Ex-Catholic Fundamentalists

[StubbleSpark]

Very good for the soul!

Since becoming Catholic, I have found my life so thoroughly enriched. No matter what I am in the mood for, whether it be music, art, philosophy, science, theology, humor, anything and everything is so engrossing and wonderful! I have read so much and learned so much and the beautiful thing is that the conversion keeps going. Just when I think I am incapable of taking the next step, suddenly BAM! I find myself on the other side of the gulf.

Life is so much more colorful, more dramatic, more meaningful, richer, fuller, brighter, happier – it is like a veil has been cut from my eyes and I am seeing things as they are for the first time. Life as it was meant to be. Life as God wants it to be. I cannot understand why anyone would want to leave this beautiful existence, even if they do believe a new religion can give them license to sin!

 

[Chris_Jacobsen]

Protestant fundamentalists use one phrase to describe the two very important things they offer that the Catholic Church does not offer. The one phrase is “Christian fellowship.”

What is Christian fellowship? Christian fellowship is learning about the Christian while making friends at the same time.

Christian fellowship something Protestant Fundamentalists do fairly well and is something very important to them.

Christian fellowship consists of two very important things. They are learning about one’s religion and making friends with good people.

And what is the Catholic priest’s position regarding Christian fellowship? My years of battles with the priests over this very thing, convince me that the priests are vehemently opposed.

What are the the two very important things?

If the Catholic priests continue to be strongly opposed to good Catholics meeting each other, Catholics will continue to either join fundamentalist churches where they can meet good people. Or most likely go to the bars to meet people, drink heavily, hope to stay out of trouble and try like everyone to pick up members of the opposite sex and take them home for the night. This is not a very good foundation for marriage as the divorce rates show.

The Catholic Church needs to encourage and to set up places and activities where Catholics can get to know each other and become real friends with each other. This is one of the very important things. Real Catholic friendship.

If the Catholic priests continue to be strongly opposed to a religious education program that is a quality educational program, Catholics will continue to go somewhere else. Some will go to fundamentalist churches. Most will drift away from religion altogether and accept as their beliefs and values whatever the media happens to be teaching today

So, the other very important thing is learning about the Catholic religion. Catholics need to learn the basics. They need to learn how to explain the Catholic Faith to other people. Churches need to offer a religious education program that is a first rate educational program for all ages through adult.

The Catholic Church needs to offer the two important things: 1) A quality religious education program and 2) A place to make good Catholic friends. Fundalmentalists combine the two and call it Christian Fellowship.

Catholic parishes must stop saying to young adults and single adults, “Were sorry, but this is a family parish.” And they must stop thinking “Now that they are 18, they are out of our hair.”

Unless the Catholic Church promotes Christian Fellowship and provides the two important things, kids who were raised Catholic will continue to get out of the Catholic Church’s hair when they reach 18, permanently.

 

[Franze]

Very interesting Chris, I have seen this in my town, they aren´t young people, but I discovered in Opus Dei Clubs people of my age and this helps, greetings

 

[Booklover]

StubbleSpark:

Oh, and here is stab at what the two things are that Protestant churches offer that Catholic Churches do not (and they are tempting):

1. Freedom to sin
2. Freddom to reinvent God

That’s been my personal experience…

Great post! I burst out laughing when I read it. You made my day!

 

[Church_Militant]

password:

I know when my husband (then boyfriend) left the catholic faith, he had felt that everything he was taught and brought up on was a lie. He felt betrayed.

He left after we had started a premarriage bible study which sort of forced him to read scripture for himself.

Funny, but that is exactly how I feel about the Protestant teachings I was exposed to for 34 years before I came back to the Catholic Church because I read up and checked it all out very carefully and discovered that I had been misled about what the Catholic Church teaches. I found that Catholicism IS the NT Christianity and is both Biblical and Traditional as well as historic. Password, I would suggest that you and your husband do some serious reading of real Catholic books like Surprised By Truth (I cried as I read parts of this as I realised just how stupid I had been!) or that you begin with the free courses of the Catholic Home Study Service amm.org/chss/chss.htm
The courses are free and the books by Fr Lukefahr are terrific. They were instrumental in my return to the faith.

http://pages.prodigy.net/indianahawkeye/newpage05/20.gif

P.S. It’s rough when ya begin to read the Bible and find things out of context that seem to contradict Catholic beliefs. I’ve found that it’s really just the other way 'round. Non-Catholics pull WAY too much stuff outta context and make doctrines outta them.

 

[Laurel]

Please read my note at the end of this…

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philthy
*I haven’t read many of the posts so forgive me if Im repeating. We Catholics must be honest with ourselves about the good and bad in the RCC in the US today. You seriously wonder why people don’t have nice things to say about their Catholic experience? If I had to single out the most important things it would be that the SENSE OF COMMUNITY that should exist often does not. Most “Catholics” attend Church once a week at best, and then have nothing else to do with the people in their parish. There is no particular bond other than being a vaguely familiar face at church. No dialogue, no relationship, no shared experience, nothing. This is radically different at many Protestant denoms. The emphasis is on relationships entirely: the relationship with Jesus and with each other (fellowship). People actually become friends and their lives intertwine as a result of their church. And when this happens they look back at the Catholic Church and see a hollow shell. It sounds so rediculoulsy obvious that it shouldn’t be this way, but I have not found it to be so in the Catholic church for a large majority of the people who belong. And once this element is missing and people are just on their own - not learning their faith, not reading Scripture, etc. their faith remains adolescent and they become somewhat alienated in it and come to associate that reality as their impression of what the Church is - a place where they go once a week and leave most of what they gain from it.

Phil*

Quote
I think you are sooo right about a lack of community feeling in most parishes. My wife is a recent convert and continually points out that we havn’t made a single friend at the parish we attend. We try to introduce ourselves, we hit the pancake breakfast and the donuts after mass…but everyone has a ‘seperation of Church and Real Life’ kind of attitude. There are so many people we see every single week at mass…and we don’t even know their names. We all say our “peace be with you’s”, shake hands and then ignore each other…

How can we change this? I am NOT a leader, and I don’t like to be the center of attention, but I’m almost to the point of wanting to do something about it. We NEED a protestant style Young Adults group or a singles group. We need more ‘fellowship’…I think that many many people are turned from the Church due to a perceived ‘cold-shoulder’ given by the parish…

These are very good examples of why I turned to C.S in the first place. Please read my thread, I am a Cath w/a C.S question, and if you agree with these posts I have qouted here and can help me find the help in the religion I was baptized into and later confirmed, that I do from C.S I would be forever grateful. I am not rebelling against anyone, just trying to heal and make sense of it all.

 

[Mickey]

Chris Jacobsen:

Protestant fundamentalists use one phrase to describe the two very important things they offer that the Catholic Church does not offer. The one phrase is “Christian fellowship.”

What is Christian fellowship? Christian fellowship is learning about the Christian while making friends at the same time.

Christian fellowship something Protestant Fundamentalists do fairly well and is something very important to them.

Christian fellowship consists of two very important things. They are learning about one’s religion and making friends with good people.

And what is the Catholic priest’s position regarding Christian fellowship? My years of battles with the priests over this very thing, convince me that the priests are vehemently opposed.

What are the the two very important things?

If the Catholic priests continue to be strongly opposed to good Catholics meeting each other, Catholics will continue to either join fundamentalist churches where they can meet good people. Or most likely go to the bars to meet people, drink heavily, hope to stay out of trouble and try like everyone to pick up members of the opposite sex and take them home for the night. This is not a very good foundation for marriage as the divorce rates show.

The Catholic Church needs to encourage and to set up places and activities where Catholics can get to know each other and become real friends with each other. This is one of the very important things. Real Catholic friendship.

If the Catholic priests continue to be strongly opposed to a religious education program that is a quality educational program, Catholics will continue to go somewhere else. Some will go to fundamentalist churches. Most will drift away from religion altogether and accept as their beliefs and values whatever the media happens to be teaching today

So, the other very important thing is learning about the Catholic religion. Catholics need to learn the basics. They need to learn how to explain the Catholic Faith to other people. Churches need to offer a religious education program that is a first rate educational program for all ages through adult.

The Catholic Church needs to offer the two important things: 1) A quality religious education program and 2) A place to make good Catholic friends. Fundalmentalists combine the two and call it Christian Fellowship.

Catholic parishes must stop saying to young adults and single adults, “Were sorry, but this is a family parish.” And they must stop thinking “Now that they are 18, they are out of our hair.”

Unless the Catholic Church promotes Christian Fellowship and provides the two important things, kids who were raised Catholic will continue to get out of the Catholic Church’s hair when they reach 18, permanently.

Dear Chris,

It sounds like you had a very bad experience somewhere! In all my years in the Catholic Church, I never met a priest who discouraged the learning of one’s faith and the making of friends with good people. (christian fellowship)

Other points of interest:

1. The protestant divorce rate is higher than the Catholic divorce rate.
2. The Catholic Church does encourage and set up places and activities where Catholics can meet and form relationships.
3. The Catholic education programs are superb.
4. There is not a mass exodus from Catholicism to fundamentalism.
5. I’ve never heard of a parish abandoning young adults at the age of 18.

I am perplexed. Where do you get your info? Is this just your interpretation of how the Catholic Church operates?

 

[Malachi4U]

SPOKENWORD:

Jay ,why do i feel like there is a shadow chasing me? If you notice I mentioned fellowship outside the services.Why must you put down protestant bretheren. Maybe you could learn something from them instead of condemming them.That holiest than thou attitude.

What’s good for the gander isn’t good for the goose now? Uhm?:tsktsk:

 

[TNT]

Originally Posted by Chris Jacobsen
*
Protestant fundamentalists use one phrase to describe the two very important things they offer that the Catholic Church does not offer. The one phrase is “Christian fellowship.”

What is Christian fellowship? Christian fellowship is learning about the Christian while making friends at the same time.
**

---

When the Catholic school system was in place, those very 2 features were well established. I was so steeped in the faith and had such a complete social life like intra mural sports, dances every Fri nite, school Mass on Wed, Fri morning. All this was by the nuns who were very close to the students from 1st grade to 12th.
During those decades you hardly new a prot existed except for strange buildings passed going to school. Even in summer we had dances and school picnics at amusement parks, lakes etc.
This interaction also was the cause of high cath-to-cath marriages, long since gone.

When the Church no longer supported the religious and the schools died, the prot activity agenda filled the gap. They discovered it because their new friends were in the public schools and many were prot.
And that’s the way it was…

 

[Maccabees]

Laurel:

Please read my note at the end of this…

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philthy
I haven’t read many of the posts so forgive me if Im repeating. We Catholics must be honest with ourselves about the good and bad in the RCC in the US today. You seriously wonder why people don’t have nice things to say about their Catholic experience? If I had to single out the most important things it would be that the SENSE OF COMMUNITY that should exist often does not. Most “Catholics” attend Church once a week at best, and then have nothing else to do with the people in their parish. There is no particular bond other than being a vaguely familiar face at church. No dialogue, no relationship, no shared experience, nothing. This is radically different at many Protestant denoms. The emphasis is on relationships entirely: the relationship with Jesus and with each other (fellowship). People actually become friends and their lives intertwine as a result of their church. And when this happens they look back at the Catholic Church and see a hollow shell. It sounds so rediculoulsy obvious that it shouldn’t be this way, but I have not found it to be so in the Catholic church for a large majority of the people who belong. And once this element is missing and people are just on their own - not learning their faith, not reading Scripture, etc. their faith remains adolescent and they become somewhat alienated in it and come to associate that reality as their impression of what the Church is - a place where they go once a week and leave most of what they gain from it.

Phil

Quote
I think you are sooo right about a lack of community feeling in most parishes. My wife is a recent convert and continually points out that we havn’t made a single friend at the parish we attend. We try to introduce ourselves, we hit the pancake breakfast and the donuts after mass…but everyone has a ‘seperation of Church and Real Life’ kind of attitude. There are so many people we see every single week at mass…and we don’t even know their names. We all say our “peace be with you’s”, shake hands and then ignore each other…

How can we change this? I am NOT a leader, and I don’t like to be the center of attention, but I’m almost to the point of wanting to do something about it. We NEED a protestant style Young Adults group or a singles group. We need more ‘fellowship’…I think that many many people are turned from the Church due to a perceived ‘cold-shoulder’ given by the parish…

These are very good examples of why I turned to C.S in the first place. Please read my thread, I am a Cath w/a C.S question, and if you agree with these posts I have qouted here and can help me find the help in the religion I was baptized into and later confirmed, that I do from C.S I would be forever grateful. I am not rebelling against anyone, just trying to heal and make sense of it all.

Wrong again we don’t need to be more protestant we need to be more catholic. What has happned to the catholic church since the post vatican 2 days is that its become to much like protestantism.
We need to revert to a reverent worship and teach sound cathchetics. Mainline protestants have the same problem catholics have in terms of the competing touch feeling seeker friendly evangelical churches have. Instead of complaining about it do something about it lazy! start a small church group that is intimate and focuses of fellowship. Your priest will thank you if you do it and not ask his tired self to do it. Our priest are overworked and can’t do everything themsleves volunteer and stop complaining. I know of several vibrant catholic parishes that surpass anything protestants have to offer and I know some dead catholic churches. I wouldn’t overgenerlzie like you have. The differnence is the dead churches are full of people like you who complain about the catholic church and do nothing and leave pure the greener grass of evangelical churches. The vibrant catholic parishes just do it! It-meaning whatever they noticed lacking in the church.

 

[zzzimbob]

T. More:

In my experience the Catholics I know that have left Catholicisim for the Protestant Church have typically done so in large part because they knew serious Protestants who were very serious about their religion. While doctrinal differences accompany the conversion, I think at an existential level, the Catholic-to-Protestant converts see people living out their faith in a very serious way, which they had not seen before. This leaves them with the impression that what they are entering in the real deal and what they are leaving is fake.

T. More

That is exactly what almost led me out of the Catholic Church a couple of years ago (in addition to a poor catechesis). After years of being lukewarm about my faith, I finally started to really embrace it and try to live it. But I noticed that my Fundamentalist co-workers really seemed to let their faith permeate their entire lives, while many Catholics I knew seemed to leave it behind after Mass. And some of them didn’t even seem to practice it during Mass. (For example, it’s very disconcerting when you’re trying to concentrate on the Mass, and a guy next to you in the choir is lusting out loud after a girl in the pews.)

Seeing those differing behaviors between Catholics and Fundamentalists can really give a person serious doubts about the Catholic Church - especially when you’re also seeing the priest sex scandal unfold in the media.

I think that some people will come to the Catholic Church through apologetics and the seeking of certitude about scripture, but many more will be drawn to her when they see her people trying their best to live in a Christ-like manner.

 

[Catholic4aReasn]

zzzimbob:

That is exactly what almost led me out of the Catholic Church a couple of years ago (in addition to a poor catechesis). After years of being lukewarm about my faith, I finally started to really embrace it and try to live it. But I noticed that my Fundamentalist co-workers really seemed to let their faith permeate their entire lives, while many Catholics I knew seemed to leave it behind after Mass. And some of them didn’t even seem to practice it during Mass. (For example, it’s very disconcerting when you’re trying to concentrate on the Mass, and a guy next to you in the choir is lusting out loud after a girl in the pews.)

Seeing those differing behaviors between Catholics and Fundamentalists can really give a person serious doubts about the Catholic Church - especially when you’re also seeing the priest sex scandal unfold in the media.

I think that some people will come to the Catholic Church through apologetics and the seeking of certitude about scripture, but many more will be drawn to her when they see her people trying their best to live in a Christ-like manner.

Hi zzzimbob!

If the Catholic Church is the Church founded by Christ and teaches the truth is doesn’t matter the slightest what individual Catholics are doing. Should their behavior reflect Christ? Yep! Does the fact that it doesn’t in some people have a bearing on the truth of what the Church teaches? Not a bit!!

In Christ,
Nancy

 

[xopher]

Greeting everyone My name is Chris. I’m new to this forum as of today, Christmas Day, 2006. I make muic on my own record label called Underground Jesus Music. I consider it an outreach to the underground and street cultures like the goth and urban kids and adults. If you’d like to hear my music, you can do so on my MySpace page at www.myspace.com/xxxopher

Only about three weeks prior to posting this message, I was posting anti-Catholic speeches in the forums on MySpace leaving many uneducated Catholics at a loss for words. I became so zealous about my faith, for I want to excel at whatever I do, that I began to really research the topic. What better way to really defeat your enemy than to use his own ideology! However, as I began to really study Catholicism, my views began to change. In the course of about two days, my entire pradigm shifted and I was like, “I get it!” A co-worker gave me a book to read called “Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic” I’m finding the book to be PERFECT for helping me understand Catholicism away from the Evangelical and Fundamentalist myths. With each day I get closer to better understanding Catholicism and closer to reconciling with the Church.

Although much discussion has already taken place in this forum, I just wanted to add my two cents I suppose.

Fundamentalists are taught from childhood that Catholicism is an evil distortion of the Biblical truths. It is my opinion that someone would only leave the Catholic religion if they had an improper or no true understanding of it. Therefore, when an ignorant or poorly rooted Catholic encounters a Protestant with all their myths of the evil Church, they feel betrayed. They see Catholicism as complex system that has endeavored to controll their mind and soul. On the other hand, I, a former protestant, see the Protestant churches as very simple, almost too simple. They are ignorant in much the same way a child is ignorant. They mean well, often with the greatest of sincerity. If it was not for them I would not be where I am today.

Pray for me as I continue to learn and grow

 

[xopher]

there tends to be a feeling, in some cases I believe, of being mislead by a complex church system that wants to control your mind and spirit. This is unfortunate. I think we should all strive to better understand our faith, and to be ready to answer, as the Scriptures state. 1 Peter 3:15 But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

 

[Crumpy]

As an open Catholic, I attended a Bible study at a protestant church.

There was a young lady there who seemed to have a bad relationship with her mother. I can’t tell why, but that seems relevant to her church affiliation. She would look me dead in the eye and say, " I grew up a Catholic, and then I left the church and became a Christian."

There are so many protestant groups (I have decided not to capitalize the word ‘protestant’ because there are so many different such groups), I suspect most of them encourage the perception that the convert is converting themself through the Bible and through insight. Thus, they don’t need the authority hierarchy of the Catholic Church.

You must admit that in the Catholic Church, you don’t go very far without having a priest’s touch on something. And, these forums point out how complicated, if not so immediately deep and beautiful the Catholic faith is.

I think young people, in particular, but many ex-Catholics feel a sense of relief and comfort in looking at Scripture not so much for its answers but for its authority. I suspect they want a church relationship where they are told to make up their own minds, rather than relying on the seemingly cook-book answers the Church has.

If you have this conviction that contraception is OK, then you will look for a church that endorses your point of view, and that, as others have said, before you really look into what the Catholic Church has to offer on the subject.

In “shopping” for a church, which is what some protestant ministers call it, are people really looking for objective (“out there” ) truth? or, are they looking to validate the do-anything feelings that they have.

Serious, studious converts to the Catholic Church, say over and over that “all roads lead to Rome.” – especially when they consider Church history, the history of the reformers, and take a serious look at “all” of scripture.

But, I can see why the Catholic Church can seem so claustrophobic to many young people. The learning can seem breathlessly endless and as such can rob people of the experience of being Catholic.

 

[xopher]

I agree.

One of the things that has always impressed me about both Catholics and Jews is their zeal for studies and education. Many cultures around the world, especially mainstream American protestantism, are so quick to believe any systematic set of folklore or random “doctrine” that shows the slightest hint of consistency within itself. Unlike the Jews, our culture does not really understand their own history, and they don’t seem to care. They simply follow the wind. It seems to me that too many people would rather be given simple answers that “fit” as to take the time to really study and understand the truth. I on the other hand have developed a thirst for it. Do you suppose it is an aquired taste?

 

[Shoshana]

Just an update…my anti-Catholic born again brother has just given me his enlightment…his faith is a threat to the Catholic church…

 

[Elzee]

I googled around some and found a lot of articles by ex-Catholics, but these particularly caught my eye. It appears they’re by a fundamentalist pastor who used to be Catholic. His ‘teaching’ on the early Church, the papacy, and especially his comments on Pope John Paul II made me so mad it took me three tries to get through the articles.

I’m not sure why some of these people are so bitter, but this is one man who is passing his bitterness and incorrect teachings on to his congregation. Very sad.

ewo.org/corner/viewArticle.asp?articleID=1000036

ewo.org/corner/viewArticle.asp?articleID=1000035

 

[Catherine_S]

I googled around some and found a lot of articles by ex-Catholics, but these particularly caught my eye. It appears they’re by a fundamentalist pastor who used to be Catholic. His ‘teaching’ on the early Church, the papacy, and especially his comments on Pope John Paul II made me so mad it took me three tries to get through the articles.

I’m not sure why some of these people are so bitter, but this is one man who is passing his bitterness and incorrect teachings on to his congregation. Very sad.

ewo.org/corner/viewArticle.asp?articleID=1000036

ewo.org/corner/viewArticle.asp?articleID=1000035

It never enters their minds what it will cost them if they are leading God’s little ones astray. No humility! It is more than sad!
.

---

 

[seremina]

I understand what former Protestants go through. I’m a former Protestant myself. I have no hatred nor anger towards Protestant denominations. All I feel is that I somewhat wasted a lot of my life–but I didn’t know better. You kinda can’t help it when you’re 11 and the Baptist church is all you knew. Investigation was out of the question, for I didn’t know other churches existed. I thought ALL churches were Baptist.

I can’t tell you how EASY it is to be Protestant. You’re led to believe a certain translation of verses or a certain Bible, or the King James Version…and that once you’re saved, you’re always saved…and that Baptism is symbolic and indicates entering membership in the church…and other things that aren’t Biblically supported. I went to a Christian school at the time. My favourite subject was Bible study. We were taught the Creation, the 10 Commandments, Solomon, David, Ruth, Jesus, a list of his apostles yet no mention of Judas’ being replaced, and about the End Times and the Rapture. With each year, these subjects were further explained. Bible memorisation for soulwinning was also included. I had much joy in all this.

But as I got older and older, I had questions. “What about this section in the Bible? Why doesn’t the textbook cover this? Why am I learning more about Moses in the *Ten Commandments *than in Bible study? Jesus taught these -wonderful- things… but where are they in the textbook? Why doesn’t the Youth Pastor/Bible teacher talk about this topic?” etc. It was as if I was surrounded in a tortilla named Artificial Christianity. [please do not take offense. Just using my own word-pictures here]

I finally learned there was more than one church out there. I researched them. I found many of the same problems with the others. Their following of the Bible and Jesus wasn’t complete and their teaching seemed lacking. “Have faith!” they’d say. Do you suggest I have faith in the pain of a strange empty feeling I have? I hunger for Christ! But…what’s wrong with my baby food? I don’t understand it. Catholicism never occurred to me. I don’t know why. I just know all the Baptists I knew were bashing it and saying it was manmade, blah blah blah.

In despair, I checked out other religions. When I was sick of shopping around, I checked out the one I wouldn’t check. Catholicism. Imagine my shock. I felt a pulling of my soul and an uneasy sense of satisfaction! Uneasy because I was scared. To become Catholic would mean I would become “crucified” with Christ. It also meant that salvation was a “fruit” I must receive from Christ’s “tree” and maintain it carefully within the “refrigerator” of my soul. Otherwise, it would spoil and be lost.

Its not easy, though. It requires a lot of work and constant dying to yourself. I’m scared easily by evangelisers. I always want to hide under the table and say “Please stop, in the name of Christ!”