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ricmat
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I also have this book, and highly recommend it for StA.
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StAnastasia
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(1) Yes, of course Jesus Christ is an historical fact – what’s your problem?Jesus Christ is a historical fact. The disciples told the people at the time that Jesus was God, for real, or the faith would be pointless. Don’t you get it? The people searched the Scriptures diligently to see if what they said was true, i.e. for real.
Science should not stand in the way of, or be the gatekeeper of truth - a reality that has left artifacts like the cloak of Our Lady of Guadelupe to study. But you don’t want to accept that.
(2) Science doesn’t stand as a gatekeeper to truth. But if radiocarbon dating shows that the Shroud of Turin is a medieval artifact rather than the real deal, how does that impact your faith?
(3) How do you know I don’t accept the cloak of Guadalupe?
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StAnastasia
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As am I. And this is not a “phase,” young whipper snapper!Why am I Catholic - I am cradle Catholic, who went through the phase you seem to be in, and studied my way to the truth.
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buffalo
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#2 - New analysis shows it is 2000 years old.(1) Yes, of course Jesus Christ is an historical fact – what’s your problem?
(2) Science doesn’t stand as a gatekeeper to truth. But if radiocarbon dating shows that the Shroud of Turin is a medieval artifact rather than the real deal, how does that impact your faith?
(3) How do you know I don’t accept the cloak of Guadalupe?
And this is really cool - I recommend you watch it.
**Divine Mercy and Shroud of Turin
#3 - It would be very inconsistent with your postings.
**
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StAnastasia
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I never claimed to have seen them all. But one that I did witness had a perfectly naturalistic explanation, and was none the less a “miraculous intervention” in its consequences.Youu have seen miracles - that is good. But there are many which you haven’t seen. I’ll suggest that the number is quite high (since the beginning of the universe). How did these miracles affect the things of science? How did God’s miraculous power shape the things of nature, directly or indirectly?
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reggieM
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Because we have been granted the eyes of Faith by the grace of the sacraments, we can see beyond the superficial aspects of reality (external or naturalistic) … so often we can see true miracles that can be mistaken for natural events. God is very subtle sometimes and He hides Himself – requiring us to truly look for His presence. But there are other times when He is more bold in showing His actions.I never claimed to have seen them all. But one that I did witness had a perfectly naturalistic explanation, and was none the less a “miraculous intervention” in its consequences.
So, you noticed a miracle that perhaps others would have excused as just a natural occurance. I’ve seen things like that also. But the miracle does have an impact on science as well. The theory of evolution supposes that all things in nature are driven and governed soley by natural laws (selection, adaptation).
The consequences of miracles can have a profound impact on the development of nature and are therefore relevant to science.
Did natural selection preserve the Jewish race from extinction?
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Dchsknight
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This whole post is why Protestants and Catholics dont get along. Because we all like to Argue back and forth, I am right no i am right no your wrong, no i am right and your going to hell! If Christ was here reading this thread,( and by the way he is) then he would be very ashamed of you all. Stop arguing on petty things and starting acting on what is really important, Furthering the Kingdom of God and serving him!
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StAnastasia
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reggieM;4672150So said:Reggie, what I witnessed was not something others would have excused as a natural occurrence – it was indeed a natural occurrence, or a natural confluence of two events, both of which were naturally explicable, but the coincidence of which saved one person and changed numerous lives forever. I have no problem calling it a miracle; my atheist friends would call it a simple coincidence; science would be neither necessary nor useful in explaining it.
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buffalo
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It is useful to remember God can also use nature to perform miracles.Reggie, what I witnessed was not something others would have excused as a natural occurrence – it was indeed a natural occurrence, or a natural confluence of two events, both of which were naturally explicable, but the coincidence of which saved one person and changed numerous lives forever. I have no problem calling it a miracle; my atheist friends would call it a simple coincidence; science would be neither necessary nor useful in explaining it.
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StAnastasia
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What things do you judge as “petty”?Stop arguing on petty things and starting acting on what is really important, Furthering the Kingdom of God and serving him!
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Dchsknight
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When we get to heaven, God is not gonna ask us if we believe in Evolution or anything that like that. he will ask us two questions. they are: Do you believe in my Son as your God and Savior, Does his cover you? if no then you go to hell, if yes then, because the chief end of all man is to serve and glorify God, What did you do for me here on this earth, How did you serve me? SO anything that takes away from that, From Knowing Christ and serving him in what ever he calls us to do, IS petty and not worth our time. (Pardon me what i am about to say) and i am pretty damn sure that God did not ask us to argue, IN fact he said the opposite, Be like Minded. arguing is not being like minded. Arguing entails Divisiveness, and God warned about people who are Divisive. I am not one of those people who says we all have to get along, But when you are in a body of people who profess to follow Christ and they start arguing and Bickering, no wonder the world looks on religion and laughs. We don’t all have to get along, but we do as believers follow Christ and follow his word, this thread is being petty and not following his word and is being a poor example to those around us and the people who do not believe in Christ who read this website.What things do you judge as “petty”?
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StAnastasia
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Do you believe there is any such thing as a true interpretation of how the world work? If so, is there anything important that depends on such a true interpretation?When we get to heaven, God is not gonna ask us if we believe in Evolution or anything that like that…
If you drive a car, visit a dentist, have ever had surgery or used antibiotics, cook on a stove, or use a cell phone or a computer, you depend upon a view of the world that is true, and you depend on science. Science may be petty to you, but to many of us who love God it is not.
StAnastasia
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Dchsknight
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Never said Science is petty. In fact it is very important to how this world works. Because Jesus christ the God-man, our creator and savior Invented it. But when all sit and argue about it and bicker and fight about it, the focus has been dropped from Jesus and is now on us and what we think is right, not what God said is right. thus it is petty and truthfully bordering on becoming an idol. Because we get so wrapped up in what SCIENCE says and we forget what God says. science and how this world works is cool. Watching a baby grow in it’s mother’s womb, is beautiful, watching how plants grow is amazing, and pondering how electricity can then be funneled through electrodes and mother boards can then produce the very computer i am typing on, hurts my brain, but it is meaningless and petty when we forget who made it all and take the focus off him and put it on our selves and what Man thinks is right and not what God says is right.
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reggieM
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There are some coincidences that science would be useful to investigate, at least in terms of looking at probabilities. When the probability of a certain event happening is low enough it reaches a point where we can say it’s “impossible”. But even for things not as overwhelming as that, especially if a person has been praying for a certain outcome and an extremely improbable positive outcome does occur – science can be an indicator that “something out of the ordinary” did occur.Reggie, what I witnessed was not something others would have excused as a natural occurrence – it was indeed a natural occurrence, or a natural confluence of two events, both of which were naturally explicable, but the coincidence of which saved one person and changed numerous lives forever. I have no problem calling it a miracle; my atheist friends would call it a simple coincidence; science would be neither necessary nor useful in explaining it.
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reggieM
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For God’s sake, have Charles Darwin’s theories made any difference to our lives?
I thought this was very good, from the U.K. Times.
I thought this was very good, from the U.K. Times.
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StAnastasia
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What analysis is that?#2 - New analysis shows it is 2000 years old.
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StAnastasia
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So what exactly is your point? Should scientific discussion cease just because you interpret theoretical disagreement as “bickering”?Never said Science is petty. In fact it is very important to how this world works. .
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Dchsknight
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Talks and such should cease when the focus is off God, Refocus and continue.
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StAnastasia
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Agreed, although nothing out of the ordinary occurred here.science can be an indicator that “something out of the ordinary” did occur.
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StAnastasia
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What about when the discussion concerns the mechanisms of evolution and how God might be creating through them?Talks and such should cease when the focus is off God, Refocus and continue.
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