Ex-Catholics unable to get married?

[CoffeeHound]

You don’t own a phone?

~Liza

There are scenarios where people are completely cut off for a time - international travel, working on an oil rig or fishing boat, etc. There’s probably not a need to push the issue.

I think it suffices to say that there are many priests that are available to talk on the phone, in person, by email, by text, etc. I even know one that will call on Skype or leave you a message on Facebook if you’re out of town. A person with the ability to use any of those media can find someone to help in private.

 

[lizaanne]

There are scenarios where people are completely cut off for a time - international travel, working on an oil rig or fishing boat, etc. There’s probably not a need to push the issue.

I think it suffices to say that there are many priests that are available to talk on the phone, in person, by email, by text, etc. I even know one that will call on Skype or leave you a message on Facebook if you’re out of town. A person with the ability to use any of those media can find someone to help in private.

Exactly. I see a lot of excuses here to avoid the issue, and not a lot of effort to handle it personally. If it’s really that much of a concern, pick up a phone or other means of communication and handle it. This is not the middle ages, communication is nearly always possible except in extreme cases.



~Liza

 

[CoffeeHound]

Exactly. I see a lot of excuses here to avoid the issue, and not a lot of effort to handle it personally. If it’s really that much of a concern, pick up a phone or other means of communication and handle it. This is not the middle ages, communication is nearly always possible except in extreme cases.



~Liza

For a lot of people, calling a priest is a very intimidating thing to do. I’m sure it’s much worse if you know you’ve done something that the priest will disagree with (like defecting from the Church).

 

[lizaanne]

For a lot of people, calling a priest is a very intimidating thing to do. I’m sure it’s much worse if you know you’ve done something that the priest will disagree with (like defecting from the Church).

It is very intimidating to do a lot of things. But if someone is strong enough and mature enough to walk down the aisle, then they darn well should have what it takes to pick up a phone and talk to a priest. If they can’t do latter, I question their readiness to do the former.

Look - this woman doesn’t even care from her own personal perspective, she’s only trying to find a way to slide through with family and not ruffle feathers. So if being Catholic means absolutely nothing to her, this should be a very simple phone call.

~Liza

 

[masuwerte]

She may prefer to speak with the priest at her geographic parish, face-to-face. Give her a chance to do so, please.

 

[lizaanne]

She may prefer to speak with the priest at her geographic parish, face-to-face. Give her a chance to do so, please.

Then why is she sending someone else to do it for her?

I’m just trying to understand - that’s all.

~Liza

 

[WholeHeart]

She may prefer to speak with the priest at her geographic parish, face-to-face. Give her a chance to do so, please.

Exactly. I wouldn’t trust some random priest I found online… Why should I? And the Catholic church near my home has no information whatsoever online (phone doesn’t work, either; how on earth would I even find a phone number? I’d need to either get it off the internet or ask a relative to give it to me). So, I respectfully asked for help from an older relative who was involved in my infant baptism in the first place, which I would consider appropriate; it’s not someone who is entirely outside the issue.

 

[Flame4]

I’m a bit confused really; I don’t understand why you care about the Church rules if you don’t consider yourself Catholic. So, I’m just going to wish you best of luck, whatever you choose to do. I pray that God will guide you as he pleases. Good luck and God Bless.

 

[Flame4]

And you know, it’s pretty tough to imagine that it would be my Catholic baptism, alone and unaided, which would both send me to Hell and invalidate my marriage… That is the official position, isn’t it? That if I had only been infant baptized in the Presbyterian church instead, with my younger sibling(s), I would be fully Protestant, in incomplete communion with the Catholic Church (hence probably or at least possibly going to Heaven someday), and able to validly marry a protestant in a protestant ceremony. As is it, I’ve “chosen” to separate myself from the truth I “had,” so am headed for Hell anyway, and living in immorality on top of it (with no allowances made for the fact that I had no choice in either joining or leaving the Catholic church). So, what benefit is that baptism that you say is “binding”? Is it not rather a curse? And you seriously wonder why I don’t like the idea?

But if you don’t think the Catholic Church is right, then why are you worried about going to hell? If, as you say the Catholic Church would hinder your relationship with God, then why are you worried about hell? you would be doing the right thing and going to heaven

 

[WholeHeart]

But if you don’t think the Catholic Church is right, then why are you worried about going to hell? If, as you say the Catholic Church would hinder your relationship with God, then why are you worried about hell? you would be doing the right thing and going to heaven

I’m not worried about going to Hell. I’m worried about people I love thinking I’m going to Hell.

 

[Flame4]

I’m not worried about going to Hell. I’m worried about people I love thinking I’m going to Hell.

Oh , I see. Well, do they really know enough about the Catholic faith to know this first of all? And no one is saying you are going to hell, only God can determine that. What you are doing may be wrong, but you should consider talking to a priest…If you are that worried, you will make an effort.

Also consider that they are just worried about you and your soul. As I said, you will have to do what you believe to be right. I have relatives who think my faith is wrong, and friends too. I choose to do what I believe is right despite what they think and how that makes me feel. I don’t really want to say have an invaild marraige (which may be vaild, I don’t know, talk to a priest!) and encourage it, but I’m trying to give an objective view.

My advice:

Talk to a priest. If you choose to have the marraige then have it. And, if people think your going to hell, well then you decide if they are right or wrong. If they are right get on the right track, if they are wrong, ignore it.

 

[Flame4]

If you want to know why baptisim is permanet, then you have to look at it from a view that the Catholic Church is the true Church.

In that case, your baptisim is a gift and am immense grace. In that case, the seal of baptisim is Christ deciding to never let go of you, to always have a spot available for you, if that is what you want. It is God always considering you a member of the family, even if you don’t see yourself as one. To me, it is the open arms that the Father waiting for the Prodigal son.

Consider a parent-child relationship. A rebellious teenager decides to tell their mother, “Iook, I don’t like you, I think your wrong. I no longer consider you my mother, or myself your child. iIam going to do what I want.”

The child leaves and does its own thing. The mother though, loves the son/daughter the whole time and always considers her child her child. Then in a few years, the child decides they were wrong. When (s)he goes back, the mother accpets the child, but lets it know she loved it the whole time. Wouldn’t you, if your child want to know that your mother loved you despite what you said and did and thought? Despite what you believed to be right and wrong? Wouldn’t you want your mother to have though of you as her daughter even if you didn;t feel that way?

 

[Pug]

I’m not worried about going to Hell. I’m worried about people I love thinking I’m going to Hell.

I think that is one of the inevitable crosses most of us bear in this life - concern for someone we love, that we worry they are doing the wrong thing, or that we worry that we ourselves are making them worry about us in turn. At least in my life it seems so unavoidable! I wouldn’t worry that you are making it hard for them by making them worry about you. Sometimes we must make people worry, it seems. Just be gentle with them if they do end up concerned for you. After all, you aren’t sure yet that they’ll be concerned in this situation. For yourself, you must do what is right.

What is right here? I can’t begin to suggest a direction for you. But, I wonder if God isn’t speaking something to you, that you are concerned enough to ask about a religion that isn’t yours. I suggest you continue to look into the theology of marriage. Of course, it is hard for me to not recommend some of the things our last pope wrote on the subject! Some Catholics find his “Wednesday audiences” on the theology of the body hard to read, so I hesitate to recommend them, but I found them comforting and enlightening. If you do want to read them, they are a long series of shortish talks that he gave over more than a year. They are here.

 

[dans0622]

And you know, it’s pretty tough to imagine that it would be my Catholic baptism, alone and unaided, which would both send me to Hell and invalidate my marriage… That is the official position, isn’t it?

Hello WholeHeart,

No, that is not the official position. Baptism has certain results but none of them are equivalent to do sending someone to hell or invalidating marriages. By way of comparison, I would say:

My residence in a particular state of the USA does not invalidate my marriage if I ignore its marriage laws regarding a proper, public form. It is my “ignorance” of the marriage laws that causes invalidity.

Likewise, being a citizen of the USA doesn’t put me in federal prison. It’s whatever I did as a citizen that put me there.

Anyway, “good luck” with your situation. I know others have wisely suggested talking to a priest. More specifically, I would suggest talking to a priest at the Diocese, such as the Judicial Vicar or Chancellor (who might not be a priest, actually). These people should know canon law.

Thanks for your time.
Dan

 

[LilyM]

Exactly. I wouldn’t trust some random priest I found online… Why should I? And the Catholic church near my home has no information whatsoever online (phone doesn’t work, either; how on earth would I even find a phone number? I’d need to either get it off the internet or ask a relative to give it to me). So, I respectfully asked for help from an older relative who was involved in my infant baptism in the first place, which I would consider appropriate; it’s not someone who is entirely outside the issue.

You can call directory assistance, and ask for the phone number of your desired church. They’ll give you the number and/or put you through. You ask to speak to the priest, or if you want you can ask whether he has an email address so that you can communicate with him privately but online.

If it’s important enough to do, it’s important enough to do personally rather than via a deputy.