Evolution question.

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I’m debating an agnostic and right now the topic is evolution. I think I’ve made an impact on him thus far, but he just raised a good point. To quote him:
‘…a full human man came to be through breeding with early “proto humans”. It would be a gradual change instead of going from proto humans to humans in a single generation. So we have to believe that men went through the evolutionary process, but the first women was created from a rib?’

This is, of course, a rebuttal to the Catholic position that every Catholic must belive woman was created second to man; after man.

So what’s a good response to this?

Thank you, 😃
coolduude:cool:
 
there are many, many threads here on this subject. Just go up to “search” and put in some term like Genesis, creation, evolution, etc. to tap into the virtually countless discussions, whose repetition here is unnecessary (really). This way, you don’t have to wait for an answer, since there are so many answers already laying around here.

Put a little work into this, as you expect others to work for you! God bless.
 
Crumpy said:
there are many, many threads here on this subject. Just go up to “search” and put in some term like Genesis, creation, evolution, etc. to tap into the virtually countless discussions, whose repetition here is unnecessary (really). This way, you don’t have to wait for an answer, since there are so many answers already laying around here.

Put a little work into this, as you expect others to work for you! God bless.
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Well I know there are other evolution threads but I didn’t know they cover this topic specifically, as I consider it a unique question (although it has been raised before, no doubt). I just didn’t know the answer was already under my nose 😃

Thank you!
 
coolduude said:
Well I know there are other evolution threads but I didn’t know they cover this topic specifically, as I consider it a unique question (although it has been raised before, no doubt). I just didn’t know the answer was already under my nose 😃

Thank you!
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There is currently a temporary ban on evolution threads so you may not get the number of responses you are expecting.

I suggest that you start by reading Adam, Eve and Evolution from the Catholic Answers library.

rossum
 
rossum said:
There is currently a temporary ban on evolution threads so you may not get the number of responses you are expecting.

I suggest that you start by reading Adam, Eve and Evolution from the Catholic Answers library.

rossum
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Good suggestion Rossum. I will add:

Catholic teaching regarding Adam and Eve is found in the
Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition, ISBN: 1-57455-109-4
Paragraphs 355-421.

One can put paragraph numbers and topics such as Adam, etc. in the Catechism’s search bar in link www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

Blessings,
granny

Spring is God’s message of faith in the future.
 
It is important to understand the Catholic position which is that the human species came from only two first parents who were totally human created by God. Their human nature is an unique unification of spirit/matter, rational/corporeal, soul and body. It is also important to understand the Catholic position on Original Sin which is connected to monogenism, i.e., all of us are descended from Adam and Eve who existed as real people in real time.
 
coolduude said:
I To quote him:
'…a full human man came to be through breeding with early “proto humans”. It would be a gradual change instead of going from proto humans to humans in a single generation. ol:
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cooldude, this sounds perfectly compatible with Catholic theology, and at least iwth teh thinking of Pope Benedict XVI…
 
StAnastasia said:
cooldude, this sounds perfectly compatible with Catholic theology, and at least iwth teh thinking of Pope Benedict XVI…
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Speaking from only a theological point of view, the above should be viewed as an individual, personal opinion. Catholicism teaches monogenism.

Correction: View or opinion from post 6, poster.
 
grannymh said:
Speaking from only a theological point of view, the above should be viewed as an individual, personal opinion. Catholicism teaches monogenism.
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Do you mean the pope’s individual opinion?
 
What about JPII’s talk to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences on 23 April 1996?
Almost half a century after the publication of the encyclical Humani Generis, new knowledge has led to the recognition of the theory of evolution as more than a hypothesis. It is indeed remarkable that this theory has been progressively accepted by researchers, following a series of discoveries in various fields of knowledge. The convergence, neither sought nor fabricated, of the results of work that was conducted independently is in itself a significant argument in favor of this theory. (newadvent.org/library/docs_jp02tc.htm)
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I hardly think it is fair to say that the official Church doctrine on the matter is that [six thousand years ago] man was created out of the mud.
 
I would like to get into a discussion. But, at this time I will respect the ban and try not to get in a back and forth concerning evolution. But, as ThomasToo pointed out, Pope John Paul II expressed an openness to the theory of evolution. I would just like to ask a question. The church seems quite open to the acceptance of the theory. Why do so many people still not accept it? Is it because you think it somehow goes against your belief in God? I have many Catholic friends that believe it was overseen by God. So, in essence, it is a natural process that is overseen by the creator. I’m just curious as to why this issue still divides so many when the church itself shows a great acceptance towards the theory.

.murmur.
 
murmur said:
I would like to get into a discussion. But, at this time I will respect the ban and try not to get in a back and forth concerning evolution.
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My apologies, I was unaware of such a ban having joined a couple days ago.
 
My advice would be to forget the debate. Go and read up on why evolution is one of the, if not the, strongest supported theory in the whole of science. The evidence for evolution is overwhelming, i am sure that once you read up on it (from proper sources) you will accept the reality that we most differently did evolve. You may as well debate that the world is flat, or 6000 years old, or that the sun orbits the earth.

If reading science papers isn’t your thing, then here is a truly great series of videos that will lead you through lots of the evidence.

youtube.com/watch?v=KnJX68ELbAY&feature=PlayList&p=126AFB53A6F002CC&playnext_from=PL&index=0&playnext=1
 
FYI

Reading science papers including the methods and materials sections, not just the abstracts, is my thing. I do respect the current ban.

I agree with the Catholic teaching that human nature is an unique unification of spirit/matter, rational/corporeal, soul/body. As the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches – In his own nature, the human person unites the spiritual and material worlds. (refer to paragraph 355 and following paragraphs)

Link to Catechism of the Catholic Church – www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

Blessings,
granny

All human life is worthy of profound respect from the moment of conception.
 
murmur said:
I would like to get into a discussion. But, at this time I will respect the ban and try not to get in a back and forth concerning evolution. But, as ThomasToo pointed out, Pope John Paul II expressed an openness to the theory of evolution. I would just like to ask a question.** The church seems quite open to the acceptance of the theory. Why do so many people still not accept it?** Is it because you think it somehow goes against your belief in God? I have many Catholic friends that believe it was overseen by God. So, in essence, it is a natural process that is overseen by the creator. I’m just curious as to why this issue still divides so many when the church itself shows a great acceptance towards the theory.

.murmur.
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I, too, fully respect the current ban. Nonetheless, I would like to answer your question since it regards Catholicism.

Catholics are no different from you or anyone else in that we all want to know more about the universe we live in. None of us would be here if our first ancestors were not curious about which plants were nourishing or did not figure out how to compare the speed of a deer with the speed of a spear.

The point is that we live in a material/physical world. We have intellectual capabilities plus the ability to make decisions about what we learn and experience. What is known about our earth and universe is called science. Duh! 😃

The realm of Catholicism is faith and morals which originates from the Catholic Deposit of Faith. Thus, scientific facts, theories, and/or opinions cannot be considered part of Catholic doctrine. In other words, our human nature unites the spiritual and material realms. When it comes to spiritual matters, I follow the teachings of the Catholic Church as contained in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

But when it comes to scientific questions in the material realm, I, and anyone including high ranking clergy, can express our opinions or our personal decisions regarding any scientific theory. This is why there are many Catholics, including officials in the Church, who are open to various scientific theories. Call it freedom of speech.

The reason so many people do not accept a particular science theory is simply that they don’t have to for a variety of reasons.

The reason why science can be such a dividing issue is when science disagrees with Catholic teachings about God as Creator and the human being who was created to be with God eternally. These are matters of faith. Divine Revelation trumps.

While the Catholic Church is one in its teachings, individual Catholics can use their free will to disagree with this or that and thus come up with their own interpretations.
Lack of Catholic education also complicates things. Personally, I cannot judge why other people do what they do. When I am in doubt, I check the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Blessings,
granny

Link to Catechism of the Catholic Church – www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm
 
grannymh said:
The realm of Catholicism is faith and morals which originates from the Catholic Deposit of Faith. Thus, scientific facts, theories, and/or opinions cannot be considered part of Catholic doctrine. In other words, our human nature unites the spiritual and material realms. When it comes to spiritual matters, I follow the teachings of the Catholic Church as contained in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

But when it comes to scientific questions in the material realm, I, and anyone including high ranking clergy, can express our opinions or our personal decisions regarding any scientific theory. This is why there are many Catholics, including officials in the Church, who are open to various scientific theories. Call it freedom of speech.

The reason so many people do not accept a particular science theory is simply that they don’t have to for a variety of reasons.

The reason why science can be such a dividing issue is when science disagrees with Catholic teachings about God as Creator and the human being who was created to be with God eternally. These are matters of faith. Divine Revelation trumps.

While the Catholic Church is one in its teachings, individual Catholics can use their free will to disagree with this or that and thus come up with their own interpretations.
Lack of Catholic education also complicates things. Personally, I cannot judge why other people do what they do. When I am in doubt, I check the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
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Hello, Granny. Thank you for your response. I am well aware of the individual Catholic’s freedom to believe whatever way he/she wishes concerning evolution. Forgive me, I am not trying to press any point, but I don’t think my original question was clear enough.

I know they don’t have to accept any science that conflicts with their Catholic beliefs. But, what I was wondering, is where exactly do those conflicts lie? Where are the areas that speak otherwise when compared to science? I suppose you could cite Adam and Eve as support for humans existing in their present form. But, I only know a small amount of my Catholic friends believe in Adam and Eve. With that point aside, what are the other areas that come into conflict with evolution? Thank you for your time.
 
StAnastasia said:
cooldude, this sounds perfectly compatible with Catholic theology, and at least iwth teh thinking of Pope Benedict XVI…
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I am not aware of any Church document or statement that references “proto-humans.”

Peace,
Ed
Choose Jesus.
 
murmur said:
Hello, Granny. Thank you for your response. I am well aware of the individual Catholic’s freedom to believe whatever way he/she wishes concerning evolution. Forgive me, I am not trying to press any point, but I don’t think my original question was clear enough.

I know they don’t have to accept any science that conflicts with their Catholic beliefs. But, what I was wondering, is where exactly do those conflicts lie? Where are the areas that speak otherwise when compared to science? I suppose you could cite Adam and Eve as support for humans existing in their present form. But, I only know a small amount of my Catholic friends believe in Adam and Eve. With that point aside, what are the other areas that come into conflict with evolution? Thank you for your time.
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While there are many CAF posters who will disagree with me, I do not consider the age of the earth or the variety of animal species actual areas of conflicts because there are no Catholic doctrines p(name removed by moderator)ointing the age of the earth or where the various non-human species come from. The Catholic doctrine concerning the earth and its creatures is that God is the Creator of all.

There are additional doctrines regarding the human person. If you wish, check out post 66 in the thread “Is There a Soul” also in the Philosophy Forum. My intention was to base my response close to actual statements from the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

It is apparent that many Catholics (including the poster I was responding to in post 66) consider Adam and Eve as symbolic or figurative of some kind of truth. These people are already in conflict with Catholic teaching consequently often they don’t realize the problems of evolution regarding the human race. Or maybe they originally decided on their separate beliefs because of the popularity of science. As for Original Sin and its effects, it is amazing how many Catholics lack full knowledge.

It is my observation that the key conflicts with evolutionary theory are the reality of Adam and Eve as the two sole parents of the human species, the full meaning of Adam’s Original Sin, and human nature itself. Human nature goes right back to Adam and Eve as parents of humanity. The issues involving human nature concern the existence of the immaterial, immortal spiritual soul, the exercise of free will choice, and the state or condition of human nature following Adam’s sin.

If I can explain something further, please do not hesitate to ask.

Blessings,
granny

Link to Catechism of the Catholic Church – www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm
 
Is the Philosophy behind a question that can not be engaged in with any alternate viewpoints under a ban some type of litmus test about the ability to continue to classify the topic under the banner of Philosophy?
 
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