EWTN and private revelation

[Crumpy]

I have noticed for some time that EWTN overwhelmingly blurs the distinction between general revelation and private revelation.

According to Card. Ratzinger (do a search for private relevelation under the This Rock section of this website for his essay on this)

The church accepts the existence of private revelation but imposes no burden of acceptance on its members.

You often wouldn’t notice this, to watch EWTN, for example. On Sept 20,2007, Fr. Mark gave a homily and was quoting from St. Faustina’s diary alongside verses from the day’s gospel reading.

According to Ratzinger, these don’t have the same weight or burden of faith. This subject is a glaring spot where EWTN is not so in union with the Vatican.

When I was growing up in Catholic school, I was dismayed to find out there was just such an endless list of apparitions and messages that I felt discouraged to learn all that my faith was about.

Later, I learned the distinction, which is not discussed much on EWTN. Yes, some may remember Card. Arinze’s visit where he was “sticking” this point to Mother Angelica, or so I thought.

If you also watch the EWTN show, “Super Saints” you will be exposed to the just on-and-on list of miracles and visions and levitations and such.

Last Monday when Doug Keck was interviewing Marcus Grodi on the Journey Home program, I tried to submit a question about how private revelation and how it may affect converts before or after they enter the Church, to find out all this other stuff. In the average Journey Home episode, the “journey home” often requires people to go over their beliefs with a fine tooth comb, and this kind of stuff never comes up. I wonder why.

I think it’s part of the agenda of the network. They don’t agree with or like the Vatican’s position, and so, they just do and say what they want. “Their way or the highway.”

 

[Hellisreal]

I dont get cable but I will tell you that unapproved private revelations do nothing for me, at all.

Some say they just have to have them.

Let them go in peace

 

[DJgang]

What is wrong with quoting St. Faustina? JPII canonized her as well as designated the Sunday after Easter, Divine Mercy Sunday, I mean, he passed away on that day…

as for the show on Saints, I haven’t watched, I don’t have time and it really doesn’t keep my attention right now, in my life…

Othen than that… I don’t see Carita’s showing up there…

 

[byers]

Crumpy…I have to for the most part agree with you and it is my only problem with the station. For quite a few years many guests on shows were related to or about various private revelations and it caused a lot of confusion and problems among the faithful.

Particularly disturbing was the promotion of apparitions and private revelations that had already received a judgment by the rightful authority, the local bishop when the judgment had not been “worthy of belief”.

I remember people saying things like, “well if it’s good enough for mother angelica, it’s okay with me.” And this kind of thing justified a lot of disobedience and encouraged fascination with and chasing after ‘signs and wonders.’

Unfortunately this did not set a good example for the faithful nor point them in the right direction. EWTN should know better.

 

[yinekka]

Crumpy you wrote:

I have noticed for some time that EWTN overwhelmingly blurs the distinction between general revelation and private revelation.

I watch EWTN quite a bit and have never noticed this. In fact on Fr Pacwa’s programme it is often pointed out the private revelation is not binding on the Faithful.

Yes, some may remember Card. Arinze’s visit where he was “sticking” this point to Mother Angelica, or so I thought.

Can you provide a source for this please?

On Sept 20,2007, Fr. Mark gave a homily and was quoting from St. Faustina’s diary alongside verses from the day’s gospel reading.

Nothing wrong with this. Did he say that the quote from St Faistina’s diary was equal to the Gospel or did he merely use the quote to emphasise something from the gospel reading?

If you also watch the EWTN show, “Super Saints” you will be exposed to the just on-and-on list of miracles and visions and levitations and such.

So what! I occasionally watch Super Saints and never remember being told that it is de fide that the recounting of miracles and visions etc have to be believed.

Last Monday when Doug Keck was interviewing Marcus Grodi on the Journey Home program, I tried to submit a question about how private revelation and how it may affect converts before or after they enter the Church, to find out all this other stuff.

Why don’t you email The Journey Home re this question and then report back to us when you have an answer.

I think it’s part of the agenda of the network. They don’t agree with or like the Vatican’s position, and so, they just do and say what they want. “Their way or the highway.”

I have never heard anything on EWTN which in any way went against the Vatican. EWTN is a bastion of orthodoxy and we are lucky to have it. Maybe the ‘agenda of the newwork’ is to inform Catholics and non Catholics alike of the beauty and Truth of the Catholic Faith.

 

[yinekka]

Byers you wrote:

Particularly disturbing was the promotion of apparitions and private revelations that had already received a judgment by the rightful authority, the local bishop when the judgment had not been “worthy of belief”.

I have been watching EWTN both current and archived programmes for years now and I have never heard of any apparitions or private revelations which haven’t been approved being promoted.

I* remember people saying things like, “well if it’s good enough for mother angelica, it’s okay with me.” And this kind of thing justified a lot of disobedience and encouraged fascination with and chasing after ‘signs and wonders*.’

Undercatechised people will always chase after ‘signs and wonders’ unfortunately. Just look at those who will never visit the Blessed Sacrament yet bid for a cheese sandwich on EBay or queue to look at what is purported to be the Virgin Mary on a fence!

 

[Genesis315]

While private revelations are not the same as public, they still have value–that’s why they were revealed. When the Church celebrates a private revelation in the liturgy, you can usually trust it (Fatima, Divine Mercy, Lourdes, Guadalupe, etc.). They do not add to our faith, but simply draw our attention to certain aspects of it that may be especially needed–such as the Mercy of God.

 

[lanceg]

What is wrong with quoting St. Faustina? JPII canonized her as well as designated the Sunday after Easter, Divine Mercy Sunday, I mean, he passed away on that day…

as for the show on Saints, I haven’t watched, I don’t have time and it really doesn’t keep my attention right now, in my life…

Othen than that… I don’t see Carita’s showing up there…

There is nothing wrong with Sister Faustina- but her revelations are private; they form no part of the deposit of faith, they are not part of Holy Tradition. They are binding on no one, even when alluded to in the liturgy.

One can choose to accept them or not. Not even Fatima, Lourdes, and Guadalupe rise to the level of public revelation.

 

[Crumpy]

While private revelations are not the same as public, they still have value–that’s why they were revealed. When the Church celebrates a private revelation in the liturgy, you can usually trust it (Fatima, Divine Mercy, Lourdes, Guadalupe, etc.). They do not add to our faith, but simply draw our attention to certain aspects of it that may be especially needed–such as the Mercy of God.

One of the posters above said that Fr. Pacwa mentions that the faithful are under no obligation to believe the private revelations. OK, I don’t watch Fr. Pacwa’s programs in totality, so I certainly have missed that.

Some posters say that the such-and-such apparitions are “approved.” That’s very limited approval by the church, and the key source and citation for me on this subject, is, again, the essay on private revelation in This Rock, elsewhere on this website.

“Approval” does not canonize the “revelation” to the same level as scripture. We don’t have to believe in it. C’mon, this is a goofy part of the Catholic Church, that is used for all it’s worth to create sensationalism. And, as I said, for Fr. Mark to just slip and slide between the gospel text and the “approved” revelations BLURS the distinction between what is required and what is not.

I watched an episode of SUPER SAINTS on Padre Pio, and again, Jack and Penny Lord (“Lord”) say that their videos, such as on Padre Pio, are useful for evangelization. I don’t follow that logic, but I’m not suprised that people are looking for such sensationalism to get them interested in a system of religion.

They even said during that episode, that Pio had “invisible stigmata.” Yeah, right. so do I. How much does this strain credulity! And, as for St. Faustina, do you realize that she claims that no less than God, Jesus Christ, appeared to her?

And, then, there’s the drama over the apparitions at Fatima. There were three messages, but only two were revealed. And, then for years, people were pleading and pleading and pleading and pleading (you get the picture) for the Pope to reveal the third message, and then he only revealed part of it (I guess)…oh, c’mon, when does this side show come to an end?

 

[maryj]

heh crumpy, have you read any of St. Faustinos diary, or done any reading on the Divine Mercy?

 

[debraran]

In the books I’ve read about Padro Pio, he had a visible stigmata (they had pictures) and later, just before he died, he asked God to take it away, he healed the outside wounds, but he still felt the pain. They have his bloodied gloves I think in a museum.
You don’t have to believe he was anyone special, but many have said he was given gifts, especially in forseeing things and reading minds.

 

[Crumpy]

heh crumpy, have you read any of St. Faustinos diary, or done any reading on the Divine Mercy?

No.

I’ve heard bits and snatches of programs on EWTN.

OK. This nun had some visions or ideas or something. Her confessor told her to write it all down. She did. What a lucky break. Her vision was nothing less than Jesus, Himself. telling her about an image and something.

That’s pretty thin, I admit. Even my mother has had an image of divine mercy Jesus on her bedroom wall – forever, it seems.

Ho hum. It’s not a Middle Eastern Jewish Jesus, it’s a white-skinned european-type Jesus. Not very convincing.

---

It’s an aside: I don’t know what “for the sake of his sorrowful passion” means? Why are we asking that of God the Father? Hasn’t He done that already?

More generally: isn’t this yet-another attempt to turn a private revelation into a “message for the world”? Again, the Church itself says that even if “approved” private revelation does not carry a burden of belief for a Catholic.

It is and always will be a second-class, take it or leave it, form of piety. And, EWTN is relentlessly pushing it our faces.

Gosh. Wait til Mother Angelica passes. Get the crying towel ready. I’m sure that the ink has long been dry on the paperwork for her canonization. It’s probably all stacked up down there in Irondale.

 

[brother_sun]

The two biggest causes for the spread of Christianity was do to private revelation. Saul on the road to Damascus was blinded by a light and heard the voice of Jesus and emperor Constantine was told in a vision of the cross you shall conquer under this sign. Both were private revelations and I would argue Christianity at its core is built on private revelations. So it is no wonder EWTN discusses private revelations.

Your brother in Christ

“If you are what you should be, you will set the world on fire!” --Saint Catherine of Siena

 

[Brennan_Doherty]

One of the posters above said that Fr. Pacwa mentions that the faithful are under no obligation to believe the private revelations. OK, I don’t watch Fr. Pacwa’s programs in totality, so I certainly have missed that.

Some posters say that the such-and-such apparitions are “approved.” That’s very limited approval by the church, and the key source and citation for me on this subject, is, again, the essay on private revelation in This Rock, elsewhere on this website.

“Approval” does not canonize the “revelation” to the same level as scripture. We don’t have to believe in it. C’mon, this is a goofy part of the Catholic Church, that is used for all it’s worth to create sensationalism. And, as I said, for Fr. Mark to just slip and slide between the gospel text and the “approved” revelations BLURS the distinction between what is required and what is not.

I watched an episode of SUPER SAINTS on Padre Pio, and again, Jack and Penny Lord (“Lord”) say that their videos, such as on Padre Pio, are useful for evangelization. I don’t follow that logic, but I’m not suprised that people are looking for such sensationalism to get them interested in a system of religion.

They even said during that episode, that Pio had “invisible stigmata.” Yeah, right. so do I. How much does this strain credulity! And, as for St. Faustina, do you realize that she claims that no less than God, Jesus Christ, appeared to her?

And, then, there’s the drama over the apparitions at Fatima. There were three messages, but only two were revealed. And, then for years, people were pleading and pleading and pleading and pleading (you get the picture) for the Pope to reveal the third message, and then he only revealed part of it (I guess)…oh, c’mon, when does this side show come to an end?

While Catholics don’t have to believe private revelation they actually can believe it. And perhaps they believe God allowed these private revelations and miracles for a reason. I think it was Cardinal Ratzinger who said two of the greatest means of evangelization are art and the lives of the Saints.

Perhaps Fr. Mark read from Sr. Faustina’s diary because he assumed the Catholics watching weren’t morons and could easily make the distinction between Sr. Faustina’s diary and the gospel.

And perhaps reading or hearing about Saints like Sr. Faustina and Padre Pio and how God worked in their lives, and Marian apparitions like Fatima or Guadalupe actually brings a deep appreciation for God and his grace and is not always “sensationalism.”

 

[JimR-OCDS]

No.
OK. This nun had some visions or ideas or something. Her confessor told her to write it all down. She did. What a lucky break. Her vision was nothing less than Jesus, Himself. telling her about an image and something.

That’s pretty thin, I admit. Even my mother has had an image of divine mercy Jesus on her bedroom wall – forever, it seems.

Ho hum. It’s not a Middle Eastern Jewish Jesus, it’s a white-skinned european-type Jesus. Not very convincing.

Actually, Jesus told Sr Faustina, about his divine mercy and how he would poured out his mercy on the cross. He gave Sr. Faustina a devotion to follow, and to bring to the world. The apparition was not private revelation, but revelation for the entire world.

As far as the picture of Jesus not looking like a Middle Eastern Jewish man, we’ll its not a photo graph, but a painting done by an artist, who was given a description of Jesus by Sr. Faustina. Sr. Faustina said it would never be as beautiful as Jesus appeared.

Also, the Jesus who appeared to Sr. Faustina, is a risen glorified Jesus, which is something different than a mortal man. His appearance is not of a mortal, but God the Son.

Jim

 

[Teelynn]

Just wondering if The Rosary in it’s present form that we use today didn’t in fact come from St. Dominic in a “private revelation” from Our Blessed Mother. Or did it just “evolve” out of convenience. And why have all of our present day Popes promoted this devotion? I have definitely heard out of the Vatican many times encouragement to pray The Rosary “as requested by Our Blessed Mother”. I don’t recall that anywhere in scripture that the Blessed Mother requested this devotion. Did she or did she not request that this mode of prayer be promoted through “private revelations” to some of our greatest saints? As I said just wondering…without a doubt there are some Catholics who don’t believe in The Rosary, sad as that is.

Personally, I don’t believe in “apparition chasing” on the other extreme, but I definitely do believe in the COMMUNION OF SAINTS. I think this is in fact REQUIRED by our Catholic Faith.

 

[marymol]

www.thedivinemercy.org gives clarification on the diffrence between private and ’ prophetic ’ revelations - the workings of The Spirit of Truth , who has been promised to The Church , to stay with us always …and who teaches all things , thus helping the Mother, to feed her children , as the need of the times call for …

( Interestingly, there was ’ private revelation’ meant only for the saint / the messenger , in some of these revelations.)

It is probabaly misleading to name the whole devotion / message as just ’ private revelation ’ ,since they helpus to see more clearly , the Presence and workings of our Lord , in our world in the present and His Mission of tending and leading The Church, through His representative .

Many of the great Church approved devotions we have been blessed with , come under this category of prophetic revelations and hence to be gratefully embraced !

 

[4HisChurch]

The apparition was not private revelation, but revelation for the entire world.
Jim

Jim,
All apparitions are private revelation in the sense that public revelation ended with the death of the last apostle, John.

I think that is one area that can get kind of nebulous when it comes to private revelation. There aren’t 2 kinds of apparitions: public and private. There are 2 kinds of apparitions: approved and unapproved. They are all private revelations.

 

[Joysong]

Brennan:

I watched an episode of SUPER SAINTS on Padre Pio, and again, Jack and Penny Lord (“Lord”) say that their videos, such as on Padre Pio, are useful for evangelization. I don’t follow that logic, but I’m not suprised that people are looking for such sensationalism to get them interested in a system of religion.

I wish you had seen the network’s presentation at 5 a.m. this morning on St. Padre Pio whom we honor this week. The special presentation aired testimonies from those who gave witness in his process for canonization. Particularly interesting and edifying was the statement from an Anglican woman who was crippled many years from a debilitating ulcer on her foot.

She spoke of a man who came to her and asked if he could touch her back in prayer. As he prayed, she said the pain was almost more than she could bear and asked him to stop. When he ceased his prayer, he directed her in the name of Jesus to stand up and walk. Surprisingly, she was able to do so. The man left, and she had no idea who he was until one day she came across a photo of Padre Pio and recognized him as the visitor who prayed for her healing, though he was already dead.

This may not be particularly noteworthy to some of you, since St. Pio was instrumental in many, many healings. But the part that caused me to rejoice in God was that she was Anglican. The narrator asked if she had converted afterwards to Catholicism. No, she said. I am still Anglican.

It speaks to me of the awesome mercy of God, who knows no favorites, and ministers to jew and gentile alike - not just Catholics. I remembered seeing some controversial threads about ecumenism, that those outside the faith are less worthy of God’s attention or love, somehow. This warmed my heart to realize a truth I’ve always known to be true from the gospels - especially the parable of the Good Samaritan. God’s love is without measure, and He hears the cry of the poor!

We need to proclaim His mercy similarly through our own deeds and compassion!

 

[Teelynn]

www.thedivinemercy.org gives clarification on the diffrence between private and ’ prophetic ’ revelations - the workings of The Spirit of Truth , who has been promised to The Church , to stay with us always …and who teaches all things , thus helping the Mother, to feed her children , as the need of the times call for …

( Interestingly, there was ’ private revelation’ meant only for the saint / the messenger , in some of these revelations.)

It is probabaly misleading to name the whole devotion / message as just ’ private revelation ’ ,since they helpus to see more clearly , the Presence and workings of our Lord , in our world in the present and His Mission of tending and leading The Church, through His representative .

Many of the great Church approved devotions we have been blessed with , come under this category of prophetic revelations and hence to be gratefully embraced !

This explains it a little more in detail. Prophetic Revelations of course are all private but are meant to give some benefit of direction to God’s people. But…they all must be **approved **by The Church to have credibility.

I get the impression that the OP is trying to lump all private revelation into one big “sensationalism” ball, which of course is not at all true. I guess another way of looking at this is also the fact that throughout the history of The Church we have had prophets. There were the prophets of the Old Testament and the New Testament. Just because we are not living in biblical times that means there are no modern day prophets? Because we are living in the 21st Century that means God chooses not to reveal Himself to us through his representatives at times? :nope: Can’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.