Evolution In The Classroom

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Well clearly that arch didn’t have a proper keystone, no wonder it collapsed!
 
buffalo said:
IC simplified.
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Exactly. Now an example of naturally occurring IC:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

The existence of IC is not a bar to natural causes. A designer is not required.

This particular natural path to an IC system is known as “scaffolding”. With the scaffolding in place (solid rock) the system is not IC. Once the scaffolding is removed the system is IC.

rossum
 
LOL… I kept wondering what “IC” Stood for so I just made a joke. Irreducible complexity…
I guess it’s just one of those days. 😛
 
rossum said:
Exactly. Now an example of naturally occurring IC:

http://www.h4ppy.com/blog/uploaded_images/Natural Arch in Jebel Acacus-712183.JPG

The existence of IC is not a bar to natural causes. A designer is not required.

This particular natural path to an IC system is known as “scaffolding”. With the scaffolding in place (solid rock) the system is not IC. Once the scaffolding is removed the system is IC.

rossum
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Erosion caused the arch. Is there such an erosional process in biology?
 
buffalo said:
Erosion caused the arch. Is there such an erosional process in biology?
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Erosion is a natural process, so yes, there are natural processes in biology.

But whatever, comparing life to an arch is a *very *poor comparison anyway. You’re right that a man made arch is an example of irreducible complexity because you can’t remove one stone without it collapsing. However, that’s completely irrelevant to the discussion of biological lifeforms as it has no bearing on IC within that realm. Every single claim made by ID enthusiasts regarding irreducible complexity in biology has been squashed including the eye, flagellum, clotting agents, etc. At this point it’s more about you pointing to the unknown and playing God of the Gaps than about anything else.
 
liquidpele said:
Erosion is a natural process, so yes, there are natural processes in biology.

But whatever, comparing life to an arch is a *very *poor comparison anyway. You’re right that a man made arch is an example of irreducible complexity because you can’t remove one stone without it collapsing. However, that’s completely irrelevant to the discussion of biological lifeforms as it has no bearing on IC within that realm. Every single claim made by ID enthusiasts regarding irreducible complexity in biology has been squashed including the eye, flagellum, clotting agents, etc. At this point it’s more about you pointing to the unknown and playing God of the Gaps than about anything else.
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That is wrong - take away one of the 40 or so parts of the flagellum and it’s function falls apart, just like the arch. The same for the mousetrap. It doesn’t catch mice. Specified complexity is the design for a function.

Just remember - there will be always at least one gap or we would be God.
 
rossum said:
Exactly. Now an example of naturally occurring IC:

http://www.h4ppy.com/blog/uploaded_images/Natural Arch in Jebel Acacus-712183.JPG

The existence of IC is not a bar to natural causes. A designer is not required.

This particular natural path to an IC system is known as “scaffolding”. With the scaffolding in place (solid rock) the system is not IC. Once the scaffolding is removed the system is IC.

rossum
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This represents an ardent wish but a rock is not a living thing.

Peace,
Ed
 
buffalo said:
That is wrong - take away one of the 40 or so parts of the flagellum and it’s function falls apart, just like the arch. The same for the mousetrap. It doesn’t catch mice. Specified complexity is the design for a function.

Just remember - there will be always at least one gap or we would be God.
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Wrong. Guess you ignored all the videos and links I’ve given you already… here’s one direclty addressing this.

youtube.com/watch?v=0hW7ddJOWko
 
liquidpele said:
Erosion is a natural process, so yes, there are natural processes in biology.

But whatever, comparing life to an arch is a *very *poor comparison anyway. You’re right that a man made arch is an example of irreducible complexity because you can’t remove one stone without it collapsing. However, that’s completely irrelevant to the discussion of biological lifeforms as it has no bearing on IC within that realm. Every single claim made by ID enthusiasts regarding irreducible complexity in biology has been squashed including the eye, flagellum, clotting agents, etc. At this point it’s more about you pointing to the unknown and playing God of the Gaps than about anything else.
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Incorrect. Archaeologists find unknown objects and evaluate them all the time: Intelligently Designed and not Intelligently designed.

Peace,
Ed
 
edwest2 said:
Incorrect. Archaeologists find unknown objects and evaluate them all the time: Intelligently Designed and not Intelligently designed.

Peace,
Ed
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That’s because we’re good at recognizing what **WE **made… we didn’t make life so it doesn’t apply.

And besides, who would make us like this? We’re a mess. Genetic diseases everywhere, 3 fingers per hand that you can’t move independently, sensitive organs dangling between my legs, women dying in child birth because the birth canal is too narrow due to us walking upright, blind spots in the eye, we can’t grow more teeth like sharks… whoever “designed” us did a pretty bad job in a lot of areas.

AND… even if you do think we look like we’re designed, that doesn’t negate the fact that evidence suggests that we evolved. The sun “looks” like it goes around the Earth.
 
liquidpele said:
That’s because we’re good at recognizing what **WE **made… we didn’t make life so it doesn’t apply.

And besides, who would make us like this? We’re a mess. Genetic diseases everywhere, 3 fingers per hand that you can’t move independently, sensitive organs dangling between my legs, women dying in child birth because the birth canal is too narrow due to us walking upright, blind spots in the eye, we can’t grow more teeth like sharks… whoever “designed” us did a pretty bad job in a lot of areas.

AND… even if you do think we look like we’re designed, that doesn’t negate the fact that evidence suggests that we evolved. The sun “looks” like it goes around the Earth.
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inb4 ‘caused by the fall of man’
 
liquidpele said:
That’s because we’re good at recognizing what **WE **made… we didn’t make life so it doesn’t apply.

And besides, who would make us like this? We’re a mess. Genetic diseases everywhere, 3 fingers per hand that you can’t move independently, sensitive organs dangling between my legs, women dying in child birth because the birth canal is too narrow due to us walking upright, blind spots in the eye, we can’t grow more teeth like sharks… whoever “designed” us did a pretty bad job in a lot of areas.

AND… even if you do think we look like we’re designed, that doesn’t negate the fact that evidence suggests that we evolved. The sun “looks” like it goes around the Earth.
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Here is your challenge - go to work designing life. Allow for the fact it must reproduce, it must be able to sustain harsh environments, be able to stave of mutations, etc…

When you are done - please show us your designs for a human being.
 
buffalo said:
Here is your challenge - go to work designing life. Allow for the fact it must reproduce, it must be able to sustain harsh environments, be able to stave of mutations, etc…

When you are done - please show us your designs for a human being.
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That is ridiculous.
Surely if you can’t post a complete design for a space shuttle here on this forum, space shuttles must be divinely made.
 
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