EVOLUTION: what about this

[buffalo]

Ah, those evil babies. No doubt guilty of rape, murder, extortion and arson. God can’t be too careful, you know!

Babies (except in our modern day) grow up to be adults. Duh.

Gee - do I have to explain everything to you? You have a very shallow understanding of what was going on. You remind me of some of the youngins who come here with their smug atheistic talking points, only to find out how they have bought it hook line and sinker.

 

[StAnastasia]

Certainly:Joshua 6:17 “And the city and all that is within it shall be devoted to the LORD for destruction”
Joshua 6:21 “Then they utterly destroyed all in the city, both men and women, young and old, oxen, sheep, and asses, with the edge of the sword.”/QUOTE]

Rossum, don’t forget all the inhabitants of Sodom, including the women, children and infants. And the whole family of Achan (including his children), slaughtered by God’s “holy” prophet Joshua (7:24-25).

 

[StAnastasia]

There are other examples as well, but these two are enough to start with.rossum

Rossum, don’t forget all the inhabitants of Sodom, including the women, children and infants. And the whole family of Achan (including his children), slaughtered by God’s “holy” prophet Joshua (7:24-25).

 

[StAnastasia]

Babies (except in our modern day) grow up to be adults. Duh.(

Shall I take it you are in favor of preemptive abortion then?

 

[buffalo]

Shall I take it you are in favor of preemptive abortion then?

Only if the command is a divine command. Humans do not have authority over creation.

 

[buffalo]

I don’t know what evolutionism is. Evolution is not a religion.

Peace

Tim

Orogeny,

I found this which sums it up pretty well.

Let’s discuss.

Buffalo

StA - it would be good for you too.

 

[rossum]

It cannot be assumed that babies are innocent.

I was under the impression that the Catholic Church had a concept of the ‘age of reason’, which IIRC is about seven years old. Below that age children are not considered capable of committing a sin because they do not yet have a full understanding of what sin is and what it entails. To quote from the New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia:it is presumed that until the age of reason, legally fixed at seven years, a child possesses neither the intelligence nor the experience to commit sin

Source: NACE Article: Minor
Am I wrong in this? What sins can a one week old embryo commit? What sins can a one week old baby commit? Be specific please.

rossum

 

[buffalo]

I was under the impression that the Catholic Church had a concept of the ‘age of reason’, which IIRC is about seven years old. Below that age children are not considered capable of committing a sin because they do not yet have a full understanding of what sin is and what it entails. To quote from the New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia:it is presumed that until the age of reason, legally fixed at seven years, a child possesses neither the intelligence nor the experience to commit sin

Source: NACE Article: MinorAm I wrong in this? What sins can a one week old embryo commit? What sins can a one week old baby commit? Be specific please.

rossum

You are better than this.

Hello - I didn’t mean babies who couldn’t even walk could commit crimes. Innocence goes a little deeper than that.

If Hitler had children and he was indoctrinating them with hate for everyone non-Aryan then they would be able to inflict severe evil on the world by continuing his policies. The elimination of evil should include the seeds too.

But, you and StA are missing the big one. The flood. Now that is mass murder. All the other stuff pales by comparison.

Some things we don’t know - now God sent His only son to unlock the gates of heaven. This is a significant event for more than one reason. We ask - well what happened to all the people before they were opened? It poses some interesting possibilities. Perhaps God removed souls from this earth that were not capable of experiencing Him fully. Perhaps what we view through our modern lens as brutal and murderous was mercy. We do not know what became of those souls. Perhaps God exhibited love and mercy to them is some way unknown to us.

 

[reggieM]

With God’s chastisements, the good and the bad suffer. All creatures are subject to death, and that is God’s punishment on everyone - the innocent or the guilty.

For those who will live with God for eternity, death is a blessing and life on this earth is the Cross of Christ.

When using the term “punishment” with regards to God’s actions, you have to realize that all of God’s actions are for the good (both justice and mercy).

God chastizes those who He loves. God wipes out entire civilizations for His reasons – they were created to be temporary (temporal). The innocent who die because of the guilt of sinners will live forever with God – as every Catholic martyr has done.

 

[Orogeny]

Orogeny,

I found this which sums it up pretty well.

Let’s discuss.

Buffalo

StA - it would be good for you too.

From the first paragraph in the article:

By “evolutionism” I mean the world view which has as its basic premise the belief that the well-known theory of organic evolution is the only reasonable scientific explanation of the origin of the variety of living organisms we see about us today or of those that once lived but are now extinct.

If that is the definition to be used, I accept evolutionism. Evolution IS the only reasonable scientific explanation of the origin of the variety of life on earth.

And then, in the next paragraph, the author writes:

This explanation, that order evolved from chaos, is put forward despite the fact that it flies in the face of the well-established Second Law of Thermodynamics, which infers that all ordered systems tend towards disorder.

He has now completely disqualified himself regarding this issue as far as I am concerned.

Peace

Tim

 

[buffalo]

From the first paragraph in the article:
If that is the definition to be used, I accept evolutionism. Evolution IS the only reasonable scientific explanation of the origin of the variety of life on earth.

And then, in the next paragraph, the author writes:He has now completely disqualified himself regarding this issue as far as I am concerned.

Peace

Tim

Your position is then that the entropy of the universe is not increasing?

 

[Orogeny]

Your position is then that the entropy of the universe is not increasing?

My positon is that anyone who claims that evolution violates the second law of thermodynamics either doesn’t understand the second law or is a liar. When the author of the paper you linked to begins his dissertation with that claim, he has set himself up as either one who doesn’t understand what he is writing about (which I will give him the benefit of the doubt and assume to be the case) or as a liar. In either case, I don’t put any credence in his flawed thesis.

Peace

Tim

 

[StAnastasia]

But, you and StA are missing the big one. The flood. Now that is mass murder. All the other stuff pales by comparison.

We’ve already determined on other threads that the flood narrative is symbolic, not literal in meaning, so it would be tiring and pointless to debate that again.

 

[buffalo]

My positon is that anyone who claims that evolution violates the second law of thermodynamics either doesn’t understand the second law or is a liar. When the author of the paper you linked to begins his dissertation with that claim, he has set himself up as either one who doesn’t understand what he is writing about (which I will give him the benefit of the doubt and assume to be the case) or as a liar. In either case, I don’t put any credence in his flawed thesis.

Peace

Tim

Please answer the question I asked.

 

[buffalo]

We’ve already determined on other threads that the flood narrative is symbolic, not literal in meaning, so it would be tiring and pointless to debate that again.

But the point of the story is that God murdered all except 8.

 

[StAnastasia]

I don’t put any credence in his flawed thesis.Peace,Tim

Tim, do you doubt Clement Butel’s scientific credentials? Here they are:

“Clement Butel has a tertiary qualification in accountancy. He worked with an Australian government department from the middle of the Great Depression until his retirement in 1977. In the later years of his employment, he gained research and writing experience through having to investigate taxation disputes and to prepare precise statements of fact and law for use as briefs in taxation tribunals and court appeals.”

 

[StAnastasia]

But the point of the story is that God murdered all except 8.

Indeed.

 

[StAnastasia]

What sins can a one week old embryo commit? What sins can a one week old baby commit? Be specific please.rossum

Milk theft. Breach birth murder.

 

[StAnastasia]

I was under the impression that the Catholic Church had a concept of the ‘age of reason’, which IIRC is about seven years old. Below that age children are not considered capable of committing a sin because they do not yet have a full understanding of what sin is and what it entails.

Rossum, I think buffalo’s argument is that they are going to grow up to commit crimes, so preemptive murder is justifiable.

 

[edwest2]

Which means any scientific theory of evolution is acceptable. Science is unable to be strictly materialistic, because it can neither affirm nor deny that there are supernatural things.

Scientists do it all the time. The journal Nature tells us most leading scientists reject God. And they use scientific evidence to do so. The Church specifically states that atheistic evolution is not acceptable.

Peace,
Ed