EVOLUTION: what about this

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What analysis is that?
Actually two - one that pollens unique to the time and date of Christ were found in the fibers

The other was that the carbon dating was actually done to a repaired piece that gave a mediveil date. This repair if I remember was after the fire.

You can search for this yourself to bring yourself up to date.

What did you think of the video?
 
What about when the discussion concerns the mechanisms of evolution and how God might be creating through them?
Because God created the world in 7 Days, 7, 24 hour periods. The bible says so. Pretty clear that evolution can not take place in 7 days. He could have done it in millions of years but the bible says 7 days. so if you any kind of bible believing catholic or Christian, saying that God did not literally mean 7 days, is Denial of God and his power. What are we going to say next that Christ did not really mean we have to eat his flesh and drink his ? That there was no world flood? That there was no man 3 1/2 cubits tall named Goliath, that a man named samson did not really remove the Gates off the City of Gaza and walk 2 miles away to hebron. That Elijah did not really call down fire and consume everything on the alter in front of the Prophets of Baal? That Jericho’s Walls did not fall because god made them? The all the plagues of Egypt really did not happen? Science is study of GOD’S world? not what we think is going on. The bible is pretty clear as to what happened at creation, and we sin when we remove the focus off of God. Interpretation is fine, Evolution is not what the bible says, and to say so really is sinful.
 
Agreed, although nothing out of the ordinary occurred here.
Probably true. But I was getting at the nature of “coincidence”.
Here are a few definitions …

*A sequence of events that although accidental seems to have been planned or arranged

the occurrence of events that happen at the same time by accident but seem to have some connection ; also : any of these occurrences

an accidental and remarkable occurrence of events or ideas at the same time, suggesting but lacking a causal relationship*
 
Because God created the world in 7 Days, 7, 24 hour periods. The bible says so. Pretty clear that evolution can not take place in 7 days. He could have done it in millions of years but the bible says 7 days. so if you any kind of bible believing catholic or Christian, saying that God did not literally mean 7 days, is Denial of God and his power… Evolution is not what the bible says, and to say so really is sinful.
You’ll have to convince Pope Benedict of that. There is no prohibition on Catholics accepting biological science and its organizing principle of evolution.
 
an accidental and remarkable occurrence of events or ideas at the same time, suggesting but lacking a causal relationship
[/INDENT]

The occurrence of which I was a witness was of your third kind (above). If science had been brought to bear on any of the factors individually, nothing extraordinary would have been revealed. It was the interpretation of the coincidences, and what it brought one person to do, that has been life altering (in that sense it’s an on-going miracle).

A similar example might be of a baby stuck in a car seat in the way of an oncoming train, saved by a stranger. The physics of removing the child might reveal no special intervention, and yet the outcome be miraculous.
 
You’ll have to convince Pope Benedict of that. There is no prohibition on Catholics accepting biological science and its organizing principle of evolution.
Well, biological science and evolution are two different things. I presume you’re lumping them together as a sort of straw man. In which case you forgot to lump in “Belief in Jesus Christ.” That would have made an even better straw man.

And there are different types of evolution, as you can see from the posts on CAF and elsewhere.

But here you go, with regard to evolution:

Quote directly from the US Catholic Catechism for Adults - page 60 (2007):
“Christian faith does not require the acceptance of any particular theory of evolution, nor does it forbid it, provided that the particular theory is not strictly materialistic and does not deny what is essential to the spiritual essence of the human person, namely that God creates each human soul directly to share immortal life with him.”
Some evolutionary theories, it seems, are prohibited.

Or do you disagree with the Catechism?
 
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hecd2:
A story that we *know *
cannot be literally true based on the fact that multiple lines of genomic data preclude the possibility of humans having descended from two sole parents and on the fact that talking snakes do not exist.Have you personally examined and interviewed every single snake that has EVER existed?

You should know that it is pretty darn hard to prove a universal negative.

Just like it is pretty darn hard to prove that there is no God anywhere in the entire universe or in those multiverses that they talk about on the History Channel on Tuesday nights.

You’re caught in a logical trap there.
I note that you only address the snake fact and leave the genomic facts alone.

As for the snake fact, you know that I haven’t personally examined and interviewed every snake that has ever existed, but according to your approach to establishing the way the world works, one can’t prove that an elephant hasn’t written a book, that a rat somewhere in the Southern hemisphere doesn’t sing Elvis Presley songs every Saturday, or that there isn’t a tiny teapot orbiting Mars. In fact, one couldn’t establish any scientific fact at all.

I haven’t tested every lead ball that ever existed, but I am sure that if I release an unfamiliar one from the top of the tower of Pisa it will go down, not up. I would stake my life on that. In the same way, enough people have encountered and investigated enough living and fossil snakes to know that snakes don’t talk. I would stake my life on the fact that any snake (ie members of the monophyletic group Serpentes) that anyone can produce won’t be able to talk. You can’t get any surer than that.

Now do you understand why your childish “logical traps” are of no consequence?

Alec
evolutionpages.com
 
I note that you only address the snake fact and leave the genomic facts alone.

As for the snake fact, you know that I haven’t personally examined and interviewed every snake that has ever existed, but according to your approach to establishing the way the world works, one can’t prove that an elephant hasn’t written a book, that a rat somewhere in the Southern hemisphere doesn’t sing Elvis Presley songs every Saturday, or that there isn’t a tiny teapot orbiting Mars. In fact, one couldn’t establish any scientific fact at all.

I haven’t tested every lead ball that ever existed, but I am sure that if I release an unfamiliar one from the top of the tower of Pisa it will go down, not up. I would stake my life on that. In the same way, enough people have encountered and investigated enough living and fossil snakes to know that snakes don’t talk. I would stake my life on the fact that any snake (ie members of the monophyletic group Serpentes) that anyone can produce won’t be able to talk. You can’t get any surer than that.

Now do you understand why your childish “logical traps” are of no consequence?

Alec
evolutionpages.com
But, if you had faith and it was strong enough then perhaps that lead ball would go up, not down.
 
Some evolutionary theories, it seems, are prohibited. Or do you disagree with the Catechism?
I don’t know of evolutionary theories that are prohibited. Lamarckian evolution of acquired characteristics has been falsified, but not prohibited by the Church. Evolution involving Mendelian genetics is not prohibited, and in fact the neo-Darwinian synthesis has strengthened evolution.
 
“Christian faith does not require the acceptance of any particular theory of evolution, nor does it forbid it, provided that the particular theory is not strictly materialistic and does not deny what is essential to the spiritual essence of the human person, namely that God creates each human soul directly to share immortal life with him.”
Which means any scientific theory of evolution is acceptable. Science is unable to be strictly materialistic, because it can neither affirm nor deny that there are supernatural things.
 
(2) Do you deny that either God inflicted suffering on innocent people in the Old Testament, or the Old Testament writers imagined God as doing so?
Could you please share where it is in the Bible that God inflicts sufferring on the innocent?

Thanks
 
If you drive a car, visit a dentist, have ever had surgery or used antibiotics, cook on a stove, or use a cell phone or a computer, you depend upon a view of the world that is true, and you depend on science. Science may be petty to you, but to many of us who love God it is not.
I always get a kick out of this statement, no matter how it’s phrased. “If you eat eggs cooked in a microwave, you benefit from evolutionary science!!!”
 
Did a submarine commander close a door against tons of water pressure?

catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=9547

Peace,
Ed
That was a remarkable story – thanks for posting it (I want to see the DVD sometime). Science determined that it was “humanly impossible” for a man to do what he did. Investigating further, the man prayed to Bl. Mother Maria Petkovic, saw a vision of light, and was filled with a “supernatural force”.

Perhaps science will say that it cannot investigate such things. But the evidence should be enough, at the very least, to conclude “at present, we recognize that there are some phenomena occuring in nature which are beyond the capability of science to explain”.

That would be a starting point in truth – instead of the arrogance which pretends that science can explain all of the developments of nature through evolutionary processes.
 
Could you please share where it is in the Bible that God inflicts sufferring on the innocent?
Certainly:

Joshua 6:17 “And the city and all that is within it shall be devoted to the LORD for destruction”

Joshua 6:21 “Then they utterly destroyed all in the city, both men and women, young and old, oxen, sheep, and asses, with the edge of the sword.”

Were the newborn babies of Jericho innocent or guilty? Were the one year old children of Jericho innocent or guilty? What of the pregnant women living in Jericho - were not their unborn children innocent?

Are the animals innocent? They certainly had not sinned, since animals cannot sin.

Numbers 31:17 “Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him.”

Male babies and very young male children are ordered to be killed - are young children not to be considered innocent? Pregnant women are explicitly included in the list of those to be killed. What crime had their unborn children committed that they deserved the death penalty?

There are other examples as well, but these two are enough to start with.

rossum
 
Certainly:

Joshua 6:17 “And the city and all that is within it shall be devoted to the LORD for destruction”

Joshua 6:21 “Then they utterly destroyed all in the city, both men and women, young and old, oxen, sheep, and asses, with the edge of the sword.”

Were the newborn babies of Jericho innocent or guilty? Were the one year old children of Jericho innocent or guilty? What of the pregnant women living in Jericho - were not their unborn children innocent?

Are the animals innocent? They certainly had not sinned, since animals cannot sin.

Numbers 31:17 “Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him.”

Male babies and very young male children are ordered to be killed - are young children not to be considered innocent? Pregnant women are explicitly included in the list of those to be killed. What crime had their unborn children committed that they deserved the death penalty?

There are other examples as well, but these two are enough to start with.

rossum
It cannot be assumed that babies are innocent. When you go to a surgeon to cut off your gangrenous leg, do you want him to remove all of the disease or just some of it? When removing evil do we want all of it removed or just some?
 
Certainly:

Joshua 6:17 “And the city and all that is within it shall be devoted to the LORD for destruction”

Joshua 6:21 “Then they utterly destroyed all in the city, both men and women, young and old, oxen, sheep, and asses, with the edge of the sword.”

Were the newborn babies of Jericho innocent or guilty? Were the one year old children of Jericho innocent or guilty? What of the pregnant women living in Jericho - were not their unborn children innocent?

Are the animals innocent? They certainly had not sinned, since animals cannot sin.

Numbers 31:17 “Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him.”

Male babies and very young male children are ordered to be killed - are young children not to be considered innocent? Pregnant women are explicitly included in the list of those to be killed. What crime had their unborn children committed that they deserved the death penalty?

There are other examples as well, but these two are enough to start with.

rossum
Are you Christian?
 
It cannot be assumed that babies are innocent. When you go to a surgeon to cut off your gangrenous leg, do you want him to remove all of the disease or just some of it? When removing evil do we want all of it removed or just some?
Ah, those evil babies. No doubt guilty of rape, murder, extortion and arson. God can’t be too careful, you know!
 
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