Evolution?

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Reg << It’s aligned with the evolutionary “just so” stories site – that’s another one that never suffers from lack of material. >>

Here let me translate…

The giraffes absolutely positively evolved and absolutely positively had common ancestors, we just don’t know the precise, exact, and direct lineage of every single extinct species of those common ancestors that eventually led to modern Giraffes, so they probably evolved from common ancestors X, Y, and Z.

The “probably” part just means we don’t know the precise X, Y, Z yet, but we have a “good idea” based on this probable evidence outlined in the article.

Now do you understand how this science stuff works? :banghead: There’s no use arguing the giraffes were “created” on day 5 or 6. They are just too ugly and weird looking. 😃 Besides they would be sticking their heads, like the tallest dinosaurs, out of the roof of Noah’s Ark. Very uncomfortable with all that 40 days of water coming down on top of them. 👋

http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/GiraffeTwo.jpg

Phil P
 
They are just too ugly and weird looking. 😃
I thought you were joking the first time you said this but apparently you do think that they’re “ugly”. Apparently, you also think that God could not create “weird looking” creatures. This tells me a lot about what you think about God. For me, that’s more important than the lack of fossil record (admitted by Dawkins) for the giraffe.

Your idea that the giraffe is “ugly” is consistent and reasonable from an evolutionist’s perspective. For the Darwinist, the giraffe is an accidental product of mutations. It’s a mish-mash of parts of other accidentally produced creatures and it looks “ugly” because its “weird”. Again, that makes sense to me from the evolutionary perspective.

But it may be this reason alone that will never permit me to accept the far-fetched claims of Darwinism (aside from the lack of evidence and logic for them).

For myself, the giraffe is a profoundly beautiful creature. I think that first because it was created by God. It reflects the glory of God – not of an accidental process that “God didn’t know would happen” (to paraphrase Fr. George Coyne). I accept the traditional Catholic belief that God created the substance of all things – that is, the form by which we recognize a giraffe. Additionally, the “life” which a giraffe possesses comes from God also – not from matter. So, I see the beauty of God reflected in a giraffe. If I was a Darwinist I would think it was a mash-up of accidental mutations.

So I find that scientism, materialism and Darwinism are obstacles to understanding God’s creation. The more a person believes that life and God’s creation is the product of random, accidental forces the less appreciation the person will have for the wholeness of creation and of God’s creative power itself. To imagine that God would not create a “weird” creature is a problem. God creates weird creatures for a reason – to humble and inspire us and to teach us something about Himself.

We are warned about those who claim to understand God’s creation:

“And I understood that man can find no reason of all those works of God that are done under the sun: and the more he shall labor to seek, so much the less shall he find: yea, though the wise man shall say, that he knoweth it, he shall not be able to find it.” (Eccl 8:17).

“For the works of the Highest only are wonderful, and his works are glorious, secret, and hidden.” (Ecclus 11:4).

But the Darwinist will just laugh at the Holy Scripture and explain it away as being meaningless. This is why we have “Catholics” who do not accept that the substance of the Host is changed while the accidents remain.

The alternative is that I should simply believe the Darwinian just-so stories – as enjoyable and humorous as they are.
 
I’ve done a bit of looking at the giraffoids both living and fossil along with giraffes,and I’ve noted something no one else seems to have noticed.

The necks of these organisms get relatively longer, as their bodies get absolutely bigger.

The pronghorn isn’t much bigger than an average deer, and the neck is hardly longer than a deer its size might have. Okapis are considerably larger,and they have necks noticably longer in proportion to their size.

Fossil giraffes, like Sivatherium are much larger, and their necks are very much longer than normal, relative to their size, and of course, modern giraffes have enormously elongnated necks.

It appears that necks in giraffes originally formed as a consequence of increasing body size, by differential growth. This growth, called “allometry” can be found in a variety of different groups, such as ceratopsian dinosaurs (lenght of horn), titanotheres (length of horn) and theropod dinosaurs (size of front legs).

Note that giraffes do not normally use their necks for browsing; they eat primarily at lower levels. But the necks have become useful for observation, and more importantly, a weapon used by males in fights with each other.

It appears what began as a chance effect of larger size became useful at some point, and thereby open to natural selection.
 
Reg << Apparently, you also think that God could not create “weird looking” creatures. This tells me a lot about what you think about God. For me, that’s more important than the lack of fossil record (admitted by Dawkins) for the giraffe. >>

Yep no question. The ugly Giraffe was created from scratch by Satan…or it evolved. 😛

The beautiful Thumbelina Horse was created from scratch by God…or it evolved. :confused:

bringyou.to/ThumbHorse.jpg

👍

I don’t know myself when I am joking. Tough to figure me out sometimes.

Phil P
 
Here’s some thoughts on evolution from G K Chesterton:

Most modern histories of mankind begin with the word evolution, and with a rather wordy exposition of evolution, for much the same reason that operated in this case. There is something slow and soothing and gradual about the word and even about the idea. As a matter of fact it is not, touching these primary things, a very practical word or a very profitable idea. Nobody can imagine how nothing could turn into something. Nobody can get an inch nearer to it by explaining how something could turn into something else. It is really far more logical to start by saying ‘In the beginning God created heaven and earth’ even if you only mean ‘In the beginning some unthinkable power began some unthinkable process.’ For God is by its nature a name of mystery, and nobody ever supposed that man could imagine how a world was created any more than he could create one. But evolution really is mistaken for explanation. It has the fatal quality of leaving on many minds the impression that they do understand it and everything else; just as many of them live under a sort of illusion that they have read the Origin of Species.

But this notion of something smooth and slow like the ascent of a slope, is a great part of the illusion. It is an illogically as well as an illusion; for slowness has really nothing to do with the question. An event is not any more intrinsically intelligible or unintelligible because of the pace at which it moves. For a man who does not believe in a miracle, a slow miracle would be just as incredible as a swift one. The Greek witch may have turned sailors to swine with a stroke of the wand. But to see a naval gentleman of our acquaintance looking a little more like a pig every day, till he ended with four trotters and a curly tail would not be any more soothing. It might be rather more creepy and uncanny. The medieval wizard may have flown through the air from the top of a tower; but to see an old gentleman walking through the air in a leisurely and lounging manner, would still seem to call for some explanation. Yet there runs through all the rationalistic treatment of history this curious and confused idea that difficulty is avoided or even mystery eliminated, by dwelling on mere delay or on something dilatory in the processes of things. There will be something to be said upon particular examples elsewhere; the question here is the false atmosphere of facility and ease given by the mere suggestion of going slow; the sort of comfort that might be given to a nervous old woman traveling for the first time in a motor-car.
 
The funny thing is that all this talk about the evolution of the giraffe, if it is correct, is merely a species showing differing traits through time.
Of the multitude of sub species of canines, with all the various observable traits, even with the selective breeding to create new sub species, they all remain canines and do not become other than a canine.
What evolution has consistently failed to demonstrate, is the macroevolutionary process. It seems an incredible leap of faith to believe that animals suddenly became warm blooded to adapt to their environment. This is just one example, but how do animal bodies just begin to produce their own heat by adaptation. This would not be survival of the best suited, but rather suggests, if true, manipulation by an intelligence.
Evolution also fails to explain the feather; if the bat can fly without feathers then why did birds supposedly evole feathers? If just for warmth, why did birds in tropical climates also develope feathers. Obviously this would be less problematic if there were still reptiles that fly since it is contended that there once was. Or is it just possible that paleantologists are wrong, and there were no flying reptiles, but the fossils really show birds with different traits.
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  So do life forms evolve? Yes, if we mean they change certain characteristics, but I would contend No, if we mean they become something entirely different than what they were, at least it's not demonstrable (so far). 

 On a side note; since scientist have been able to produce fossilization under extreme presssure in short period of time, it is proven that fossilization can happen in a short period of time under extreme pressure, and only a possibility that it could take millions of years.
 
Yes - and does any one really think that Man evolved from Apes?
 
The funny thing is that all this talk about the evolution of the giraffe, if it is correct, is merely a species showing differing traits through time.
True. Speaking of the giraffe, after the claims about the so-called evolution of the giraffe, I found this. Here’s a scientist who finally admits that the old fairytale told by evolutionists since Darwin’s time is false. He figured it out not by observing fossils (for which there are none showing the giraffe’s supposed evolution) but by noticing that giraffes actually eat grass – not the leaves at the top of trees.
So here’s one scientist who completely reverses the so-called evolutionary “fact” simply by looking at the most obvious and common-sense features of the giraffe.
Doesn’t that tell us that the Darwinian theory is built on a lot of fantasies and made-up stories? It does for me.

Of course, this evolutionist makes up another completely ridiculous just-so story about the giraffe, claiming that the long neck is a result of a mating ritual (what about the long legs???).
How the Giraffe Got Its Neck
Darwin was the first to propose that long necks evolved in giraffes because they enabled the animals to eat foliage beyond the reach of shorter browsers. That seemingly sensible explanation has held up for over a century, but it is probably wrong, says Robert Simmons. Simmons, a behavioral ecologist at the Ministry of Environment and Tourism in Windhoek, Namibia, believes giraffes developed long necks not to compete for food but to win mates.
As Simmons watched the fight, he became convinced that this competition for mates, not stretching for treetop food, was what drove the evolution of the neck. If competition for food had spurred the elongation, says Simmons, then you would expect giraffes to graze mainly from tall acacia trees beyond the reach of other savanna inhabitants. But giraffes feed mostly with their necks bent, along low bushes. Moreover, their short, stubby horns **probably evolved **to better concentrate the force of their head blows.
I don’t know how anyone can take this seriously.
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  Of the multitude of sub species of canines, with all the various observable traits, even with the selective breeding to create new sub species, they all remain canines and do not become other than a canine.
Good point.
Evolution also fails to explain the feather; if the bat can fly without feathers then why did birds supposedly evole feathers? If just for warmth, why did birds in tropical climates also develope feathers.
There are really no answers given for these kinds of things.

My favorite concept remains the whole idea of “convergent evolution”. This is something that was invented because completely unrelated animals showed exactly the same kind of unique body parts. So the “theory” was, they evolved those parts completely independently. One instance is “old world vultures” and “New World vultures”. They supposedly both evolved from different ancestors but they look and act the same – like vultures do.

So to see these iconic birds supposedly evolve though blind, accidental mutations one time in history would be improbable enough. But we’re supposed to believe that the same random process created an identical species of birds a second time – completely independently.

There are many examples like this. The evolution of the eye, for example. Seahorses and chamelions have very similar eyes that move independently. It is claimed that these just evolved on their own entirely independently, from different ancestors.

Fortunately, some more honest scientists are starting to notice how ridiculous this is. But instead of wondering if some intelligent cause was responsible for these amazing features of nature, they came up with an even more ridiculous theory – “self organization”. They’re claiming that nature “just created” these wonderful animals in a spontaneous burst of complexity and order.

I think we’d call that “a miracle of God’s intervention” but the materialist evolutionary culture is trying to claim this as some kind of scientific theory.
 
Yes - and does any one really think that Man evolved from Apes?
Some people actually believe that.

As Chesterton wisely pointed out, just saying something took a long, long time, doesn’t mean that it’s still not absurdly improbable.

No matter how long we wait, apes do not turn into human beings. In fact, apes are no more intelligent now then they have been since the beginning of recorded history.
 
Yes - and does any one really think that Man evolved from Apes?
Some people actually believe that.
Scientists don’t, except in the trivial sense that humans are apes. Apes, as we use the term, are far to evolved to have ever produced humans. Rather, apes and humans have a common ancestor.
As Chesterton wisely pointed out, just saying something took a long, long time, doesn’t mean that it’s still not absurdly improbable.
Nor does uninformed skepticism mean anything to truth. One fellow who took some time to learn about the evidence, wrote this:

While the story of human origins is complex and subject to revision, physical anthropology and molecular biology combine to make a convincing case for the origin of the human species in Africa about 150,000 years ago in a humanoid population of common genetic lineage.

Can you guess who?
 
True. Speaking of the giraffe, after the claims about the so-called evolution of the giraffe, I found this. Here’s a scientist who finally admits that the old fairytale told by evolutionists since Darwin’s time is false. He figured it out not by observing fossils (for which there are none showing the giraffe’s supposed evolution) but by noticing that giraffes actually eat grass – not the leaves at the top of trees.
Old news. This has been known for a long time. But the real story isn’t what you read there, either.
Of course, this evolutionist makes up another completely ridiculous just-so story about the giraffe, claiming that the long neck is a result of a mating ritual (what about the long legs???).
The long neck is quite useful as a weapon in competition for mates; some giraffe bulls have died as a result of such fighting. But if you think about it, this could not have evolved by selection until necks got long enough to swing well. That was later after long necks formed.

But if you look at the different giraffoids like the pronghorn “antelope”, the okapi, sivatherium, etc. you notice something interesting. The larger the giraffoid is absolutely, the longer the neck is relatively. Pronghorns are big deer size, and have only slightly longer necks. Okapis are considerably bigger, and have relatively longer necks. There is a series of fossil giraffes, with relative neck size related to absolute body size. This is called “allometry”, the differential growth of different parts. A good example is antlers in deer.

So the neck grew longer by allometric growth as giraffes got larger and larger. Eventually, they got long enough to be useful, and only then subject to natural selection.
Of the multitude of sub species of canines, with all the various observable traits, even with the selective breeding to create new sub species, they all remain canines and do not become other than a canine.
Turns out that’s wrong. There was a point at which canines didn’t exist. There were fossils of vaguely doglike/bearlike animals which eventually gave rise to dogs and bears.

Would you like to learn about them?
Evolution also fails to explain the feather;
Turns out that feathers can be induced to form from scutes (special sorts of scales found on birds, crocodiles, and dinosaurs)
dinosauria.com/jdp/archie/scutes.htm
if the bat can fly without feathers then why did birds supposedly evole feathers?
The first feathers, judging from fossil dinosaurs, were for display. Only secondarily do we see them as insulation, and even later for flight.
If just for warmth, why did birds in tropical climates also develope feathers.
I don’t know that they did. The first feathered organisms were in temperate zones AFAIK.
My favorite concept remains the whole idea of “convergent evolution”. This is something that was invented because completely unrelated animals showed exactly the same kind of unique body parts.
Not hard to figure that out. Dolphins, sharks, and icthyosaurs all have a tapered, streamlined body. Turns out that’s essential for fast movement in water. But the structures involved are all formed from different things.
One instance is “old world vultures” and “New World vultures”. They supposedly both evolved from different ancestors but they look and act the same – like vultures do.
No. In fact, the difference in behavior was the first tip-off that they were polyphyletic. New World vultures find food primarily by smell, but Old World vultures do so primarily by sight. When DNA testing was feasible, a check showed that they were indeed polyphyletic as indicated by the differences in behavior.

ID/Creationism can only shrug and mutter “Godmustadunnit.” But science can show how He did it.
So to see these iconic birds supposedly evolve though blind, accidental mutations one time in history would be improbable enough.
Pretty much impossible. But they didn’t do it that way. Darwin’s discovery was that it was random change and natural selection.
But we’re supposed to believe that the same random process created an identical species of birds a second time – completely independently.
That’s the issue. It isn’t random.
There are many examples like this. The evolution of the eye, for example. Seahorses and chamelions have very similar eyes that move independently.
They only work in similar ways, but the way they are constructed is quite different. Again, natural selection produced the same solution for the same problem, but in different ways.

As you can see, ID/creationism depends on not knowing the details. When you learn more about it, you see that only evolution can account for these things.
 
Scientists don’t, except in the trivial sense that humans are apes. Apes, as we use the term, are far to evolved to have ever produced humans. Rather, apes and humans have a common ancestor.
Yes, some people believe that human beings are actually apes.
Nor does uninformed skepticism mean anything to truth. One fellow who took some time to learn about the evidence, wrote this:
While the story of human origins is complex and subject to revision, physical anthropology and molecular biology combine to make a convincing case for the origin of the human species in Africa about 150,000 years ago in a humanoid population of common genetic lineage.
Can you guess who?
Given the fact that you’ve only quoted it about 30 times now, I will say that it’s good to see that he says nothing about humans being animals or apes – nor does he say that human beings evolved from animals or apes.

This “fellow” doesn’t support the Darwinian story with this quote.
 
That’s the issue. It isn’t random.
That’s a strange thing to say.

I notice Kenneth Miller’s textbook says:
“[E]volution works without either plan or purpose … Evolution is random and undirected.”
(Biology, by Kenneth R. Miller & Joseph S. Levine, pg. 658 (4th edition, Prentice Hall, 1998)
Additionally, a recent textbook (Evolution, Nicholas Barton et al., 2007) says that there is “extreme randomness [in] the evolutionary process” (p. 435).
And
“Seen in detail, however, the evolutionary process is fundamentally random.” (p. 413)
" . . we begin our consideration of the processes responsible for evolution by emphasizing the randomness of evolution. (p. 413)"

Robert Ornstein’s Prentice Hall text The Evolution of Consciousness explains that mutations “are accidents” and “happen by random generation.” Ornstein concludes that we are the result of “countless historical accidents”

Robert Ornstein, The Evolution of Consciousness: Of Darwin, Freud, and Cranial Fire-The Origins of the Way We Think, pg. 267(Prentice Hall, 1990)

1995 Prentice Hall textbook, Exploring Life Science
explains that **“one of the driving forces behind evolution is mutations” which are “chance events.” **
 
Scientists don’t, except in the trivial sense that humans are apes. Apes, as we use the term, are far to evolved to have ever produced humans. Rather, apes and humans have a common ancestor.

Nor does uninformed skepticism mean anything to truth. One fellow who took some time to learn about the evidence, wrote this:

While the story of human origins is complex and subject to revision, physical anthropology and molecular biology combine to make a convincing case for the origin of the human species in Africa about 150,000 years ago in a humanoid population of common genetic lineage.

Can you guess who?
He also wrote this:

bringyou.to/apologetics/p81.htm

Pope Benedict XVI

Monod nonetheless finds the possibility for evolution in the fact that in the very propagation of the project there can be mistakes in the act of transmission. Because nature is conservative, these mistakes, once having come into existence, are carried on. Such mistakes can add up, and from the adding up of mistakes something new can arise. Now an astonishing conclusion follows: It was in this way that the whole world of living creatures, and human beings themselves, came into existence. We are the product of “haphazard mistakes.”

What response shall we make to this view? It is the affair of the natural sciences to explain how the tree of life in particular continues to grow and how new branches shoot out from it. This is not a matter for faith. But we must have the audacity to say that the great projects of the living creation are not the products of chance and error. Nor are they the products of a selective process to which divine predicates can be attributed in illogical, unscientific, and even mythic fashion. The great projects of the living creation point to a creating Reason and show us a creating Intelligence, and they do so more luminously and radiantly today than ever before. Thus we can say today with a new certitude and joyousness that the human being is indeed a divine project, which only the creating Intelligence was strong and great and audacious enough to conceive of. Human beings are not a mistake but something willed; they are the fruit of love. They can disclose in themselves, in the bold project that they are, the language of the creating Intelligence that speaks to them and that moves them to say: Yes, Father, you have willed me.

God bless,
Ed
 
Turns out that’s wrong. There was a point at which canines didn’t exist. There were fossils of vaguely doglike/bearlike animals which eventually gave rise to dogs and bears.
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 The fossilized record of dog like/ bear like creatures is evidence that there once existed bearlike/doglike creatures not that bears and dogs evolved from it.  Call me simplistic, but if it was an omnivore, then it would point to a bear with dog like features, and if a carnivore a dog with bearlike features. more importantly how exactly do cannines on 6 continents all retain the distinguishing charachteristics that make them canines
Turns out that feathers can be induced to form from scutes (special sorts of scales found on birds, crocodiles, and dinosaurs)
dinosauria.com/jdp/archie/scutes.htm
The first feathers, judging from fossil dinosaurs, were for display. Only secondarily do we see them as insulation, and even later for flight.
Exactly the point. It is ‘judging from the fossil record’, which infers subjective extrapolation.
I don’t know that they did. The first feathered organisms were in temperate zones AFAIK.
This assumes that the fossil record that has been unearthed is complete and acurately judged. When I was a child I was taught the ‘truth’ that T-rex was the biggest, baddest predator on the dinosaur block. Now T-rex is not the biggest, and there is contention amongst paleantologist as to whether T-rex was a predator or just a scavenger.
ID/Creationism can only shrug and mutter “Godmustadunnit.” But science can show how He did it.
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No, an honest creationist holds that the creator created all life forms, and that it was accomplished how He chose, whether evolutionary proccesses were used or not. To be more accurate, scientist have used science to speculate on the origens of life and the evolutionary theory.
As you can see, ID/creationism depends on not knowing the details. When you learn more about it, you see that only evolution can account for these things.
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 Knowing details is great, when tempered with the humility that one may misread details.
 I don't deny that God could have used evolution in the process of creation.But I believe there is a concerted effort to make the facts fit the details (admittedly on both sides).
 
He also wrote this:

bringyou.to/apologetics/p81.htm

Pope Benedict XVI

What response shall we make to this view? It is the affair of the natural sciences to explain how the tree of life in particular continues to grow and how new branches shoot out from it. This is not a matter for faith. But we must have the audacity to say that the great projects of the living creation are not the products of chance and error. Nor are they the products of a selective process to which divine predicates can be attributed in illogical, unscientific, and even mythic fashion. The great projects of the living creation point to a creating Reason and show us a creating Intelligence, and they do so more luminously and radiantly today than ever before. Thus we can say today with a new certitude and joyousness that the human being is indeed a divine project, which only the creating Intelligence was strong and great and audacious enough to conceive of. Human beings are not a mistake but something willed; they are the fruit of love. They can disclose in themselves, in the bold project that they are, the language of the creating Intelligence that speaks to them and that moves them to say: Yes, Father, you have willed me.

God bless,
Ed
This is beautiful and so true.
 
I don’t have much knowledge about evolution
Then you would do better to learn some more about the subject before posting. Try reading Understanding Evolution.
but from what I do know, it doesn’t make any sense to me.
Personal incredulitty is not a valid argument, especially when you admit to little knowledge of the subject.
It is not really a religious belief.
Correct. It is science, not religion.
I understand that natural selection is when the weaker individuals die off and the stronger survive.
You misunderstand here. Evolution is about genes and how many genes survive from one generation to the next. Being strong and having no children is of no use. Being weak and having lots of children is much more useful. Dying is only important if you die before having children; dying after is less important - remember what happens to some male spiders and mantises.
But, nothing is changing there.
The genetic makeup of the population is changing and that is evolution.
I believe evolution says that all life came from the ocean.
Correct. The evidence shows that life originated in the ocean.
If something has been living in the ocean, it will not be able to survive on land.
Amphibians can do both. Crabs can do both. Lobsters can do both. Lungfish can do both. Mudskippers can do both. Seals can do both. There are many organisms that can live on both land and water.
According to evolution, at one point, an organism in the ocean had a child that went on to the land.
This is where your misunderstanding of evolution is showing. An organism that spent 95% of its life in the water had offspring that spent 94.5% of their lives in the water. Evolution is a gradual process.
I thought evolution happened by chance?
Evolution is defined as the change in the genetic makeup of a population over time. Some of the mechanisms for that change involve chance, others do not. Random mutation, founder effect and neutral drift involve chance. Natural selection is not a chance process.
If it were by chance, then only one organism would have made it on to the land. How did it reproduce?
Evolution is a population phenomenon; a population of individuals would have made their way onto land. Also notice that amphibians still have to return to water to breed, that is a further clue for you.

rossum
 
Barbarian observes:
Turns out that’s wrong. There was a point at which canines didn’t exist. There were fossils of vaguely doglike/bearlike animals which eventually gave rise to dogs and bears.
The fossilized record of dog like/ bear like creatures is evidence that there once existed bearlike/doglike creatures not that bears and dogs evolved from it.
Would have been, if that’s all there was. But evolutionary theory predicted such things, and then they were found. And when we check the DNA of dogs and bears, they fit nicely into the same nested hierarchy that fossils show us, so we know it’s a matter of descent.
Call me simplistic,
Not simplistic; you just didn’t know all the evidence.
but if it was an omnivore, then it would point to a bear with dog like features, and if a carnivore a dog with bearlike features. more importantly how exactly do cannines on 6 continents all retain the distinguishing charachteristics that make them canines
Common descent. All mammals with canines have a common descent.

Barbarian observes:
Turns out that feathers can be induced to form from scutes (special sorts of scales found on birds, crocodiles, and dinosaurs)
dinosauria.com/jdp/archie/scutes.htm
The first feathers, judging from fossil dinosaurs, were for display. Only secondarily do we see them as insulation, and even later for flight.
Exactly the point. It is ‘judging from the fossil record’, which infers subjective extrapolation.
It is merely going where the evidence takes you. That is intellectual honesty.
I don’t know that they did. The first feathered organisms were in temperate zones AFAIK.
This assumes that the fossil record that has been unearthed is complete and acurately judged.
No. It merely says that the evidence so far is that feathers appeared in temperate zones first.
When I was a child I was taught the ‘truth’ that T-rex was the biggest, baddest predator on the dinosaur block.
That was not the scientific consensus. But a lot of people thought so. It was just the biggest theropod known at the time, which is what the literature said.
Now T-rex is not the biggest, and there is contention amongst paleantologist as to whether T-rex was a predator or just a scavenger.
Likely both, according to the consensus. The fact that a ceratopsian fossil has a healed damage to it’s collar that precisely fits a T-rex tooth pretty much settles the predator thing.

Barbarian observes:
ID/Creationism can only shrug and mutter “Godmustadunnit.” But
science can show how He did it.

Barbarian observes:
As you can see, ID/creationism depends on not knowing the details. When you learn more about it, you see that only evolution can account for these things.
Knowing details is great, when tempered with the humility that one may misread details.
Read the literature and learn about that. There is far more caution in scientific literature than you will find in creationist/ID writing.
 
So how can Pope Benedict assert that humans evolved from other organisms, and still insist that we are not the product of mistakes?

Read further, and learn why.

Hint: He writes that contingency is not outside of divine providence.
 
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