Evolution

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Ouch.

I have seen all this before.

Gaps gaps and more gaps everyday. Give me a break. You are living in an illusion or just not informed.
Obviously given how I know what the scientific method entails. But hey, you’re absolutely correct. Me and everyone else who accepts (short list):

-Theory of Gravity (No scientist has created gravity in a lab!)
-Theory of Moving Celestial Bodies (No scientist has been able to move Celestial bodies!)
-Germ theory of disease (No scientiest has been able to to create germs ex nihilo in a lab and get ppl sick!)
-Theory of relativity (No scientist has gone faster than light!)

etc. etc.
 
As Catholics we are told that God formed man from clay. The Church accepts the hypothesis that He formed us from “clay” but the “clay” was transformed over millions of years through various life forms. This is in line with the scientific evidence.

At the same time we Catholics believe that all things and life forms are the creation of God. The “clay” (in the form of a physically evolved life form) has a soul that is created by God that is able to share His life. This also does not contradict science, it is out of the realm of science.

The real question that I (and I think others) see is that if we physically evolved (the “clay”) and are given our spiritual life by God, how are we now to understand Adam and Eve? Are they symbolic? Was Adam physically several men but spiritually as “one” being (since original sin had not yet ocurred)? I think we need teaching about this.
 
Obviously given how I know what the scientific method entails. But hey, you’re absolutely correct. Me and everyone else who accepts (short list):

-Theory of Gravity (No scientist has created gravity in a lab!)
-Theory of Moving Celestial Bodies (No scientist has been able to move Celestial bodies!)
-Germ theory of disease (No scientiest has been able to to create germs ex nihilo in a lab and get ppl sick!)
-Theory of relativity (No scientist has gone faster than light!)

etc. etc.
So are we back to “best explanations”?
 
The atheist comes here with an interpretation of what they call evidence, then, if any reject or even question their evidence, the Bible is attacked. Why is this my fellow Catholics? To promote atheism, that’s all.

“See here, we got dees facts and youse cant ignore dem.”

The Catholic Church allows us to believe Adam and Eve were specially created by God, freely committed Original Sin, which required the life and sacrifice of Jesus Christ. End of story.

We have divine revelation. The Church teaches that all truth points to God, not the science lab. Those who worship the mind of man only have scientism. There is no god for them, only science.

God bless,
Ed
 
My Reasoning on the matter

When you see the development of a cell with in a womb, one will notice that the cell divides and divides while forming one age of matter to another and so on.
Until it comes to a certain stage and stops developing and life is born.
This is dictated by the state of progression of that cell.
The egg of the womb is the earth within the womb (abode of space)
We are all cells from the body/ loins of God who is our Father and our lord Jesus Christ.
Cells are developed in stages according to its kind and sensory. Developed and formed by God’s will.
As mankind was created on the last stage by God Authority in his own image and likeness.
The breath of God gave him life as a living soul as well as a conscience, due to God dwelling in him.
As God spirit was not to stay with the flesh of man forever and man was appointed to live 120years
It is only by the holy spirit of God that transforms mankind from the current age in the flesh and be born new to the coming age in the spirit. (Evolved state of being)
As the intention of our Fathers work in all Creation in the beginning.
To evolve from one state to the next by his authority.
As a new earth and heaven will be created as a new earth and heaven was created at the beginning And procreation lives on forever and ever for the glory of God.
 
The atheist comes here with an interpretation of what they call evidence,
Yes, that pesky evidence. Obviously the work of Satan:rolleyes:
then, if any reject or even question their evidence, the Bible is attacked.
Sorry you’re literal interpretation of Gensis isn’t based on reality?
Why is this my fellow Catholics? To promote atheism, that’s all.
Of course given how I’ve mentioned atheism so many times in this thread. O wait, no I didn’t. Sorry chicken little:rolleyes:
“See here, we got dees facts and youse cant ignore dem.”
Yes, curse those nasty facts. Its okay though, your faith goggles are doing a great job of filtering out reality thus far.👍
We have divine revelation. The Church teaches that all truth points to God, not the science lab. Those who worship the mind of man only have scientism. There is no god for them, only science.
I hope you realize the irony of you attacking science on a computer. You realize that unless it is faith-power, you’ll sound like a hypocrite right?😃
 
Educate me then.
You could go back to the links I posted. One is “Scientific Method made easy” which explains how science works.

Another way to think of of the process of scientific method, is like a murder scene with item strewn about.

The dead body with knife wounds is evidence that a murder took place. You don’t need to murder someone int he exact same manner to know it happened. What you do is look at the evidence and put forth some hypothesis as to what happened. Then your fellow investigatos look at the same evidence (re-producing same finds), and if they all agree, then you make predictions as to what you should find. More evidence comes in, and if it matches what you predicted, then you have yourself a working theory as to what occured.
 
You could go back to the links I posted. One is “Scientific Method made easy” which explains how science works.

Another way to think of of the process of scientific method, is like a murder scene with item strewn about.

The dead body with knife wounds is evidence that a murder took place. You don’t need to murder someone int he exact same manner to know it happened. What you do is look at the evidence and put forth some hypothesis as to what happened. Then your fellow investigatos look at the same evidence (re-producing same finds), and if they all agree, then you make predictions as to what you should find. More evidence comes in, and if it matches what you predicted, then you have yourself a working theory as to what occured.
This scenario shows a limited set of variables.

Now as far as the universe goes - we see a small fragment. It is akin to having a jig saw with say 100,000 pieces. We have several thousand pieces and we are trying to figure out what the thing looks like.

Catholics enjoy the advantage of having an idea of the picture. We have metaphysics, philosophy as well as science to help us.
 
From our Pope:

The fate of all of us depends on whether this moral dignity of the human person can be defended in the world of technology, with all its possibilities. For here a particular temptation exists for our technical scientific age. The technical and scientific attitude has produced a particular kind of certitude – namely, that which can be corroborated by way of experiment and mathematical formula. This has given humankind a certain freedom from anxiety and superstition, a certain power over the world. But now there is a temptation to view as reasonable and therefore as serious only what can be corroborated through experiment and computation. This means that the moral and the holy no longer count for anything. They are considered to belong to the domain of what must be transcended, of the irrational. But whenever the human being does this, whenever we base ethics on physics, we extinguish what is particularly human, and we no longer liberate the human being but crush him or her.
 
Barbarian observes:
(discussion of the evidence for human descent)

Creationists react badly to the “E-word.”

… “Evidence.”
see post #17
Great example. Even when the Pope has said that it’s supported by evidence, creationists are still in denial.

As he says, the holy and transcendant is still true. To cite Pope JPII, truth cannot contradict truth.
 
Barbarian observes:
(discussion of the evidence for human descent)

Creationists react badly to the “E-word.”

… “Evidence.”

Great example. Even when the Pope has said that it’s supported by evidence, creationists are still in denial.

As he says, the holy and transcendant is still true. To cite Pope JPII, truth cannot contradict truth.
Try reading that whole thing again, in context.
 
Try reading that whole thing again, in context.
OK. This is what he was talking about in that document:

**Today, almost half a century after the publication of the encyclical, new knowledge has led to the recognition of the theory of evolution as more than a hypothesis. [Aujourdhui, près dun demi-siècle après la parution de l’encyclique, de nouvelles connaissances conduisent à reconnaitre dans la théorie de l’évolution plus qu’une hypothèse.] It is indeed remarkable that this theory has been progressively accepted by researchers, following a series of discoveries in various fields of knowledge. The convergence, neither sought nor fabricated, of the results of work that was conducted independently is in itself a significant argument in favor of this theory. **

Isn’t the context exactly what has you upset?
 
See Human Persons Created in the Image of God, part 69. Unlike the textbook, which assigns to purely natural causes the existence of life on earth, this document clearly tells Catholics: no God, no evolution. Buffalo’s quote is a perfect example of what Pope Benedict is concerned about, a scientific certitude that reduces man to a mere mechanism.

See The Abolition of Man by C.S. Lewis.

Science is naked and blind without God.

According to Pope John Paul II: “Science can purify religion from error and superstition. Religion can purify science from idolatry and false absolutes.”

The scientific idolatries are inherent in scientism and atheism. The idolatry is that the mind of man is sufficient by itself and should be exalted. The false absolutes are that man himself is little more than an animal and/or genetically motivated bag of chemicals.

God forbid.

God bless,
Ed
 
See Human Persons Created in the Image of God, part 69. Unlike the textbook, which assigns to purely natural causes the existence of life on earth, this document clearly tells Catholics: no God, no evolution.
I’ve seen you making this argument before, and I still don’t understand it. “The textbook” assigns “purely natural” causes to the existence of life on earth, yes… but that does not necessarily imply that there are no other causes. There’s nothing wrong with “the textbook” only addressing natural causes, since those are the only causes proper to the science. The student simply needs to understand that “these causes” discovered through biology don’t necessarily exclude “those causes” discovered from philosophy, and that in fact it is necessary for both to be known in order to reach the fullest understanding of the truth.
…what Pope Benedict is concerned about, a scientific certitude that reduces man to a mere mechanism.
Exactly.
According to Pope John Paul II: “Science can purify religion from error and superstition. Religion can purify science from idolatry and false absolutes.”
And what would you say if I said something this… (?)
Science can purify religion from error and superstition [ex. young earth creationism].
Religion can purify science from idolatry and false absolutes [ex. materialism, determinism].
 
OK. This is what he was talking about in that document:

**Today, almost half a century after the publication of the encyclical, new knowledge has led to the recognition of the theory of evolution as more than a hypothesis. [Aujourdhui, près dun demi-siècle après la parution de l’encyclique, de nouvelles connaissances conduisent à reconnaitre dans la théorie de l’évolution plus qu’une hypothèse.] It is indeed remarkable that this theory has been progressively accepted by researchers, following a series of discoveries in various fields of knowledge. The convergence, neither sought nor fabricated, of the results of work that was conducted independently is in itself a significant argument in favor of this theory. **

Isn’t the context exactly what has you upset?
From the document by the Pope.

In the Catholic perspective, neo-Darwinians who adduce random genetic variation and natural selection as evidence that the process of evolution is absolutely unguided are straying beyond what can be demonstrated by science.

An unguided evolutionary process – one that falls outside the bounds of divine providence – simply cannot exist because “the causality of God, Who is the first agent, extends to all being, not only as to constituent principles of species, but also as to the individualizing principles…It necessarily follows that all things, inasmuch as they participate in existence, must likewise be subject to divine providence” (Summa theologiae I, 22, 2).

Catholic theology affirms that that the emergence of the first members of the human species (whether as individuals or in populations) represents an event that is not susceptible of a purely natural explanation and which can appropriately be attributed to divine intervention.
 
I’ve seen you making this argument before, and I still don’t understand it. “The textbook” assigns “purely natural” causes to the existence of life on earth, yes… but that does not necessarily imply that there are no other causes. There’s nothing wrong with “the textbook” only addressing natural causes, since those are the only causes proper to the science. The student simply needs to understand that “these causes” discovered through biology don’t necessarily exclude “those causes” discovered from philosophy, and that in fact it is necessary for both to be known in order to reach the fullest understanding of the truth.

Exactly.

And what would you say if I said something this… (?)
Science can purify religion from error and superstition [ex. young earth creationism].
Religion can purify science from idolatry and false absolutes [ex. materialism, determinism].
Especially today, Creationist and Evolutionist are political terms just like Democrat and Republican, making them useless for research purposes in that context. Also, in the encyclical Humani Generis, it is clear that the Church welcomes research into evolution but mentions that claims for and against must be examined.

So-called Young Earth Creationism is not based on fantasy, but on anomolous reports. Fossilized trees extending through many strata of rock. Relatively recent reports of animals that appear to be dinosaurs. Finally, one needs to examine supernatural claims made by religions like Christianity.

On this forum, we are outside the science lab and can properly examine all this information.

Let us look at the public school system. Throughout its early days, the Bible was used in public schools in the United States as a standard text. In the early 1960s, kids recited the Pledge of Allegiance, which included the phrase: “One nation, under God…” An atheist was upset by this nonspecific God reference and we no longer said it. I think you’ve noticed the increased segregation of God and religious expression in the public square. Statues and memorials that have stood for decades have been removed. While I do not favor forcing my beliefs on anyone, a clear hostility toward religious expression in public has emerged. One good example, used here, is the conditioned response some have to the term Intelligent Design. It is not regarded as an interesting curiosity to be examined if you want, but like the plague, to be avoided at all costs. The few people who ask for evidence do not seem to be aware of the work done so far. I’ve seen a clearly biased reaction.

Would you like a reference to the Scientific American article from the turn of the last century that discounted as nonsense that the Wright brothers had flown a powered aircraft?

Children in public schools are not likely to get the full answer. If I said Britney or Angelina, they would respond. If I said DNA? The social order is different now and with renewed atheism, children are less likely to view religion as meaningful or relevant. Philosophy is no help if your reading skills are at the 8th grade level or lower. And with declining church attendance, odds are parents have little to share also.

Evolution according to the textbook is complete in and of itself, it needs nothing outside of it. Is that clear? Also, Cardinal Schoenborn and Pope Benedict have had to respond to scientists who go outside the bounds of what can be demonstrated by science to say evolution negates a role for God. Is that clear? Then people like Professor Richard Dawkins use their credentials and standing in the scientific community to go on television and say, “We no longer believe in the Greek or Roman gods, I’m simply adding one more.” He then goes on to give the textbook explanation of evolution. The average child watches 4 hours of TV a day. The connection is clear.

God bless,
Ed
 
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