EWTN is setting-up studio at Christ Cathedral in Orange County

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I’m looking forward to seeing Christ Cathedral sometime myself.

The only time I’ve ever been on the campus was years ago when we went to see one of the holiday productions there. (I can’t remember if it was for the Glory of Christmas or the Glory of Easter.) I’ve seen the cathedral way off in the distance during the day but
never up close during the day.
 
I just visited Christ Cathedral this past Sunday July 27. It is a beautiful campus. To my surprise there are many statues, Moses with the Ten Commandments, five loafs and two fishes, the Prodigal Son, Job, Jesus Mary and Joseph on a donkey, etc… along with waterfalls, fountains, trees and flowers, it is a very nice campus.

The statues certainly make it more Catholic looking. There was a Vietnam Mass ongoing when we were there. I heard some Chinese communities also have Sunday Mass there. The huge building is under renovation. Regardless if we prefer traditional Catholic architecture, when the altar is built and tabernacle installed, when Jesus rests in the tabernacle, it will be beautiful no matter the building is traditional or comtemporary!
 
ProVobis said:
I wouldn’t be surprised if it gets renamed to Catedral de Cristo soon.
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Why would you say something like that? Anglo, Hispanic and Vietnamese speakers are all heavily represented in the diocese along with speakers of more than 30 other languages.
 
InLight247 said:
I just visited Christ Cathedral this past Sunday July 27. It is a beautiful campus. To my surprise there are many statues, Moses with the Ten Commandments, five loafs and two fishes, the Prodigal Son, Job, Jesus Mary and Joseph on a donkey, etc… along with waterfalls, fountains, trees and flowers, it is a very nice campus.

The statues certainly make it more Catholic looking. There was a Vietnam Mass ongoing when we were there. I heard some Chinese communities also have Sunday Mass there. The huge building is under renovation. Regardless if we prefer traditional Catholic architecture, when the altar is built and tabernacle installed, when Jesus rests in the tabernacle, it will be beautiful no matter the building is traditional or comtemporary!
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Many if not most of those statues predate Catholic ownership of Christ Cathedral. There is an indoor bronze statue of Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen who was an inspiration to Robert Schuller.

It’s great that you have an open mind about the architecture. The Mass you noticed was being celebrated in the campus’ Arboretum, a remarkable building in its own right designed by the famed architect Richard Neutra.
 
Wassermann said:
Why would you say something like that? Anglo, Hispanic and Vietnamese speakers are all heavily represented in the diocese along with speakers of more than 30 other languages.
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To be honest with you, the closest I’ve ever gotten to appreciate the Crystal Cathedral was hearing Frederick Swann play the organ at a local nondenominational church, also with a magnificent pipe organ. That was indeed a thrill for me. I don’t plan on visiting California soon so I really don’t have a stake into what’s happening there. We have beautiful churches in the Midwest, one of which I know that has been purchased (and reconverted) from the Presbyterian Church.
 
Wassermann said:
I didn’t say you said that, but a great many have and it’s simply not true, much like your comment “…the pictures I have seen of it, do resemble Protestant church buildings more than Catholic ones…” There are all sorts of such buildings.
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Umm, it’s true. It does look like many Protestant churches I’ve seen. You have no basis to dispute that. Do you have any idea which Catholic or Protestant churches I’ve seen? No, you don’t.
Actually that’s not accurate. The design of Christ Cathdral follows the tenants of great, beautiful design. It’s beautiful based solely on its design. Many learned people may not personally care for the design and they are free to communicate their feelings but if they are being honest, they will also acknowledge that the building is beautiful based on the tenants of design.
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Those that attack this building (particularly those that have never visited it) should be more honest about what drives their dislike.
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I haven’t attacked it at all (nor do I see others doing so). I have no opinion other than my own personal taste, and what parishes I’ve seen in person. Again, beauty is SUBJECTIVE. Beauty is an opinion; it’s neither black nor white. It’s in a gray area. I can say something is large, dramatic, grand, and still not agree that it’s beautiful. In my own opinion, as well as that of thousands of others (if not more) other parishes are beautiful and not at all like this one. It doesn’t take away from either one.

Is there a reason you are so ‘against’ everything I’m saying, or my own opinion? I haven’t said that you were wrong at all, but only stated my own opinion. I haven’t attacked the structure, and I would never attack a parish and its grounds unless they were against the Church’s guidelines (and NO, before you twist my words, I’m not saying that this location is anything against the Church’s guidelines). Why is it you are so involved in this, so wrapped up in other peoples’ opinions (which are just as valid as yours) of it? You seem to be taking this personally. Beauty is each person’s opinion. There is no absolute with beauty. Black is black; white is white. Beauty is neither of those.
 
ccmcmg said:
Umm, it’s true. It does look like many Protestant churches I’ve seen. You have no basis to dispute that. Do you have any idea which Catholic or Protestant churches I’ve seen? No, you don’t.
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No. I’m simply going to have to challenge you on that statement. There is only one Christ Cathedral. You suggest you have seen many other “Protestant churches” that look like Christ Cathedral. Could you possibly provide the URLs to perhaps half a dozen?
ccmcmg said:
I haven’t attacked it at all (nor do I see others doing so). I have no opinion other than my own personal taste, and what parishes I’ve seen in person. Again, beauty is SUBJECTIVE. Beauty is an opinion; it’s neither black nor white. It’s in a gray area. I can say something is large, dramatic, grand, and still not agree that it’s beautiful. In my own opinion, as well as that of thousands of others (if not more) other parishes are beautiful and not at all like this one. It doesn’t take away from either one.
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Just look at your posting #9. Those churches have nothing to do with this thread. You mentioned them as a very subtle way to judge and denigrate Christ Cathedral. The next posting did the exact same thing. That’s wrong.

You’re also wrong about beauty being only subjective. Beauty can be and is objective. That’s simply not open to debate.
ccmcmg said:
Is there a reason you are so ‘against’ everything I’m saying, or my own opinion? I haven’t said that you were wrong at all, but only stated my own opinion. I haven’t attacked the structure, and I would never attack a parish and its grounds unless they were against the Church’s guidelines (and NO, before you twist my words, I’m not saying that this location is anything against the Church’s guidelines). Why is it you are so involved in this, so wrapped up in other peoples’ opinions (which are just as valid as yours) of it? You seem to be taking this personally. Beauty is each person’s opinion. There is no absolute with beauty. Black is black; white is white. Beauty is neither of those.
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You are very wrong to suggest “Beauty is each person’s opinion.” That couldn’t be more wrong. As an example, one of the most intrinsically beautiful pieces of architecture in the world is the Taj Mahol. Yet I am sure there are millions in this world that dislike or even detest the design (or can’t help but try to compare it to Saint Peter’s when such a comparison is absurd.) Their dislike of the Taj Mahol in no way changes the fact that it’s intrinsically beautiful.

If you want to critique the design of Christ Cathedral or compare it to others, start an appropriate thread. “EWTN is setting-up studio at Christ Cathedral in Orange County” has nothing to do with now “Protestant” you feel Christ Cathedral looks.
 
ProVobis said:
To be honest with you, the closest I’ve ever gotten to appreciate the Crystal Cathedral was hearing Frederick Swann play the organ at a local nondenominational church, also with a magnificent pipe organ. That was indeed a thrill for me. I don’t plan on visiting California soon so I really don’t have a stake into what’s happening there. We have beautiful churches in the Midwest, one of which I know that has been purchased (and reconverted) from the Presbyterian Church.
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Then why did you say *"I wouldn’t be surprised if it *(Christ Cathedral) gets renamed to Catedral de Cristo soon."?
 
I think its nice that Orange has a new Cathedral with land, etc.

But I hope this is the last modern Cathedral in the United States. The architecture is awesome for an office building, but I personally feel that Catholic Churches should look like they are hundreds of years old.

I like lots of stained glass with murals in the, paintings on the walls and ceiling, etc.

Old Churches (or Churches that look/feel old) help me go back in time and feel like I’m with the Saints. Modern Churches do not help me feel that way.

I personally love the Cathedral Basilica of Saints Peter and Paul in Philadelphia. I also love the Franciscan Monastery in DC and the Basilica of the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception. The Cathedral of St Patrick in New York would be better if it was ran more like an orthodox Catholic Cathedral and less like a museum.

Give me minor Basilicas any day.

Now, I also think its good that EWTN will have a studio out in CA. Maybe they can convert some Hollywood stars And develop even more quality programming.

God Bless.
 
Wassermann said:
No. I’m simply going to have to challenge you on that statement. There is only one Christ Cathedral. You suggest you have seen many other “Protestant churches” that look like Christ Cathedral. Could you possibly provide the URLs to perhaps half a dozen?

Just look at your posting #9. Those churches have nothing to do with this thread. You mentioned them as a very subtle way to judge and denigrate Christ Cathedral. The next posting did the exact same thing. That’s wrong.

You’re also wrong about beauty being only subjective. Beauty can be and is objective. That’s simply not open to debate.

You are very wrong to suggest “Beauty is each person’s opinion.” That couldn’t be more wrong. As an example, one of the most intrinsically beautiful pieces of architecture in the world is the Taj Mahol. Yet I am sure there are millions in this world that dislike or even detest the design (or can’t help but try to compare it to Saint Peter’s when such a comparison is absurd.) Their dislike of the Taj Mahol in no way changes the fact that it’s intrinsically beautiful.

If you want to critique the design of Christ Cathedral or compare it to others, start an appropriate thread. “EWTN is setting-up studio at Christ Cathedral in Orange County” has nothing to do with now “Protestant” you feel Christ Cathedral looks.
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Again, I ask you, why so personal? I never put it down, or implied otherwise. You are reading WAY too much into my words. I can state & have my own preferences. As for seeing other Protestant churches that this reminds me, again, who are YOU to say what something reminds ME of? You think I’m wrong. I can have an opinion about something, & not be wrong, simply because it differs from yours. WHY are you so caught up in my opinion &thoughts? They are mine, and mine alone; not yours, not anyone’s. Relax. I haven’t said ONE THING against a church building I’ve never visited, and based solely on pictures. I’m thrilled for them. Just as I could say a certain color is ugly (like certain oranges) to me, I can say some other colors (purple or blue) are beautiful to me. You might disagree (apparently, strongly.) That doesn’t make either side more or less valid. An opinion is one’s own personal thoughts; they are not right or wrong and can’t be measured.

I said what it reminded ME of. No one else but ME has MY life experience to say what anything reminds one of (pot roast reminds me of my childhood; is it wrong for me to feel that way because it doesn’t remind someone else of the same thing? No. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. See this:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beauty
The experience of “beauty” often involves an interpretation of some entity as being in balance and harmony with nature, which may lead to feelings of attraction and emotional well-being. Because this can be a subjective experience, it is often said that “beauty is in the eye of the beholder.”

As well, Hume:
Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty. One person may even perceive deformity, where another is sensible of beauty; and every individual ought to acquiesce in his own sentiment, without pretending to regulate those of others. (Hume 1757

You can continue to twist my words into things I did not say, but I won’t be listening to it. Do not continue to attack me and my opinion simply because I said I preferred the Basilica of the Immaculate Conception and found it the most beautiful one I’ve seen, instead of your favorite church. I didn’t say one thing was wrong with it. Post 9, as you referenced, didn’t mention anything Protestant:
I looked at the pictures, and it’s quite…large. and 21st century. I enjoy the more traditional church buildings, especially one with such a great shrine, which was visited by the Pope (as was my 2nd favorite, in St. Louis, the Cathedral).
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I’m going to have to stick with my favorite, that not only matches but exceeds it for pilgrimages, beauty and more: nationalshrine.com/site/c…BF65/Home.htm
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You responded my accusing me of attacking (SERIOUSLY??) the Christ Cathedral in my post 9:
Wasserman: Christ Cathedral was built over 30 years ago based upon an award winning design by noted architect Philip Johnson. While it bothers some, it’s without question an objectively beautiful structure. It’s a large edifice but it doesn’t seem larger than the cathedrals in Los Angeles or NYC. The 34 acre campus is a different story. It seems large, much like a college campus or a Silicon Valley corporate campus.
We all have our favorites and that’s grea****t but it’s wrong to attack Christ Cathedral as being “Protestant”, “non-Catholic” or “ugly.” ****It’s not, at least not from a truly objective viewpoint.
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Post 18:
Since you quoted me within the above reply, I’d like to ask where I said that the Christ Cathedral was Protestant, non-Catholic or ugly. Please do not put words in my mouth when it’s nowhere in the original post or quote. But since you brought it up, the pictures I have seen of it, do *resemble *Protestant church buildings more than Catholic ones, at least at this time.
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You accused me of saying it was ugly or Protestant. I NEVER said that; you brought it up and accused me of it while ‘quoting’ me. I responded to YOU saying that to ME. I did NOT bring it up, but defended myself against your inaccurate accusations.

You are acting very hostile towards people about this; are you trying to pick this fight? I refuse to entertain you in that any longer, not even defending myself. If you choose to continue your baseless accusations and misquoting towards and about me, I will take a different step instead of responding to you.
 
phil19034 said:
I think its nice that Orange has a new Cathedral with land, etc.

But I hope this is the last modern Cathedral in the United States. The architecture is awesome for an office building, but I personally feel that Catholic Churches should look like they are hundreds of years old.

I like lots of stained glass with murals in the, paintings on the walls and ceiling, etc.

Old Churches (or Churches that look/feel old) help me go back in time and feel like I’m with the Saints. Modern Churches do not help me feel that way.

I personally love the Cathedral Basilica of Saints Peter and Paul in Philadelphia. I also love the Franciscan Monastery in DC and the Basilica of the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception. The Cathedral of St Patrick in New York would be better if it was ran more like an orthodox Catholic Cathedral and less like a museum.

Give me minor Basilicas any day.

Now, I also think its good that EWTN will have a studio out in CA. Maybe they can convert some Hollywood stars And develop even more quality programming.

God Bless.
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Why should Catholic churches look “old?” “Old” does not necessarily equate to “better.” The very same arguments used to attack Christ Cathedral by some today were used hundreds of years earlier when the then new Gothic style of architecture was introduced by those who favored the long established Romanesque style. Later the California Mission style was attacked by Europeans as being “crude” and “ugly.”

In any event I think there is a fairly decent chance that Christ Cathedral will one day be recognized as a minor basilica.
 
Wassermann said:
Why should Catholic churches look “old?” “Old” does not necessarily equate to “better.” The very same arguments used to attack Christ Cathedral by some today were used hundreds of years earlier when the then new Gothic style of architecture was introduced by those who favored the long established Romanesque style. Later the California Mission style was attacked by Europeans as being “crude” and “ugly.”

In any event I think there is a fairly decent chance that Christ Cathedral will one day be recognized as a minor basilica.
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Well, the California Mission style is pretty crude, yes, I’d agree, however not ugly imho.

On the other hand, bland office building…
 
ccmcmg said:
Again, I ask you, why so personal? I never put it down, or implied otherwise. You are reading WAY too much into my words. I can state & have my own preferences. As for seeing other Protestant churches that this reminds me, again, who are YOU to say what something reminds ME of? You think I’m wrong. I can have an opinion about something, & not be wrong, simply because it differs from yours. WHY are you so caught up in my opinion &thoughts? They are mine, and mine alone; not yours, not anyone’s. Relax. I haven’t said ONE THING against a church building I’ve never visited, and based solely on pictures. I’m thrilled for them. Just as I could say a certain color is ugly (like certain oranges) to me, I can say some other colors (purple or blue) are beautiful to me. You might disagree (apparently, strongly.) That doesn’t make either side more or less valid. An opinion is one’s own personal thoughts; they are not right or wrong and can’t be measured.

I said what it reminded ME of. No one else but ME has MY life experience to say what anything reminds one of (pot roast reminds me of my childhood; is it wrong for me to feel that way because it doesn’t remind someone else of the same thing? No. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. See this:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beauty
The experience of “beauty” often involves an interpretation of some entity as being in balance and harmony with nature, which may lead to feelings of attraction and emotional well-being. Because this can be a subjective experience, it is often said that “beauty is in the eye of the beholder.”

As well, Hume:
Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty. One person may even perceive deformity, where another is sensible of beauty; and every individual ought to acquiesce in his own sentiment, without pretending to regulate those of others. (Hume 1757

You can continue to twist my words into things I did not say, but I won’t be listening to it. Do not continue to attack me and my opinion simply because I said I preferred the Basilica of the Immaculate Conception and found it the most beautiful one I’ve seen, instead of your favorite church. I didn’t say one thing was wrong with it. Post 9, as you referenced, didn’t mention anything Protestant:

You responded my accusing me of attacking (SERIOUSLY??) the Christ Cathedral in my post 9:

Post 18:

You accused me of saying it was ugly or Protestant. I NEVER said that; you brought it up and accused me of it while ‘quoting’ me. I responded to YOU saying that to ME. I did NOT bring it up, but defended myself against your inaccurate accusations.

You are acting very hostile towards people about this; are you trying to pick this fight? I refuse to entertain you in that any longer, not even defending myself. If you choose to continue your baseless accusations and misquoting towards and about me, I will take a different step instead of responding to you.
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There are always those on these threads that seem to enjoy twisting what someone says and insulting them in any way they can. I personally think they like to start trouble. Many threads have been shut down because of it. It’s as if no other opinion matters except their own. Pray for them. God Bless, Memaw
 
Wassermann said:
In any event I think there is a fairly decent chance that Christ Cathedral will one day be recognized as a minor basilica.
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After checking out the parish website, that will be left to be seen. To become a minor Basilica, the parish itself must display orthodoxy. Besides, St. Patrick’s in New York isn’t a Basilica.

According to line 14 of adoremus.org/DomusEcclesiae.html, the Faithful must be able to chant in Latin together
  1. Since the celebration of the liturgy takes on a more noble form when it is carried out in song, care must be taken that gatherings of the Christian faithful be associated with the singing of the various parts of the Mass, especially those found in the "Ordinary."5 In a basilica where the faithful from different nations or languages frequently come together, it is useful that they should know how to sing together in Latin the profession of faith and the Lord’s Prayer, using more simple melodies like those composed in Gregorian chant which is "proper to the Roman liturgy."6 - See more at: adoremus.org/DomusEcclesiae.html#sthash.FbLH0h8J.dpuf
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The parish will also need to have Adoration more than once a month.
 
Wassermann said:
Then why did you say *"I wouldn’t be surprised if it *(Christ Cathedral) gets renamed to Catedral de Cristo soon."?
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I admit I was judging based on the current trend of Spanish-speaking people attendance at Mass, at least in the Midwest. I know the Schuller ministry served them as well. I apologize if this offended you.

That said, do we know what the final layout of the interior will be? How will this affect the acoustics fit to serve the sounds of the towering organ there? Very small things like carpeting can vastly change the reverberation, etc. Vatican II made the pipe organ an issue so I don’t think these concerns are unreasonable.
 
Wassermann said:
Many if not most of those statues predate Catholic ownership of Christ Cathedral. There is an indoor bronze statue of Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen who was an inspiration to Robert Schuller.
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Yea, I know, I think all the statues are from the Schuller ministry. That’s why I was surprised a Protestant church actually built so many statues. But they are good, the statues are all from Bible stories. They make the campus more Catholic. I am sure once the renovation is done, it will have more Catholic atmosphere. I am looking forward to next time travelling to Southern California to see the finished campus. No matter how the campus looks like, it is great as long as the Real Presence of our Lord Jesus is there. 👍
 
InLight247 said:
Yea, I know, I think all the statues are from the Schuller ministry. That’s why I was surprised a Protestant church actually built so many statues. But they are good, the statues are all from Bible stories. They make the campus more Catholic. I am sure once the renovation is done, it will have more Catholic atmosphere. I am looking forward to next time travelling to Southern California to see the finished campus. No matter how the campus looks like, it is great as long as the Real Presence of our Lord Jesus is there. 👍
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This is all good but wasn’t EWTN’s move more for television, which is what brought fame to Crystal Cathedral in the first place?
 
ProVobis said:
This is all good but wasn’t EWTN’s move more for television, which is what brought fame to Crystal Cathedral in the first place?
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Yes, ETWN is taking advantage of the TV stuff that was there. I beleive they actually had a TV studio on campus.
 
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