Evolutionary Creationism

[buffalo]

Their “own activity” does not operate without Divine causality.

In addition, there is irrefutable evidence in nature and in the laboratory for macro-evolution. Even Michael Denton, one of the original scientists recruited by Phillip E. Johnson to advocate ID theory, clearly acknowledges the evidence for macro-evolution, in the sense of a natural production of new species.

It seems you are out of the loop.

Ahhh - no. Revelation clearly shows the arrow pointing down form God. Evolution views the arrow up toward him.

Sources for macro in the lab.

 

[itinerant1]

Ahhh - no. Revelation clearly shows the arrow pointing down form God. Evolution views the arrow up toward him.

Sources for macro in the lab.

Your comment about “Revelation” is extremely vague. I have no idea what you are talking about.

I don’t have references with me at my present location to quote in regard to macro-evolution. I don’t rely much on internet sources. However, you can always purchase Denton’s book for references to the fact of macro-evolution. The book is called Evolution: A Theory in Crisis. (BTW, Denton categorizes speciation as micro-evolution.)

You are treading worn paths and proffering tired and refuted arguments. Do you have anything new to offer? I am not willing to discuss already refuted arguments, merely because you refuse to acknowledge the strength of those arguments against your own position.

 

[buffalo]

Your comment about “Revelation” is extremely vague. I have no idea what you are talking about.

I don’t have references with me at my present location to quote in regard to macro-evolution. I don’t rely much on internet sources. However, you can always purchase Denton’s book for references to the fact of macro-evolution. The book is called Evolution: A Theory in Crisis. (BTW, Denton categorizes speciation as micro-evolution.)

You are treading worn paths and proffering tired and refuted arguments. Do you have anything new to offer? I am not willing to discuss already refuted arguments, merely because you refuse to acknowledge the strength of those arguments against your own position.

Get a basic philosophy understanding.

You assert it you prove it.

Then hit the road Jack.

 

[itinerant1]

Get a basic philosophy understanding.

You assert it you prove it.

Then hit the road Jack.

This is so typical of your mindless attitude toward rational discussion. You are consistently unable to support your misinformed opinions. End of story.

 

[buffalo]

This is so typical of your mindless attitude toward rational discussion. You are consistently unable to support your misinformed opinions. End of story.

Over the past several years of posting on this subject I have provided countless peer- reviewed papers, links, arguments for and against. You only have to look back to see it.

You make an unwarranted and untrue accusation. Please retract.

 

[itinerant1]

Over the past several years of posting on this subject I have provided countless peer- reviewed papers, links, arguments for and against. You only have to look back to see it.

You make an unwarranted and untrue accusation. Please retract.

Since you refuse to provide supporting evidence or argument for your assertions made in this thread, it is ludicrous for you to demand a retraction for a true statement about your attitude.

You quickly degenerated any discussion to a personal level. You should be embarrassed at your conduct rather than look for a retraction.

 

[buffalo]

Since you refuse to provide supporting evidence or argument for your assertions made in this thread, it is ludicrous for you to demand a retraction for a true statement about your attitude.

You quickly degenerated any discussion to a personal level. You should be embarrassed at your conduct rather than look for a retraction.

All you have to do is follow the threads.

 

[redneck22]

It is my belief that there is a divine Creator who created Evolution and let it go it’s own way so that S/He could attend to all of the other planets in the universe. I do not believe that an individual can believe in Evolution and not Creation or believe in Creation or Evolution. The Divine Creator did create us but S/He also created Evolution. What is your opinion/belief on this?

The argument has never been what God “could” have done (because He could do anything) but what He “said” He did.

If you look at Jesus’ own words “But from the beginning of creation, God made them male and female”, obviously Jesus is speaking of a literal Genesis.

There is no evidence in science nor scripture that disproves the Genesis account of creation or that “S/He could attend to all other planets in the universe”.

 

[tjm190]

If you look at Jesus’ own words “But from the beginning of creation, God made them male and female”, obviously Jesus is speaking of a literal Genesis.
nce nor scripture that

But the Genesis account doesn’t include us being made male and female ‘since the beginning of creation.’

 

[NowAgnostic]

Evolution puts Christians in a tough position. Everything that we have ever discovered about life points to the fact that the diversity of life arose through the natural selection of mutations. Reconciling this fact with an omni-benevolent creator god is difficult, to say the least.

If this god character could have chosen to create human beings in any way, why did he choose to use a process that involves such intense brutality and merciless competition? Why did he make this process look exactly as if it were uncaring about each individual species, to the point that 99% of all species that have ever lived on the earth are extinct? At what point exactly in the process did these mysterious “souls” get implanted into the human?

I don’t think that evolution and (the Christian) religion are compatible – which is too bad for religion, since evolution obviously took place.

This is the “evidential argument from evil” again. Really, it’s just as lame as the creationist canard “I never saw a monkey give birth to a man - therefore, evolution didn’t happen” - at bottom, it’s an argument to ignorance, based on our lack of knowledge of what greater good would entail a lesser evil.

 

[redneck22]

But the Genesis account doesn’t include us being made male and female ‘since the beginning of creation.’

I think you will have a difficult time trying to contradict what Jesus said in Mark with what was written in Genesis, since He was the Creator…but go ahead, make my day.

 

[Oreoracle]

This is the “evidential argument from evil” again. Really, it’s just as lame as the creationist canard “I never saw a monkey give birth to a man - therefore, evolution didn’t happen” - at bottom, it’s an argument to ignorance, based on our lack of knowledge of what greater good would entail a lesser evil.

Not really. You’re ignoring God’s omnipotence. It would never be necessary for him to cause an undesired consequence because he could just snap his fingers and “poof!”–he gets what he wants.

The real weakness of the problem of evil is that it assumes Christians will agree that suffering should be prevented. But it’s become obvious to me that Christians are more than willing to turn a blind eye to suffering.

 

[tjm190]

I think you will have a difficult time trying to contradict what Jesus said in Mark with what was written in Genesis, since He was the Creator…but go ahead, make my day.

So you’re saying the Genesis account is wrong? Then why say Jesus held a literal interpretation of Genesis?

 

[Fran65]

But it’s become obvious to me that Christians are more than willing to turn a blind eye to suffering.

This an inaccurate statement. Christians around the world are involved in all aspects of preventing and reducing suffering: education; disaster and famine relief; the development of sustainable methods of agriculture and manufacture; care of the sick; care of the elderly; care of the abandoned and orphaned; care of the poor and relief of poverty; care for animals and many other areas and initiatives. The Catholic Church itself is one of the most active globally in these areas.

 

[Oreoracle]

This an inaccurate statement. Christians around the world are involved in all aspects of preventing and reducing suffering: education; disaster and famine relief; the development of sustainable methods of agriculture and manufacture; care of the sick; care of the elderly; care of the abandoned and orphaned; care of the poor and relief of poverty; care for animals and many other areas and initiatives. The Catholic Church itself is one of the most active globally in these areas.

And yet, whenever a solution arises that God happens to disapprove of, Christians shrug their shoulders and say, “Hey, it’s part of my faith.” The imperative to them is not to prevent suffering but instead to do whatever God tells them. There’s a difference between caring for others and being an obedient sheep.

 

[Fran65]

Do you have any specific examples of Catholic teaching and/or action that illustrates this?

 

[ricmat]

And yet, whenever a solution arises that God happens to disapprove of, Christians shrug their shoulders and say, “Hey, it’s part of my faith.” The imperative to them is not to prevent suffering but instead to do whatever God tells them. There’s a difference between caring for others and being an obedient sheep.

You might want to be more specific about “a solution” above…?..

Yes, there’s a difference between caring for others, and being an obedient sheep. But first of all, caring for others is part of being an obedient sheep. And as obedient sheep, we also have one thing which is even more important than caring for others, and that is love of God. “If you love me, obey my commandments.”

You think that being obedient (to God) is bad somehow. You think that being a sheep (figuratively) is bad somehow. But when the shepherd is God, and his desire for us is sharing in his love, happiness, and eternal bliss beyond anything we can comprehend, “sheep” is a very good thing.

Much suffering is our own fault (when we choose not to follow God). Much of our suffering is somebody else’s fault (when they choose not to follow God). Much suffering cannot be attributed directly to mis-use of human free will at all. But what suffering is at it’s core is God removing himself from our presence, with the intent that knowing what lack of God is, we will desire him all the more.

Searching for God is what we all seek in the depths of our hearts, and our souls will not be at rest until we find him.

 

[redneck22]

So you’re saying the Genesis account is wrong?

No…How did you interpret that?

Then why say Jesus held a literal interpretation of Genesis?

He did hold a literal interpretation of Genesis in ALL doctrinal and historical areas He spoke of, can you find any He didn’t?

 

[tjm190]

No…How did you interpret that?

He did hold a literal interpretation of Genesis in ALL doctrinal and historical areas He spoke of, can you find any He didn’t?

Genesis clearly states that there were no males or females in the begging- there was no life!
So “since the beginning he made them male and female” contradicts Genesis.

 

[buffalo]

Not really. You’re ignoring God’s omnipotence. It would never be necessary for him to cause an undesired consequence because he could just snap his fingers and “poof!”–he gets what he wants.

The real weakness of the problem of evil is that it assumes Christians will agree that suffering should be prevented. But it’s become obvious to me that Christians are more than willing to turn a blind eye to suffering.

A blind eye? Who among us does not suffer?