanism/kjcroman.htm
wayoflife.org/fbns/fbns-index/rccfbns.htm

And anyone who is REALLY interested in Catholicism make sure you stay the hell away from www.catholic.com and www.newadvent.org and www.ewtn.com and www.vatican.va since those sites are nothing but Catholic propaganda.

I thought I was taking the month of February off. 😃 👍

Phil P
 
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rheins2000:
O.K., I’ll play your game…let me guess what you are trying to say…
And I’m quite sure, the age of the bacterial spores is what you are trying to ascertain using evaporites…obviously, this has been addressed, and your assumptions and neglections are once again your downfall…
I am not interested in bacterial spores. I am specifically asking how evaporite deposits can be explained by a global flood.

See if you can follow this. You have claimed that coal and other sedimentary rocks are products of a global flood. My specific question to you is how were evaporites formed during a global flood? As your wikipedia search showed you, evaporites are produced when concentrations of soluble salts reach the saturation point in water through evaporation (hence the term “evaporite”). For these types of rock to form, the flood water must be evaporating. That in and of itself is not a problem for a global flood, because the flood waters had to go somewhere. The problem is that evaporites are found both throughout the geologic column. In other words, evaporites are found in muliple layers and are not found only at the surface or near surface as would be necessary if sedimentary rocks were the product of a global flood. Evaporites occur both shallower and deeper than sandstone layers.

If the sandstone came from the flood, is it your position that there was more than one flood? If so, where in the Bible is this mentioned? If not, how do you explain evaporites?

You have basically ignored eolian deposits. Have you checked wikipedia for those? (For those who may be following this discussion but don’t know, eolian deposits are wind-blown deposits. Most commonly, these would take the form of sand dunes.) Eolian deposits can be found throughout the world. At what point did the global flood dry up long enough for sand dunes to form? Keep in mind, rheins, that these deposits, like evaporite deposits, can be found both above and below the types of sediments that you claim are the result of a global flood (ie sandstones, shales).

A good example of an eolian deposit is the Coconino sandstone in the Grand Canyon. It is underlain and overlain by deposits that contain marine fossils. How is that possible if these sediments were deposited by a global flood? There are animal tracks (footprints) in the Coconino. How do footprints form underwater?

Here is a link to a good explaination for why the Coconino is considered an eolian deposit (this link includes all the formations found in the Grand Canyon, so just scroll down to the Coconino). The author even touches on some creationist attempts to explain the Coconino.
geocities.com/earthhistory/grandb.htm

I am interested in how these two types of rock are explained by your flood theory. I know that some have guessed that the Coconino was formed in a matter of days by flood water. If you use that approach, please provide 1) the source of the sediment, 2) the driving force to move that volume of sand in a very short period of time and over a very large area, and 3) explain the tracks.

Peace

Tim
 
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rheins2000:
from talkorigins.org/indexcc/CC/CC361_1.html: Long time may not be necessary to form the coal itself, but it is necessary to account for the context where coal is found.

Your own evolutionists mecca tells you that a long time is not necessary…If I can’t convince you, maybe they can.
You haven’t given anything to convince me other than the fact that you don’t seem to understand that the author was refering to geologic time.
HAHA…still on this…I figured you wouldn’t give it up. Apparently you’re having trouble reading…I cant make it any more clear that I already have. Everyone else, please look at our previous posts and the definition of physics…you decide for yourself…Im done with this guy on this point. You can only talk to a log for so long.😃
Yes, everyone, please look at the previous posts on this issue. It is important because it shows that rheins is smarter when it comes to science than scientists are because he has a dictionary.:rolleyes:
I dont know why my model would have a heat problem. Maybe you dont know the creationist model for coal formation. Temperatures between 100 and 200C create the best conditions for coalification…I’m not saying that thousands of degrees are required…only the right conditions…a worldwide flood with massive volcanic activity and massive amounts of water, where organic deposits would be quickly covered over and left to steaming and heating by those conditions, would very easily produce all of the conditions needed for coal formation.
To get coal to form in 6 days takes much more heat than that. According to your source
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rheins2000:
RAPID COAL, GEORGE R. HILL Dean of College of Mines & Mineral Industries, on discovery of human artifacts in natural coal deposits: "A rather startling and serendipitous discovery resulted…These observations suggest that in their formation, high rank coals,…were probably subjected to high temperature at some stage in their history. A possible mechanism for formation of these high rank coals could have been a short time, rapid heating event." [Six Hours], Chemtech, May, 1972, p. 292.
Your own sources seem to invariably submit to the realization that massive or catastrophic events are the best, or at least most likely explanation of coal formation.
No they don’t. Please give me one of my sources that makes the claim that a massive or catastrophic event is the best or most likely explaination for coal formation.
Given the widespread presence of clay in coal,

How do you explain the absence of clay in most peat swamps(especially cold climate ones)?
That is an interesting statement. A according to the International Peat Society, this is the definition of peat:

International Peat Society said:
Peat is sedentarily accumulated material consisting of at least 30% (dry mass) of dead organic material.

That being the case, what is the rest of the dry mass? Silt? Clay? Sand? All the above?
How do you explain the presence of clay marker horizons dividing the coal basins in a single deposit?(Your theory relies on the clays and feldspars being washed in by floods, yet clay would not settle in the many highly acidic swamp conditions.
That actually fits perfectly into the model of coal being a flood-plain deposit.
You must realize that the theory(it is very obvious that you have never even read the theory if you’re asking questions like these) does not say that coal is only the result of sinking debris. Please read the 2 links I gave you and then comment on the creationist position.
I was only going with the explaination you gave. You said:
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rheins2000:
One explanation of these phenomena can then be that, because there was a great flood(which the bible spends a great deal curtailing…Im guessing you have just thrown out that evidence, even though it is the oldest explanation of human events we have) the deposition of highly organic material occured(say, every human and animal save a few dying at the same time and all depositing at the bottom of the flood.). Then, after the heavier objects(being humans, animals, plant material) settled to the bottom, the rapid settlement of stratified layers of sedimentation occurred.
Peace

Tim
 
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