Ewtn too secular for me

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Hello Br. JR,

You lost me on a couple of points.
  1. How can you be a strong secular Catholic? This is psychotic schizophrenic in nature; you’re either secular or your Catholic; a house divided against itself cannot stand.
  2. I do not recall Mother Angelica EVER commenting on how she was going to hand the station over to secularists; in fact, I remember the exact opposite. I remember on more than one occasion when she said in her live show that aired Tuesdays and Wednesdays that she would burn the place to the ground before she would let the likes of Turner, (which whom she had a long running rivalry with for years), or anyone else get control of the place.
Also, none of her programs were of a secular nature from the mid '80s onward; and it stayed that way up until she suffered that aneurism and had to relinquish control of the network in 2001. That does not sound like an organization that is secular in nature or intent; or an organization accustomed to building something up and then handing it off to secularists.

I find no basis for this argument.

Oremus pro invicem,

Sean C. :knight2:
There are three different words, secular, secularity and secularism.

Secular – any Catholic who is not a consecrated religious. This includes: lay people and diocesan deacons, priests and bishops. Most often, it is used to refer to the laity.

Secularity – that which is outside of consecrated life, such as evagelization, catechesis, teaching, administration, etc.

Secularism – a culture that is indifferent to God

All of the non-consecrated people on EWTN are secular Catholics, including all of the diocesan priests and deacons.

Mother did not want to hand over the network to secularism or secularist. She knew that she would eventually have to hand it over to secular Catholics. Franciscans cannot own such a network. The other option would be to give it to Dominicans or Benedictines, because they are allowed to own property. We’re not. That’s not a law of the Church. It’s revelation from Christ to St. Francis, which the Church upholds as binding on the Franciscans.

Traditionally, Franciscans have started many projects and when they are up and running, they are given over to secular Catholics or to another religious family. When possible, they have handed things over to the Secular Franciscans. But there are not enough Secular Franciscans in this industry to run that network.

Observe here, from SP, the Holy Father uses the term along with Catholic.

"In Masses celebrated without the people, each Catholic priest of the Latin rite, whether secular or regular, "

A regular priest is a consecrated man. A secular priest is not. He is part of the secular world, such as the FSSP, SSPX, Maryknoll, Missionhurst, Inst. of Christ King, Vincentians and Opus Dei. Pope Benedict is a secular Catholic priest. You’re a secular Catholic layperson. I’m a regular Catholic man or a consecrated Catholic man.

Secular and secularity are good. We’ve always had that in the Church. Not every Catholic is a consecrated religious. In fact, only 20% of priests are consecrated and about 5% of the laity are consecrated religious. Priests and laymen are secular Catholics. Consecrated religious make up about 5-7% of the Catholic population.

Secularism is a worldview, which is void of God. That’s a whole other phenomenon.

Does it make sense now?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
The other option would be to give it to Dominicans or Benedictines, because they are allowed to own property.

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
Do you know the reason why this was not done? I would have thought the Benedictines would have been one of the better choices.🤷

God be with you.
 
Do you know the reason why this was not done? I would have thought the Benedictines would have been one of the better choices.🤷

God be with you.
Why would the Dominicans be a lesser choice considering how well they did?
 
I don’t understand everyone’s aggression to Life On The Rock. It is a wonderful show for teens, and is one of the few shows that the Franciscan Missionaries of the Eternal Word are actually on. Just because you might be a little old to enjoy Father Mark Mary interviewing good Catholics and cracking jokes with them does not mean you have to tear apart the show completely. I think you all should show a little shame for hating the only Catholic television network, which is completely orthodox and only shows orthodox programs.
I have nothing against Life on the Rock, I only stated it because it’s the only thing even close to being “modern”. I watched all the time when I was in high school.
 
I like most of the programs I watch EWTN - I particularly like the “Journey Home” and “Living Rock”. Last week, I looked for a long time broadcasts from Madrid, as did many young people joining the World Youth Day. It 'was especially nice because I do not think that my local newspaper to cover World Youth Day to all. More than one million young people can participate in World Youth Day, I can fully understand why the paper did not cover it, but then I do not think it’s a little 'prejudiced!
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Also last week showed a film about Maximilian Kolbe - she was beautiful!
 
Do you know the reason why this was not done? I would have thought the Benedictines would have been one of the better choices.🤷

God be with you.
**MY guess **is that there would be several complications. For starters the operation would have had to move to a Benedictine abbey. You can’t just pick up a network that size and move it and you can’t pick Benedictines and move them. Benedictines make a vow of stability. They do not transfer from abbey to abby. This move would have required opening a new Benedictine house. That’s easier said than done. You need all kinds of permissions from the local bishop and the Holy See.

Secondly, the Benedictines, like the Franciscans are in the process of returning to their roots, per the mandate of Vatican II. Even though the Rule of St. Benedict allows them to own property, it has two caveats. First, the Benedictines are enclosed. Their life is one of silence and solitude. They are dramatically cutting back the amount of time that they spend among lay people and the amount of service that they provide to lay people. In some abbeys they have reduced it to celebrating mass and in other houses no contact at all with the world, except for retreatants.

The second caveat is that they too are returning to the brother community. That is, they are not a community of priests. They are religious brothers who are monks, some of the brothers just happen to be ordained. So that the priesthood is accidental and not essential to their life. One or two priests are enough to hear their confessions and celebrate mass for them. Taking on this ministry would have inolved taking on the pastoral care of the lay people who are attached to EWTN. This is something that the Benedictine family is trying to cut out of their life, because it interferes with their service to the Church. As you know, the Camaldolese, Cistercians and Trappists are also Benedictine and their apostolate is to pray with the Church and for the Church. Running a network would not be a very quiet endeavor.

As to the Dominicans, I’m going to guess that it would be inappropriate for them to take it. Even though they too can own property, they are friars. As per Vatican II, friars must return to the 13th century where it all started. The early Dominican Friars were itinerant preachers, theologians and university professors. EWTN does not fit that profile. It is a corporation, not a university, seminary or parish mission. You don’t just go in, teach or preach and leave, if you own it. They have had several Dominicans on EWTN. The reason why they have been very effective is because they have been very faithful to the vision of St. Dominic. They come, teach, film and are gone. That’s what friars do. We go in, do a job and disappear.

The Franciscans of the Eternal Word are a perfect fit for this ministry. They don’t own EWTN. They work for EWTN. They preserve the poverty that St. Francis commanded. They have time for brotherhood and prayer. They don’t have to be ordained to do most of the work that’s required of them. It’s a perfect fit. Like St. Francis said, “If we own property, then we have to be responsible for it. Why would the Lord want us to do that?” That was already being done by the monks and other orders of friars. Francis’ friars were to be detached from things, places and people. As I see it, the present arrangement provides EWTN with the Franciscan presence, but allows the friars the freedom to be as involved as possible, without being so involved that they become distracted from brotherhood and it allows them the freedom to leave when they choose to do so.

This is what the Poor Clares did. They founded it, under the direction of Mother Angelica and then they walked away. In any other religious order, a new head would have been appointed when Mother became ill or elderly. Because the Poor Clares are Franciscan, they’re not attached even to the thing they love. They can surrender it to someone else who will take good care of it, when the time comes. That’s what happened. The time came.

From where I sit as a Franciscan, the evolution of EWTN is beautiful, because it is exactly how Francis and Clare wanted things to go. We go in, plant the seed of the Gospel and when the plant is sturdy, we leave it to secular Catholics to care for it or to another religious order and we disappear without a fuss. What is important is the work of the Gospel, not our presence. Francis and Clare taught us to make ourselves dispensible. We were always supposed to support the secular, not take over. We have started many projects and taken over some, because they needed our talent. Once you find someone else with the necessary talent, you hand it over. This is true poverty.

I believe what the OP is expressing is difficulty with poverty. What I’m seeing in the original post is a difficulty letting go and letting things grow and change according to the Will of God and God’s plan. To us, Franciscans, this is awesome. For other people who do not share our worldview, this is very hard. I can certainly appreicate that. Change is a hard thing to cope with.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
But he was a High Church Episcopalian, was he not? I know some Anglicans like that who even accept the Pope while remaining Anglican. One such Anglo-Catholic priest I know invited me to attend a Mass for a deceased friend - he had the Rosary prior to Mass (on his knees) and everyone was mostly on their knees throughout. He aspersed everyone with holy water as well and had a deacon behind him with a subdeacon behind him on three different steps before the altar (ad oriente, of course).

He commemorated the pope and then the Archbishop of Canterbury . . .

I guess in time they struggle with why they continue to be not in the Catholic Church . . .

Alex
He never mentioned where he spent his years. His exact words were “I spent 40-years protesting”. I couldn’t tell you Alexander, he also did mention he spent 2-hours in Confession with pages of note’s to remind him of his past. Apparently he and his wife converted at the same time. He did mention he had a degree in Theology and his father was a lifelong Catholic who through Scotts conversion bought his father deeper into the Catholic faith. His actual participation in what he once did wasn’t mentioned. The “40-years” stuck in my mind because its a Biblical number mentioned several time’s in scripture.

What kitkatty and Melchior mention sounds about right. I haven’t read his work, IMHO there is such a wealth out here just in Catholic/Orthodox teaching, the BVM, the Saints etc. Which I would like to still get to, that I rarely am not thinking about what I want to read next. The only question in this regards is where its best to start with a particular Saint, Pope etc. In this regard Scott Hahn just hasn’t been my priority.

However, this was one particular night when he spoke of himself. I also seen him speak Bible/Catholic Faith and he runs a decent show. I don’t judge or dislike the man.

I like watching Fr Mitch Pacwa S.J. serve Mass or speak live. Theres’ very little I dislike about the EWTN. In a period when I watch very little TV due to the constant drumming of sex and violence and the manifestation of evil, I find it refreshing. I reason I mentioned Scott Hahn is I believe it was stated he wasn’t seen on EWTN.

I believe theres a couple very good shows about to air as mentioned, also with The Saints bought to you Live, which is on Sunday 10:30 am est, actually its on 5-times a week but for all the dates you’d have to check EWTN. I realize Sunday 10:30am is a difficult time.

“I guess in time they struggle with why they continue to be not in the Catholic Church”

I believe so, its a constant on the mind “I would imagine” for Christians seeking to understand Biblical context with an honest, open-mind. I would say this has to be a motivating factor. I can’t reconcile the Bible in any other way but through the Catholic Church. Early on in life I re-thought Biblical content with the assumption the Catholic Church might be wrong, I was raised in it, thus I sought to view it objectively. However, all I did in this regard only confirmed what I already knew, only with a deeper understanding. It could be stated that this continues to happen to this day.

Anyway, sorry about any misunderstanding.

Peace
 
Hello Brother JR,

Yes- that clarifies it. Thanks. 🙂

Oremus pro invicem,

Sean C. :knight2:
 
I like watching Fr Mitch Pacwa S.J. serve Mass or speak live.
Hello Gary, et al,

This is true; I forgot to mention Fr. Pacwa earlier; I do enjoy his homilies.

Oremus pro invicem,

Sean C. :knight2:
 
If EWTN is too secular, then I’m not very Catholic. I’m not sure santitizing EWTN of any and all secular notions is particularly useful. We do live in a world where not everyone epouses Catholic beliefs. True, the shows on EWTN should not advance secular causes but I fail to see EWTN being a conduit for such positions.
 
I watch mostly EWTN. I find it to be excellent, and predominently orthodox in it’s programming approach. Yes, they have to throw in a plug now and again for money. They don’t accept advertising from outside. Just think of it as a holy PBS. At least they don’t break your Yanni concert into 4 sections and show a bank of phone operators while holding you hostage for your donation for 15 out of every 60 minutes during pledge drive. 😉

And seriously, at least where I live, there isn’t another catholic TV channel. I don’t know if others have choices or not. They have a LOT of different catholics to teach and entertain, and have a wide spectrum of programming to accomplish it.

I can’t see what they’re doing wrong. Perhaps if I ever saw any competition.

There is RealCatholicTV on the internet, which sometimes is just this side of SSPX. You won’t find anything secular there, if want a less rounded view of our Church. I do like a lot of the programing there, and I watch a couple hours a week. But by far, it’s normally EWTN for me. The way others watch NBC, CBS, FOX, ABC etc. I’ve gotta have my Mother Angelica, and Fr.s Groeschel and Pacwa, and so many others. They are large bright spots in my week.

God bless Mother Angelica, and her network EWTN.

Peace,

Steven
 
Hello Br. JR,

You lost me on a couple of points.
  1. How can you be a strong secular Catholic? This is schizophrenic, (I know schizophrenia does not technically mean a split personality; however, that is how the term is applied here), in nature; you’re either secular or your Catholic; a house divided against itself cannot stand.
  2. I do not recall Mother Angelica EVER commenting on how she was going to hand the station over to secularists; in fact, I remember the exact opposite. I remember on more than one occasion when she remarked in her live show, (that aired Tuesdays and Wednesdays), “she would burn the place to the ground,” before she would let the likes of Turner, (which whom she had a long running rivalry with for years), or anyone else get control of the place.
Also, none of her programs were of a secular nature from the mid '80s onward; and it stayed that way up until she suffered that aneurism and had to relinquish control of the network in 2001. That does not sound like an organization that is secular in nature or intent; or an organization accustomed to building something up and then handing it off to secularists.

I find no basis for this argument.

Oremus pro invicem,

Sean C. :knight2:
I think you misquoted the second point in your post, about Mother Angelica ‘burning the network to the ground’-Ted Turner had nothing to do with it. She was referring to bishops wanting to get control of EWTN and impose their own [liberal] view of Catholicism on it. She was always ‘butting heads’ with various bishops and priests who were against her and EWTN. They resented the fact that she was succeeding with television while the bishops were failing…and they were failing BIG TIME!

Read Raymond Arroyo’s biography of Mother. It has the whole story.

She relinquished her role as EWTN CEO and placed it in the care of the laity.
 
I have nothing against Life on the Rock, I only stated it because it’s the only thing even close to being “modern”. I watched all the time when I was in high school.
I’m not a young person, and I happen to like Life On The Rock! It’s always good to see the energy and enthusiasm of young Catholics for the Faith, although the way some of them talk (constant use of ‘like’, ‘you know’, and the high-pitched voices of the female guests) gets on my nerves at times.

I also like the interaction between Father Mark and Doug Barry. Father is the laid-back easy-going straight man (I’m using comedy team terms here 😉 ), while Doug is the fast-talking hyperactive funny man.

But I saw another side to Doug Barry when I watched his one-man show on the Passion of Our Lord. WOW! It was intense! I was as drained as he must haven been afterwards!
 
I download programs to my ipod and listen in the car or while work around the house. Every Monday, Wednesday and Friday they have “Open Line”; that is a learning experience. Fr. Mitch is just great in a Q&A format.

I have never watched on TV but will listen to 5-6 hours of podcasts from EWTN every week.
 
I’m not a young person, and I happen to like Life On The Rock! It’s always good to see the energy and enthusiasm of young Catholics for the Faith, although the way some of them talk (constant use of ‘like’, ‘you know’, and the high-pitched voices of the female guests) gets on my nerves at times.

I also like the interaction between Father Mark and Doug Barry. Father is the laid-back easy-going straight man (I’m using comedy team terms here 😉 ), while Doug is the fast-talking hyperactive funny man.

But I saw another side to Doug Barry when I watched his one-man show on the Passion of Our Lord. WOW! It was intense! I was as drained as he must haven been afterwards!
I’m not young either, but Life on the Rock has always been my favorite show on EWTN. Its even better now that my daughter is 12, the edge of the target audience.

Not every show is going to appeal to every Catholic but I do think EWTN does a good job of trying to meet the variety of tastes of their Catholic audience.
 
I love EWTN! Both the radio shows and television shows. The only program I have found that I don’t like/can’t watch is The World Over. And that is just because the host rubs me the wrong way, not because I dislike the content.
Yeah…He seems like the kind of guy who has never, ever gotten his hands dirty!
I like the show, though! Just teasing Mr. Raymond Arrroyo a little…
 
I think you misquoted the second point in your post, about Mother Angelica ‘burning the network to the ground’-Ted Turner had nothing to do with it. She was referring to bishops wanting to get control of EWTN and impose their own [liberal] view of Catholicism on it. She was always ‘butting heads’ with various bishops and priests who were against her and EWTN. They resented the fact that she was succeeding with television while the bishops were failing…and they were failing BIG TIME!

Read Raymond Arroyo’s biography of Mother. It has the whole story.

She relinquished her role as EWTN CEO and placed it in the care of the laity.
I didn’t read the book, so I don’t know if Raymond Arroyo explained the ownership problem or not.

Aside from the differences between Mother and some bishops, at the end of the day the Vatican did send in a Apostolic Visitor from the Diocese of San Juan, PR. The only red flag that he found was ownership.

I’m not privy to the details. In broad strokes, conflict with bishops or not, the Poor Clares could not own EWTN. Therefore, they could not sell it. They had to surrender it at the Vatican’s command and to whomever the Vatican commanded. It made perfect sense to create a secular corporation that has nothing to do with the Franciscan family or the USCCB. The network retains its autonomy and there is no question of legal ownership or violation of the Franciscan Rule. The only thing they need from the Church is permission to use the name Catholic. As long as they’re orthodox, the local bishop is not going to take that away. You have to do something really really bad to lose the right to call yourself Catholic, like St. Joseph’s Hospital and the abortion case. EWTN has never done anything that is questionable.

There are always going to be some difficulties between individuals. It’s part of the human condition. I sometimes think that people read too much into the relationship between Mother and the bishops. If push came to shove, the Vatican could have given EWTN to whomever it wished. If the bishops really wanted EWTN, they could have gone through the Vatican. To me, that says that whatever difficulties there were, it was not with the entire USCCB, but with individuals.

Whenever this point comes up, I wish there were a way that we could make lay people understand this. Franciscans only have the rights that are granted to us by: The Rule of St. Francis, the Council of Trent, Vatican II and Canon Law of 1983. Legally, the bishops cannot take away property from exempt religious without the pope’s permission. However, legally, Franciscans may not own property without permission. Somewhere along the line, the Poor Clares could not own EWTN forever. I highly doubt that they would want to do so. This is a much bigger operation that what Mother dreamed of. It’s really a living miracle.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
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