Evolution

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query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9804E4DC173BF931A25754C0A9679C8B63

Of particular importance, experts on human origins say, is the evidence that these early hominids lived in a relatively wet and cool **forest **because the prevailing theory had been that hominids evolved in grasslands after forests disappeared. The forest was a hostile environment of shifting terrain, exploding volcanoes and menacing lava flows.
Your fossil is too early. I asked for an early Homo fossil, the Ardipithecus you refer to is a long time before that. I know that our LCA with chimps was a forest dweller, so soon after the split our ancestors would probably have lived in the margins of forests, venturing out onto the plains sometimes. I repeat that all early Homo fossils have been found in plains environments.

rossum
 
Yes, and here’s another thing that puzzles me. Today, there exist on earth BOTH men and apes. But if men evolved from apes, why do apes still exist? Also why aren’t their any ape-like men on earth today?
One thing you may not know is that ALL the apemen were faked.
There never has been found and there never will be found a creature that is less than human and more than ape.

Even Scientists admin that all the apemen were faked. And clumsy fakes at that. If you want more info on evolution then download the iso at www.isidore.org.au and see for yourself. (go to the pub directory and download the iso. Then burn this to CD.)

There is also there a CD on Miracles, which is the answer to Evolution. Miracles do not occur in a mindless evolutionary universe. Miracles occur in a universe within the mind of God.
 
Your fossil is too early. I asked for an early Homo fossil, the Ardipithecus you refer to is a long time before that. I know that our LCA with chimps was a forest dweller, so soon after the split our ancestors would probably have lived in the margins of forests, venturing out onto the plains sometimes. I repeat that all early Homo fossils have been found in plains environments.
According to the article cited:
In that case, the development of upright walking, considered a definitive characteristic of hominids, presumably occurred in a wooded habitat and not as an adaptation to life on the treeless savanna, as had been supposed. Dr. WoldeGabriel’s team said the new findings required ‘‘a fundamental reassessment’’ of favored theoretical models ‘‘that invoke a significant role for global climate change and/or savanna habitat in the origin of hominids.’’
Calling this ‘‘a very dramatic development in terms of our knowledge of bipedality in hominids and apes,’’ Dr. Lovejoy said in an interview that the evidence tended ‘‘to falsify many previous hypotheses that related the development of both hominids and bipedality to an occupation of savannas.’’
These scientists claim that there must be a “fundamental reassessment” about the notion that upright walking evoloved due to “adaptation of life on the treeless savanah”.
 
One thing you may not know is that ALL the apemen were faked.
There never has been found and there never will be found a creature that is less than human and more than ape.

Even Scientists admin that all the apemen were faked. And clumsy fakes at that. If you want more info on evolution then download the iso at www.isidore.org.au and see for yourself. (go to the pub directory and download the iso. Then burn this to CD.)

There is also there a CD on Miracles, which is the answer to Evolution. Miracles do not occur in a mindless evolutionary universe. Miracles occur in a universe within the mind of God.
Good points.
I want to access that site but it’s down at the moment.
Since God exists, some aspect of intelligent design and creationism must be true.
The difference between human beings and animals is more than science can explain – and yet at the same time, it’s obvious enough that any child can recognize the difference.
As St. Thomas teaches, the human soul can apprehend the substance of things through intuition.
We can see an ape and a human being, and we recognize that they are radically different creatures on the order of being.
 
These scientists claim that there must be a “fundamental reassessment” about the notion that upright walking evoloved due to “adaptation of life on the treeless savanah”.
That article was dated 2001. The standard picture today is that Ardipithecus and Australopithecus evolved in a tree savannah - plains with trees. Both are adapted for climbing as well as for upright walking. Later climate change removed the trees, driving more evolution. Hence Homo is less well adapted for climbing and better at long distance running and at outwitting predators. With trees a very simple strategy like “run to the nearest tree and climb it” avoids most predators. On treeless plains more sophisticated strategies are needed to avoid lions. In effect, the reassessment mentioned in 2001 has already taken place. Our very early ancestors, close to the split from the chimp line, lived in an environment with trees, though generally not in a forest. Our more recent ancestors lived in a treeless environment on open plains. Homo sapiens has spread to many more environments, including back into forests.

rossum
 
One thing you may not know is that ALL the apemen were faked.
False. Whatever source you got this from is lying to you. The only known hominid fake in Piltdown Man, which has been recognised as a fake since the 1950s.
There never has been found and there never will be found a creature that is less than human and more than ape.
Correct, since on the definitions you are probably using “ape” and “human” are right next to each other. You will never find a piece of land between the USA and Canada because the two meet at a common border. That does not mean that it is impossible to travel between the two. Ape (non-human Hominidae) and humans meet at a common border so you will never find a species lying in between. For most practical purposes, any species with an average brain size of 500 cc or greater is assigned to genus Homo, any species with less than 500 cc is assigned to one of the other genera in the Hominidae, such as Australopithecus. There is no room in between for anything else, just as there is no land between the USA and Canada along their common border.
Even Scientists admin that all the apemen were faked. And clumsy fakes at that.
References please. You need to justify your claim that all were faked, not just Piltdown.

Please support your accusations or withdraw them.

rossum
 
That article was dated 2001. The standard picture today is that Ardipithecus and Australopithecus evolved in a tree savannah - plains with trees. Both are adapted for climbing as well as for upright walking. Later climate change removed the trees, driving more evolution. Hence Homo is less well adapted for climbing and better at long distance running and at outwitting predators. With trees a very simple strategy like “run to the nearest tree and climb it” avoids most predators. On treeless plains more sophisticated strategies are needed to avoid lions. In effect, the reassessment mentioned in 2001 has already taken place. Our very early ancestors, close to the split from the chimp line, lived in an environment with trees, though generally not in a forest. Our more recent ancestors lived in a treeless environment on open plains. Homo sapiens has spread to many more environments, including back into forests.

rossum
2000 years ago the supposedly primeval rainforest of central Africa was grassland. Forest, savannah and environments can change amazingly quickly. Could a monkey change into a man in a few thousand years because his trees suddenly started to disappear. Or, why does not the stone-age tribes of New Guinea, who build wonderful treehouses, and who have lived undisturbed in a jungle environment for thousands of years, probably, not evolve the very practical adaptations needed for climbing trees, like Ardipithecus and Australopithecus did.
 
One thing you may not know is that ALL the apemen were faked.
There never has been found and there never will be found a creature that is less than human and more than ape.

Even Scientists admin that all the apemen were faked. And clumsy fakes at that. If you want more info on evolution then download the iso at www.isidore.org.au and see for yourself. (go to the pub directory and download the iso. Then burn this to CD.)

There is also there a CD on Miracles, which is the answer to Evolution. Miracles do not occur in a mindless evolutionary universe. Miracles occur in a universe within the mind of God.
This is from ReggieM’s site:

Working with Dr. Tim D. White of Berkeley, one of the most experienced hominid hunters, Mr. Haile-Selassie and colleagues found the fossils in the Middle Awash River Valley badlands of Ethiopia, about 50 miles from where the ‘‘Lucy’’ skeleton, which is 3.2 million years old, was uncovered 30 years ago. The new find includes 11 specimens, including a jawbone with teeth, hand and foot bones, fragments of arm bones and a piece of collarbone. They represent at least five individuals.

Dr. White said an accurate portrayal of these creatures was not yet possible because an intact skull or limb bones had not been found. The size of the lower jaw and some bones of the skeleton suggests that one of these individuals was about the size of a modern chimpanzee.
query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9804E4DC173BF931A25754C0A9679C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=2

How can these evolutionists think they can trick us into believing that with a few teeth and jaw bones, they can reconstruct an whole apeman? Just sounds like monkey business to me!🙂
 
2000 years ago the supposedly primeval rainforest of central Africa was grassland.
Some of it might have been, just as some of what is now grassland was then forest. Do you have evidence that all of what is now forest was once savannah?
Forest, savannah and environments can change amazingly quickly. Could a monkey change into a man in a few thousand years because his trees suddenly started to disappear.
A single monkey will not change, it will live, reproduce and die. A population of monkeys has a number of possibilities such as moving to an area with more trees, adapting to a treeless environment or going extinct. You also need to be aware that biologically we are apes and not monkeys: monkeys have tails, apes do not. Ignorance of the subject you are discussing is not generally helpful. I suggest you learn more about biology so you can avoid mistakes like this in future and make a better job of presenting of your case.
Or, why does not the stone-age tribes of New Guinea, who build wonderful treehouses, and who have lived undisturbed in a jungle environment for thousands of years, probably, not evolve the very practical adaptations needed for climbing trees, like Ardipithecus and Australopithecus did.
It is quite possible that the inhabitants of New Guinea have some adaptations for their environment, we can certainly see such adaptations in other human populations. Ardipithecus and Australopithecus did not actually evolve their tree-climbing adaptations, they inherited them from their ancestor. It is us who lost such adaptations while chimpanzees have retained them from the common ancestor.

rossum
 
How can these evolutionists think they can trick us into believing that with a few teeth and jaw bones, they can reconstruct an whole apeman?
The quote you gave explicitly said that they could not “reconstruct a whole apeman”: Dr. White said an accurate portrayal of these creatures was not yet possible because an intact skull or limb bones had not been found.
We can tell if a tooth comes from an ape by the shape of the tooth. We can tell if the tooth is from a new species of ape by comparing it with teeth from known species. We can get a general idea of its size: “The size of the lower jaw and some bones of the skeleton suggests that one of these individuals was about the size of a modern chimpanzee.”

Nobody, apart from yourself, is trying to reconstruct a whole apeman on the basis of these remains.

rossum
 
The quote you gave explicitly said that they could not “reconstruct a whole apeman”: Dr. White said an accurate portrayal of these creatures was not yet possible because an intact skull or limb bones had not been found.
We can tell if a tooth comes from an ape by the shape of the tooth. We can tell if the tooth is from a new species of ape by comparing it with teeth from known species. We can get a general idea of its size: “The size of the lower jaw and some bones of the skeleton suggests that one of these individuals was about the size of a modern chimpanzee.”

Nobody, apart from yourself, is trying to reconstruct a whole apeman on the basis of these remains.

rossum
Sounds like pretty flimsy evidence to me!
 
Not extinct. Nor is it a “living fossil.” It’s a representative of a group that was thought to have gone extinct millions of years ago. But an entirely different genus, not known in the fossil record. This relict population was able to adapt to the rough times, and survive to the present day, albeit in a different form than the original group.

Very cool discovery. Nothing that requires a “reassessment”, however.
 
(Claim that one can infer the order of a mammal from one tooth)
Sounds like pretty flimsy evidence to me!
It can be done. I’ve had to do it. The reason that it’s possible is that teeth in mammals are highly variable and the most useful single feature for classifying fossil mammals. Which is fortunate, because teeth are harder than anything else in a mammal, and tend to survive. Often, many fossil rodents are known only from their surviving teeth.

From the size (and sometimes the robustness) of certain bones, one can infer much about the rest of the animal. It’s an interesting science, one that depends on the principle of allometry. For example, if you tell me what the size of a theropod humerus is, I can apply a forumula that gives you the size of the whole animal. It’s a rather interesting case, because as theropods grow absolutely bigger, their forelimbs become relatively small.
 
(Claim that one can infer the order of a mammal from one tooth)

It can be done. I’ve had to do it. The reason that it’s possible is that teeth in mammals are highly variable and the most useful single feature for classifying fossil mammals. Which is fortunate, because teeth are harder than anything else in a mammal, and tend to survive. Often, many fossil rodents are known only from their surviving teeth.
What did you identify?
 
2000 years ago the supposedly primeval rainforest of central Africa was grassland. Forest, savannah and environments can change amazingly quickly. Could a monkey change into a man in a few thousand years because his trees suddenly started to disappear. Or, why does not the stone-age tribes of New Guinea, who build wonderful treehouses, and who have lived undisturbed in a jungle environment for thousands of years, probably, not evolve the very practical adaptations needed for climbing trees, like Ardipithecus and Australopithecus did.
Because they have invented tools and devices to do it for them.

For humans, cultural innovation rapidly outpaces biological innovation, and makes adaptation unnecessary. Works that way with chimps, too. They eat a lot of termites, and long thin digit like that of an Aye-Aye would be useful to them. But they long ago invented probing tools that allow them to get the termites without any adaptations.
 
(Barbarian notes that teeth can be used to identify animals)

Different orders of mammals. Rodents, lagomorphs, carnivores, xenarthrans, among others.
Oh, REAL animals!
All animals that leave teeth are real.
 
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