Evolution

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Originally Posted by The Barbarian forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
There is considerable evidence for abiogenesis, although it’s not yet settled. Would you like to learn about it?
Give me until tomorrow; I’ll make it worth the wait.
Dear Barbarian,

I see that there have been a lot of interesting but time consuming discussions. Nonetheless, I still would like to learn about the evidence for abiogenesis when you find some time.
Thank you.

Blessings,
granny

All human beings were loved into existence by God.
 
Sorry about taking so long. There’s a lot of stuff, and it’s not my specialty.

"In the natural sciences, abiogenesis, or origin of life, is the study of how life on Earth could have arisen from inanimate matter. It should not be confused with evolution, which is the study of how living things change over time." - Wikipedia

Let’s go from there. So abiogenesis isn’t evolution. It’s not spontaneous generation, either. Spontaneous generation was the idea that complex animals could appear from decaying organic matter, something obviously quite different from the orgin of life.

So what was the first scientific evidence? A. I. Oparin, noting the abundance of organic matter on other planets, hypothesized a reducing atmosphere for the earth, in which prebiotic reactions could occur. (This hypothesis was later confirmed by the presence of reduced iron compounds, which could only have formed in a reducing atmosphere) Oparin also discovered coacervates, which are vesicles spontaneously formed by some organic molecules. They feature a membrane, internal chemical concentrations that are maintained by differential movement through the surface, but do not reproduce.

Later, it was discovered that basic cell membranes are very simple bilayers of phospholipids that also spontaneously form vesicles.

http://www.sp.uconn.edu/~terry/images/cell/bilayer.gif

Over time, additional components have become associated with the bilayer, but it was a bit of a shock to see that the basic cell boundary was so very simple. A better boundary could probably be designed, but since the membrane was an absolute first step in the evolution of cellular life, it’s not surprising that it’s simpler than most everything else.

Miller-Urey, using chemicals and conditions that existed in pre-biotic Earth, showed that amino acids can form abiotically. The discovery of the Murchison Meteorite, containing abiotic amino acids (including some that don’t exist on Earth) confirmed the experiment. The fact that some of the amino acids in the meteorite had an excess of L-forms was also significant; life on Earth uses only L-forms.

Later, it was discovered that amio acids polymerize into peptides (short proteins) in nature:
Prebiotic peptide-formation in the solid state
springerlink.com/content/n07l611g6g2730r2/

Self-replicating chemical systems have been prepared and studied since the late 1980s.
molecularassembler.com/KSRM/4.1.6.htm

The big hold-up was figuring out how a replicator molecule could self-catalyze. That seemed an insuperable problem. Then this:

Self-catalyzing RNA
thelivingcosmos.com/TheOriginofLifeOnEarth/PreRnaWorld_12May06.html

But how did RNA appear?

**A significant sticking point is how RNA, self-catalyzing or not, arose in the first place. Until recently, two of RNA’s building blocks, cytosine and uracil, had proven difficult to synthesize under the sort of conditions that might have prevailed on Earth about 4 billion years ago. However, in June1995, Stanley Miller and Michael P. Robertson, at the University of California, San Diego, reported1 that they had been able to synthesize cytosine and uracil under plausible prebiotic conditions. The technique involved placing urea and cyanoacetaldehyde in an environment equivalent to that of a warm tidal pool. As evaporation concentrated the mixture, the chemicals reacted to yield cytosine and uracil in large amounts.

Further support for the RNA world view came in 1998 from researchers at Massey University in New Zealand.2 They developed a picture of a hypothetical RNA-based organism, which they named Riborgis eigensis after the German biologist Manfred Eigen. In their view, R. eigensis would have had its genes strung out along a set of linear chromosomes so that it had more in common with the genetic organization of eukaryotes than it did with the single, circular chromosome found in the cells of prokaryotes. **
daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/R/RNA_world.html

More to come.
 
Sorry about taking so long. There’s a lot of stuff, and it’s not my specialty.

"In the natural sciences, abiogenesis, or origin of life, is the study of how life on Earth could have arisen from inanimate matter. It should not be confused with evolution, which is the study of how living things change over time." - Wikipedia

Let’s go from there. So abiogenesis isn’t evolution. It’s not spontaneous generation, either. Spontaneous generation was the idea that complex animals could appear from decaying organic matter, something obviously quite different from the orgin of life.

.
Are you so dumb to miss out on the known observation that all animate and inanimate existence share a common tendency towards a specific geometry -

mcs.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/R.Knott/Fibonacci/fibnat2.html

This geometric background hums through the Universe and was there billions of years ago and as long as this planet exists and it sure does not require a timeline trajectory.If the planet can be distinguished geometrically from all the other planets,it is because of the abundance of geometrical forms that display the tendency towards the Divine proportion.

Twenty years ago I was working on quasicrystal growth where the diffraction patterns are neither ordered or random so that if you want to promote nature as an ‘intelligent designer’ then do so because you cannot appeal to a random choice -

mcs.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/R.Knott/Fibonacci/phi3DGeom.html#quasicrystalsPhi

Darwin’s followers just look like people trying to make up stories as they go along and create a Frankenstein’s monster of a creation.That is what happens when you build on an essay on national supremacy.
 
But how did RNA appear?

.
The emergence of intelligent design was a reaction to the attempt of empiricists to bridge the gap between animate and inanimate existence.I only fault ID for using the same empirical playing field as those who tried to bluff their way to a solution thereby making a horrible matter even worse.A typical argument was something like this -

groups.google.ie/group/talk.origins/msg/929fc9e5d525f556?hl=en

You are like the wizard of Oz in trying to throw your voice as some authority but it all amounts to the same thing.You can study the invidual notes and their arrangement in a Beethoven or Bach composition and be no wiser as to what the music generates such enjoyment and feeling.There is nothing wrong with studying biological,geological or Universal evolution but why oh why do you need a single timeline trajectory based on an encompassing ‘cause’.

You do not need to know why the Earth turns or orbits the Sun to work out the geological.climate or the multitude of other effects and neither does anyone need to know the ‘cause’ for the diversity of life.
 
Oriel, we all know how you feel about evidence. But Granny asked for the evidence, which I am showing her. Be a gentleman this time, and let her see it without the bot-talk, OK?
 
Oriel, we all know how you feel about evidence. But Granny asked for the evidence, which I am showing her. Be a gentleman this time, and let her see it without the bot-talk, OK?
There is a difference between empiricism and genuine science and now I do see that it has entirely rotted denominational Chrsitianity from the inside ,when they take that step of two ‘complimentary ways of understanding’ it will be finished. or go from its present day Arian stance to being the religion of the evil one.

The mindless childish junk I just received in the private mailbox is fine,as far as I am concerned you can treat these Christians to the delights of the anti-scientific empirical method and they will blindly follow you.At least the genuine empircists hate Christ and Christianity but the worse crowd are their supporters who call themselves ‘Christian’ -

Dear oriel16,

You have received an infraction at Catholic Answers Forums.

Reason: Insulted Other Member(s)​

oriel16,

Your post has been edited and you are cited for the insult of referring to other members posting here who apparently do not share your position as “numbskulls”. Such ad hominem and insults are not allowed here at CAF.

Please review this link and insure that all future posts comply.
Very sincerely,​

This infraction is worth 5 point(s) and may result in restricted access until it expires. Serious infractions will never expire.
 
Darwin’s followers just look like people trying to make up stories as they go along and create a Frankenstein’s monster of a creation.That is what happens when you build on an essay on national supremacy.
But I doubt that Darwin ever had in his mind a concept of “national supremacy”. Maybe Hitler had, but it would be unfair to blame Darwin of such concept.
 
Are you so dumb to miss out on the known observation that all animate and inanimate existence share a common tendency towards a specific geometry -
What specific geometry do you think they commonly tend to?
 
Oriel, we all know how you feel about evidence. But Granny asked for the evidence, which I am showing her. Be a gentleman this time, and let her see it without the bot-talk, OK?
hey Barbarian,

just a quick note of congrats. You are presenting your position with much class! great! we still dont agree, but i am impressed with your presentation. Keep it up! (and leave baseball on the field.) I am sincerely encouraged.

God Bless

m33
 
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