Ex-Catholic Fundamentalists

[Shoshana]

StubbleSpark:

Maybe what God wants is for you to graciously accept his “tripe.” !

Hi Stubble,

Thank you for answering my post. I have tried for many years to give him a lot of leeway and explaining to my mom that at least he is a christian. I must be fair and try to put it in a nutshell exactly what happened. 23 years ago when his mongoloid daughter was born he experienced a deep crisis (to be understood) and finally became religious by joining my grandmother’s church which she herself help to establish (Calvary Gospel). He went on a rampage against Catholics then. At my daughter’s first communion, he left leaflets on each person’s car (except for family). I know this because my pastor did say the people complained about this. The ceremony was at 2:00 pm as the communicating class was huge. It became very clear that it was him as the the families’ car were not targeted. He would know these cars. As I had to go to the hospital for bowel surgery the next day, I let it go. The rampage continued.

Years went by and it seemed that things were quieting down again and he became human again. He even started to talk about other things other than religion. Then they joined Faith Tabernacle. And he we go again@@@ Last year, his wife gave an off the cuff remark and all this patience of mine was thrown down the drain and I came down on both of them hard. I did regret this and I apologized but that did not matter. He retaliated for months after by sending out letters to EVERYONE in the family how (we have a big family) I REALLY was. My standing in the family did not change though. He sent me a birthday card and told me he forgave me. Well, after all of this retaliation, I do not exactly call it forgiveness. Not the Jesus kind of forgiveness. Well, I let these letters circulate (even to the children of the family) without one word to him. The argument was with me, not the whole family…And to this day he is still ranting. His Jesus told him that I was evil, etc etc.

Yes, this is getting harder and harder. My sentiments are not so tender anymore. I truly am finding it difficult to deal with him so I keep away in presence and in word. It is not too hard as he does not include me in his family gatherings. He visited my mom yesterday and always tests her and puts her on the spot. He always implies a holier than thou stance. it is very painful for my mom. Although, he did not make her cry this time. He did say that the CC has cursed him. Again, he has this upside down,…he has cursed himself. This from someone who does not know the faith enough to even comment on it. His anti-Catholic statements are coming from somewhere else. I also believe that there is a psychological component.

For years, I have tried to unite the family as I am the oldest. I have quit this role many years ago realizing that you cannot change anybody. He thinks himself spiritual but is very destrustive when it comes to the family. At one point he almost lost his job also because of his evangelizing. So, you can imagine the impact on the family. I also realized that this kind of Christianity is only surface deep as it doesn’t take much to get him flying. And he also does not understand forgiveness…

Enough said.
Blessings,
Shoshana

 

[Shoshana]

I forgot to mention that the leaflets that were left on people’s cars during my daughter’s first communion were distributed to all of the cars and not any of the familes. And there is a lot of family!!! The leaflets said in no uncertain terms that Catholics were all going to hell…go figure! But that was forgiven but he never apologized for insulting my parish community…

Blessings,
Shoshana

 

[Maccabees]

Shoshana:

My brother left the CC to go Anglican than go Calvary Gospel then go Faith Tabernacle.
Shoshana

Gee he left the one true church for one of many. His own church hopping proves it. There is no truth to him just a preference. Jesus was the way the turth and the life not one of many options and his body the church is not an option either. He sounds confused if left for once church and stayed I could understand it. But he souds really confused pray for him and hope. There is not much else to do as of now.

 

[catsrus]

I posted about this elsewhere (don’t remember which thread) and quite awhile back but, anyway…

I nastiest, most virulent anti Catholic I’ve ever met is an ex-Catholic fundie that I once had to work with. She even admitted to me once, “I HATE that Church!” (emphasis hers) When I asked her why, her reasons were as follows:

1. Her mother named her after a Nun and she didn’t like her name.
2. A Nun once hollored at her in church for laughing during Mass.
3. She hated her father to whom her mother stayed married because of Church teaching.

All of which points out the petty, selfish “reasoning” of some who have left the Faith. I’ve yet to talk to an ex-Catholic who left because of Doctinal issues. I’m sure they’re out there somewhere. I just haven’t ever had one tell me that was the reason.

 

[Catholic4aReasn]

Shoshana:

Hi Stubble,

Thank you for answering my post. I have tried for many years to give him a lot of leeway and explaining to my mom that at least he is a christian. I must be fair and try to put it in a nutshell exactly what happened. 23 years ago when his mongoloid daughter was born he experienced a deep crisis (to be understood) and finally became religious by joining my grandmother’s church which she herself help to establish (Calvary Gospel). He went on a rampage against Catholics then. At my daughter’s first communion, he left leaflets on each person’s car (except for family). I know this because my pastor did say the people complained about this. The ceremony was at 2:00 pm as the communicating class was huge. It became very clear that it was him as the the families’ car were not targeted. He would know these cars. As I had to go to the hospital for bowel surgery the next day, I let it go. The rampage continued.

Years went by and it seemed that things were quieting down again and he became human again. He even started to talk about other things other than religion. Then they joined Faith Tabernacle. And he we go again@@@ Last year, his wife gave an off the cuff remark and all this patience of mine was thrown down the drain and I came down on both of them hard. I did regret this and I apologized but that did not matter. He retaliated for months after by sending out letters to EVERYONE in the family how (we have a big family) I REALLY was. My standing in the family did not change though. He sent me a birthday card and told me he forgave me. Well, after all of this retaliation, I do not exactly call it forgiveness. Not the Jesus kind of forgiveness. Well, I let these letters circulate (even to the children of the family) without one word to him. The argument was with me, not the whole family…And to this day he is still ranting. His Jesus told him that I was evil, etc etc.

Yes, this is getting harder and harder. My sentiments are not so tender anymore. I truly am finding it difficult to deal with him so I keep away in presence and in word. It is not too hard as he does not include me in his family gatherings. He visited my mom yesterday and always tests her and puts her on the spot. He always implies a holier than thou stance. it is very painful for my mom. Although, he did not make her cry this time. He did say that the CC has cursed him. Again, he has this upside down,…he has cursed himself. This from someone who does not know the faith enough to even comment on it. His anti-Catholic statements are coming from somewhere else. I also believe that there is a psychological component.

For years, I have tried to unite the family as I am the oldest. I have quit this role many years ago realizing that you cannot change anybody. He thinks himself spiritual but is very destrustive when it comes to the family. At one point he almost lost his job also because of his evangelizing. So, you can imagine the impact on the family. I also realized that this kind of Christianity is only surface deep as it doesn’t take much to get him flying. And he also does not understand forgiveness…

Enough said.
Blessings,
Shoshana

 

[StubbleSpark]

Shoshana,

Reading about your brother and his leaflets, my mind was filled with images of how the Church and her people were attacked in the Saracen invasion: with large rocks and many swords. A little too ironic then, that you had bowel surgery right when I am thinking about helpless Christians being cut open by bloody scimitars. Coinicidence?

I think a look at the lives of the saints would help. Especially, (seeing as I am thinking about the Crusades) those of the Order of Our Lady of Mercy for the Redemption of Captives www.orderofmercy.org . These were not your ordinary order of Knights and priests. They did not fight so much as buy people out of Muslim slavery in order to keep them from recanting their Chrisitan beliefs (Islamic teaching forbids enslaving a fellow Muslim).

For this, they begged from their own people, braved bandits across hostile seas and deserts, endured the whining of the people they freed, and died horrible deaths. When seen through the lense of their history, the beheadings by today’s terrorists is just more of a very old thing. One saint was burned at the stake, but did not die in the process. So they stoned him. One has to wonder exactly what was going on in his mind as he endured two deaths.

I know everyone here is committed to living for Christ, but how many of us can safely say that we DIE for Him – and on a daily basis? We need to ask ourselves everyday: How have I died for Him? After all, He died for us and we are called to immitate Him in all things. We cannot return the favor, but we can try to walk in His footsteps.

You cannot bring your family back together by force of will. God gave us free hearts for a reason – they are necessary to love. My advice: petition the Holy Spirit. And hiding a Green Scapular somewhere near your brother would not hurt either.

And watch The Lord of the Rings: Two Towers (or read it). Think about the Battle at Helm’s Deep as an alegory for how both the culture of death and bigotted fundamentalism forge an unlikely alliance to attack our Church from all sides. There will be pain and there will be loss. But we can never give up hope!

“What can one man do against so much reckless hate?”
“Ride out with me!”

Have faith. Gandalf will come. Only when the Holy Spirit finally moves your brother it will be more glorious than a thousand Gandalfs on a thousand white chargers.

Endure…
Peace will come
Hope.
Pray.
Endure…
What else is there?

 

[rcwhiteh]

We NEED a protestant style Young Adults group or a singles group

You go and institute a Protestant-style young-adults group, and soon enough you will drive young people into the arms of the Protestants.

I grew up Protestant and attended these YA group meetings; more often than not, we only went to flirt with the girls.

Better to set up a chapter of the Dead Theologians Society and get young people together to discuss the nature of Catholic belief. Let’s let our kids grow up to be Catholics, not Protestant wannabes.

 

[La_Chiara]

rcwhiteh:

You go and institute a Protestant-style young-adults group, and soon enough you will drive young people into the arms of the Protestants.

I grew up Protestant and attended these YA group meetings; more often than not, we only went to flirt with the girls.

Better to set up a chapter of the Dead Theologians Society and get young people together to discuss the nature of Catholic belief. Let’s let our kids grow up to be Catholics, not Protestant wannabes.

Very true. A Protestant-style youth group focuses on fun and fellowship, and teaches kids that “religion” is fun when it is games, and songs, and Christianity “lite”. Catholic kids fed such drivel quickly decide that Catholicism is not nearly as much fun and fellowship as the non-denominational church across town. And then we have lost them. Which is not to say that Catholic youth groups should not learn from Protestant or “non-denominational” youth groups. But Catholic youth groups need to include religious education and service with the fun and fellowship. It can be done. Though to our youth who have been raised on television, rock music, movies, and short attention spans, a Catholic youth group still tends to compare unfavorably to a Protestant youth group. Unfortunately. (But then as parents, we need to remind our kids of the beauty and richness of our faith.)

 

[GULaw]

kwitz:

It’s even more interesting when you contrast the former Catholic’s attitudes with former Fundamentalists who convert to Catholicism. These converts always speak fondly of their previous faith and how important it was in their eventual conversion to Catholicism.

Kris

Hmm, interesting. As a convert from a particularly virulent strain of charismatic fundamentalism, by way of a detour through about a decade of angry, militant agnosticism (“I don’t know at you don’t either”), I’m none to fond of my original religious upbringing. Not that I’m proud of this fact - I recognize that I can easily be unforgiving and bitter, both deeply sinful conditions that I have to be very cautious about. It’s a negative thing, but I do stand as a counter-example. Since my conversion, I have made great strides in forgiveness and trust, but it is still a struggle, and I would never say that I came to the Church because of my prior religious experience - it was in spite of it.

Speaking from this side of the divide, my explanation for the anger (no doubt felt by many converts of all stripes) is a feeling that one was betrayed by those entrusted with one’s spiritual well-being and development. In my own case, when I read the Bible for myself as a teenager and found even the most minor contradictions (David’s census numbers being different in 2 Sam 24 and 1 Chron 21 being one example - incredibly mundane, but so obvious that I have a clear memory of being jolted by it) as proof that those who had taught me absolute, literal Biblical infallibility had either lied or had been so blase about the truth that they had never bothered to discover what a 14-yr old kid could pick out of the OT the first time through. That’s a deep hurt, and one that takes a long time to heal. Does it justify or excuse vitriolic attacks? Not at all. But boy, do I ever understand them.

 

[Franze]

But the truth here in Spain I have seen that in the parishes more actives in activities more catholics are, my ideas would be:
Forming a group of Caritas to help the poor people
Groups of Bible and Adoration of the Holy Sacrament
Visiting residences and prisons and fight the loniness of the people
Many other ideas can born, greetings

 

[shannin]

SPOKENWORD:

I believe there was this Methodist pastor. White I recall who grew his church to over 10000 people. He new every one by name.WOW! When I was in the rcc church I dont think I could call 5 people by thier first names. I think a mens or ladies fellowship night would be great place to start.We talk about unity in the body of Christ but I guess its in spirit only.

How can having a Methodist pastor know your name compare with the beauty of the seven sacraments? I wouldn’t give up the Eucharist for anything. I do agree though, that Catholics have a long way to go as far as welcoming newcomers into the Church.

Shannin

 

[SPOKENWORD]

shannin:

How can having a Methodist pastor know your name compare with the beauty of the seven sacraments? I wouldn’t give up the Eucharist for anything. I do agree though, that Catholics have a long way to go as far as welcoming newcomers into the Church.

Shannin

Does your pastor know your name? I though its the pastors job to know thier sheep? Jesus said I call you by name,why not our pastors? By the way the church doesnt have the claim to Jesus Christ. He is for All christians. How can I give up what I have living in me,that is Jesus Christ. God Bless.

 

[cestusdei]

If you would have God as your Father you must have the Church as your mother. We don’t seperate the Head from the body.

I don’t know every parishioner. Few people can know thousands of names. Especially when you don’t see them every Sunday. Some parishes are so large a pastor would have to learn 10,000 names. You try it and tell me how easy that is.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

cestusdei:

If you would have God as your Father you must have the Church as your mother. We don’t seperate the Head from the body.

I don’t know every parishioner. Few people can know thousands of names. Especially when you don’t see them every Sunday. Some parishes are so large a pastor would have to learn 10,000 names. You try it and tell me how easy that is.

Oh come on now. Jesus knows us all by name.And thats billions!! God Bless.

 

[cestusdei]

Sure, he does. But I challenge you to go out and learn a few thousand names. Then come back and tell us how some overworked priest is failing in his duty.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

cestusdei:

Sure, he does. But I challenge you to go out and learn a few thousand names. Then come back and tell us how some overworked priest is failing in his duty.

Im not doing that unless I become a priest. God Bless.

 

[Catholic4aReasn]

Whether or not a priest knows the names of all his parishioners has no effect at all on the truth of what the Church teaches.

In Christ,
Nancy

 

[SPOKENWORD]

Catholic4aReasn:

Whether or not a priest knows the names of all his parishioners has no effect at all on the truth of what the Church teaches.

In Christ,
Nancy

True,but its nice to know that you are known as part of the flock by name. God Bless.

 

[JW10631]

I used to work with an ex-Catholic fundie.
She repeated several of the same worn-out attacks, such as “Catholics worship statues”, and “There are no saints in the Bible”. I did not know my faith as well then as I know it now, so I did not argue this with her. Besides, it was in an office setting, and religious arguments have no place in the workplace.

If someone started that with me today, I would be able to shut him/her down in seconds. Being a pseudo-intellectual, I completely reject the notion of “sola fide” and “sola scriptura” as false on their faces. Besides, a knowledge of Scripture isn’t the same as living it. I could memorize The Communist Manifesto but that wouldn’t make me a commie - not that I would ever want to become one.

For some reason, those simpleton arguments about statue worship and no “saints” didn’t work on me like they worked on her. I attribute that, in part, to a particular event that happened to me early in life.

 

[Minerva]

fortunately I have not met very many anti-Catholic fundies - pretty much every anti-Catholic bigot I know is either secular or liberal protestant. But I do know of quite a few people who left the RCC for evangelical type churches. It’s always the same thing - a young person bored with Mass (not that I can blame them considering how banal and irreverent most parish Masses are) who then sees an exciting vibrant Protestant youth group or church. THe young Catholic is not well catechised at all - his or her parents aren’t practicing or if they are, they’re just going through the motions. This teen wants Christ, wants SOMETHING in her life, and doesn’t “feel” like she’s getting it from the RCC. BEcause she hasn’t been taught the faith, she doesn’t realize the importance of the Eucharist, of being in Christ’s church, that religion is not based on what you “feel”, etc, etc. So she or he becomes a fundie. Not necessarily anti-Catholic though, in my experience at least.

I have, however, never heard of any Catholic who truly knew his or her faith, leaving the RCC for a fundie or evangelical church. Well-educated and formed Catholics who leave the faith generally become completely secular.