"Ex-Jesuit" Claims

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I have considered becoming a Jesuit in the future and was looking them up today when I found an article on Wikipedia (great source right?) about someone named Alberto Rivera, who is an ex-Jesuit and knows some secrets about the Church and stuff like that. I didn’t believe it, but I found out about some book called “Secret History of the Jesuits”, and heard of other “converts” like Gerard Bouffard and Robert V. Juline, who make similar claims. I found a link here even claiming all his claims are true and backing it up with other “ex-Jesuits” I’m not very convinced of this but is there anything, preferably recent and neutral, refuting these? Like a book by a Neutral Protestant or something? Thanks.
 
Well, there is a piece about him here on CA which cites both an article in Christianity Today (a major Evangelical magazine) and another one in Crossroads* (which was a kind of “edgy-hip” evangelical magazine before its demise . . .) Basically he was a sensationalist who was “made” by Jack Chick, to whom in turn he gave a cover of “truth” for the salacious rubbish Chick wanted to proclaim about the Church.

*the Crossroads piece is reprinted, at least in part, here.
 
Alberto Rivera was a notorious conman. There is no evidence that he was ever even Catholic, much less that he was ever a Jesuit.
His story (which changes with each telling) was a fictional storyline for a comic book put out by Chick tracts, to defame Catholics. Its pure garbage.
 
The Jesuits are the punching-bag of anti-Catholic wackos - probably because the Order was founded in large measure to oppose the errors of protestantism. Jesuits figure profoundly in most anti-Catholic conspiracy nonsense.

If you are considering a Jesuit vocation then I hope you will help carry the light of St. Ignatius back into this great Order that has, in many ways, abandoned its vocation (but in the opposite direction that “Alberto” would claim - theological apathy instead of fanaticism). Some feel the Jesuits have lost their charism, but I believe there is hope for this Order, founded by one of the most profound Saints of the Church.
 
Actually, Rivera is an exposed fraud. Unfortunately for him, he was exposed by HIS OWN FANS when a few of them, paying close attention to detail as fans typically do, noticed that his story didn’t quite add up. They did some investigating and discovered quite a bit about him. He had written several bad checks, collected money for a charity that never existed, and was married with kids during a large chunk of the time he claimed to be a Jesuit priest. There are housing records, old acquaintances and neighbors, his criminal record, and the grave stones of two of his kids to prove it.

There are a lot of zany stories out there about the Jesuits. Truth be told, its actually a pretty safe bet to take one of those zany stories and just assume the opposite is true.
 
I have considered becoming a Jesuit in the future
It is very true that Jesuits have has much criticism levied against them for several centuries, and as other have said Mr. Rivera is a quack. Yet, despite this, there are many valid criticisms to consider if entering this order. A good friend of mine worked for Ignatius press in San Francisco for several years and explained that a Jesuit priest living across the street was openly in a homosexual relationship. Which of course violated his vows of chastity, obedience, and God’s forbidding homosexual acts.

I have heard that the brightest spot for the Jesuits today (in America at least) is the southern region. A high school classmate of mine is in formation in New Orleans and has had great formation. I’m not an expert on the order, but what I’ve basically heard is - the southern region is most orthodox and the far west and northeast Jesuit communities have the highest % of truly loony religious.
 
Thanks for the stuff on Mr. Rivera and Mr. Chick. But has anyone got anything on the book or the other 2 “ex-Jesuits”?
 
Thanks for the stuff on Mr. Rivera and Mr. Chick. But has anyone got anything on the book or the other 2 “ex-Jesuits”?
I would want to read that book as much as I would want to read “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.” :rolleyes: The fact that it is published by Jack Chick should tell you something about the veracity of the author.
 
Well the book is published by Chick’s publication company. Before that, it came from a Freemason publishing company. That should tell you something right there. But on top of all that, the majority of the sources for the book seem to come ONLY from the Grand Orient of France’s library, a masonic library, which should make one skeptical in the first place, but also since they are found only there, you have to actually go there and they have to let you in (unlikely) to see the sources. Do these sources even exist? Who really knows. And Edmond Paris? Nowhere - not even chick’s website - as far as I can tell claims any sort of credentials for him. By what authority does he even write the book in the first place? None.

The position of a thinking person should always be one of skepticism. They have claims, but provide no evidence. That’s the big issue here. For what reason should we simply believe them? Innocent until proven guilty is a great stance to apply here.

The popular tea set orbiting Jupiter situation is a great illustration of this. Say I claim that there is a tea set orbiting Jupiter. You express your skepticism, to which I respond that you should prove me wrong. But this is where it gets backwards. The burden of proof is actually on me because I made the claim and because it is a positive claim. In theory, you could prove that there is no tea set orbiting Jupiter, but just think of how mind bogglingly difficult that would be.

You first have to launch a rocket to Jupiter with a camera in it to take pictures of the orbits of Jupiter. But it’s not that easy. The tea set is orbiting Jupiter, which means that it’s in motion. So you don’t just need one camera. You need enough cameras to record a picture of every piece of space around Jupiter. That would easily be several million cameras. And even if you get this proof, there are millions of photos to show me to prove it to me. Do you think I’m going to be willing to sift through millions of photos to help you prove me wrong? Of course not. And so even though you’ve gotten the proof, I am unwilling to accept it.

In contrast, since the burden of proof should be on me, if I searched for the evidence, it would be the far simpler task of looking around for the tea set, snapping one photo of it, and planting it down on the table in front of you. This is why the burden of proof is always on the one making the positive claim - because the one making the negative claim has a far more daunting, if not entirely impossible, task of proving their position.

In this situation, with the claims about the Jesuits - these “ex-Jesuits” are the ones making the positive claims. Rivera, for example, claims that the Jesuits created the Inquisition in the 13th century - the positive claim, and the burden of proof lies with him. But see, that’s not how his fans want to play it. They want us to prove otherwise. And sure, we could potentially do what we need to to prove it to them, but that would be to provide for them every single historical document from every place on the planet from the entire range of the Inquisitions to show them no mention of the Jesuits. Less daunting that launching millions of cameras to Jupiter, but still ridiculous. And on top of that, they would need to be willing to look at what would be several million pages of evidence in the first place, which if they were actually willing to do in the first place, we wouldn’t even be in this situation. In contrast, all Rivera needed to do was produce one simple historical document supporting his claim, which he failed to do.

So always remember - the burden of proof is on them. Next time someone presents you with an “ex-Jesuit” or with that book or something similar, just say “prove it”. When I do it, they typically become somewhat indignant and mocking, but if you calmly explain why they are the ones who need to prove it, they’ll typically shut up because they don’t care enough to do the research needed.

So with the other two “ex-Jesuits” - ask for evidence of truth of what they claim. Even ask for evidence that they were ever a Jesuit in the first place. (we know Rivera was not, it could easily be the same with them) Why in the world would we believe the evidenceless claims of these three ex-Jesuits over the claims of several thousand Jesuits to the contrary - who actually have mountains of evidence?
 
. . . Next time someone presents you with an “ex-Jesuit” or with that book or something similar, just say “prove it”. When I do it, they typically become somewhat indignant and mocking, but if you calmly explain why they are the ones who need to prove it, they’ll typically shut up because they don’t care enough to do the research needed.
👍 I mentioned in another thread today that I personally heard a former Jesuit priest, now a vehement anti-Catholic, tell lies about Catholic beliefs because most in his audience wanted and expected to hear the “truth” about that abominable Church. He sought approval for the breaking of his priestly vows by going after an audience only too eager to applaud his desertion of the Faith.
 
I have considered becoming a Jesuit in the future and was looking them up today when I found an article on Wikipedia (great source right?) about someone named Alberto Rivera, who is an ex-Jesuit and knows some secrets about the Church and stuff like that. I didn’t believe it, but I found out about some book called “Secret History of the Jesuits”, and heard of other “converts” like Gerard Bouffard and Robert V. Juline, who make similar claims. I found a link here even claiming all his claims are true and backing it up with other “ex-Jesuits” I’m not very convinced of this but is there anything, preferably recent and neutral, refuting these? Like a book by a Neutral Protestant or something? Thanks.
I know a few former Jesuits here in my country that have only praise for the order they left for the love of a woman. They have never uttered a word of criticism on the Jesuits. One of them continues to work very close with the order in educational programs.

Also, they didn’t leave the Church, they remain devout Catholics. I don’t know the details, but I believe they asked for dispensation from the order to leave and it was granted. I think you can apply to them the Marines motto, Semper Fidelis.

But the order has internal problems. I would recommend the book The Jesuits, by Malachi Martin S.J. In it Father Martin discloses the struggles of the order throughout its history. There is an excerpt of Chapter One of the book at its Amazon.com page, you should check it. Father Martin has been called an anti Catholic, but he was not. He remained faithful to Jesus and the Church until his death.

The order was expelled from several countries and it was also influenced by several Jesuits whose not so conventional ideas are still found today among many of its members (I’ll use you great source too): George Tyrrell (raised an Anglican), who “was expelled from the Jesuit order in 1906 and suspended from the sacraments the following year. He was given extreme unction on his deathbed in 1909, but was denied burial in a Catholic cemetery”; Teilhard de Chardin, who faced “a series of condemnations by certain ecclesiastical officials that would continue until long after Teilhard’s death”; and Pedro Arrupe, whose focus on social justice “led to the development of liberation theology in South America, which caused great conflict within the Society and the Church”.

Many Jesuits throughout the world have been supporters of the Liberation Theology, specially in Third World countries. Some Jesuits have openly said that “Christianity and communism/marxism are the same thing” while at the same time they knew what Lenin said, that “religion is opium for the people”.

On this part of the world some Jesuits are seen as too politicized, too left leaning, too Marxists for a priest. Here you can see the traditional Jesuits and the modern Jesuits, and they keep distance from each other. It seems that if you join the order you’ll find some of this.
 
I have considered becoming a Jesuit in the future and was looking them up today when I found an article on Wikipedia (great source right?) about someone named Alberto Rivera, who is an ex-Jesuit and knows some secrets about the Church and stuff like that. I didn’t believe it, but I found out about some book called “Secret History of the Jesuits”, and heard of other “converts” like Gerard Bouffard and Robert V. Juline, who make similar claims. I found a link here even claiming all his claims are true and backing it up with other “ex-Jesuits” I’m not very convinced of this but is there anything, preferably recent and neutral, refuting these? Like a book by a Neutral Protestant or something? Thanks.
You will find this website very, very interesting.

magisspirituality.org/daily.htm

Blessings,
granny

The quest for spiritual truth needs Catholicism.
 
I don’t know a lot about Jesuits. What would be their core knowledge and areas of training? Would they all know Latin for example? I am thinking if you can idendifly the bare minimum that Jesuits would know in languages, logic, etc., Then you can look for those traits in the writings of those who claims to be an ex-jesuit – if there is no signs of that core knowledge then likely they were never training to become a Jesuit.
 
Last month at one of our ecumenical mens meeting one of the younger brothers had some Catholic run off.
It ended with “do some research on the web about jesuits”.
That i did and have found an oath tabled to American congress that in this day one would rightly find disturbing.
It was dated early 1800s. I work in a Catholic ministry that too is very old, in our early writings great joy was shared in saving people from “protestant evil”, clearly long before Vat 2 docs gave clearer light who G-d is too us.

Any way i needed to serve this young brother so thought better than the one witness on line i should find him a couple that are breathing the same air as we are so as to help him.

I emailed the Jesuit society web site and asked them.

Our bishop is a Jesuit, not common practice.

One day soon after i met the young brother our bishop came to town, i saw him packing his boot as i was leaving, the spirit inspired me to park the car as while he was packing his boot there would be ample time for him to help me help the younger brother.
I asked him if he could spare me ten to fifteen minutes b4 he left town.

I stayed with him for maybe 15 minutes while he packed his boot and shared all the things he had to do this week so he would have not have time. He was kind enough to direct me to two other jesuits in other towns, the first 275kms and the second 75kms.

The following weekend i drove 275kms and met with the man he sent me to.
he was helpful but had not made the final oath.Just before i left i recived and email response from the jesuit society.

The following weekend i drove the 75kms to find that fellow had moved on.

From my chat and the email response i gained the following picture,

Jesuits vowe poverty, chastity and obedience, with not taking positions in the church. three times during their discernment.
The final vowe includes obedience to the pope, hence how we have a Jesuit bishop.

In all my asking i asked if the wording of the vowels was available to others to read explaining i understand if they are not.

This question has been avoided and only what i have shared here is what has been understood by me.

So one month later and some travel i still dont have two clear witness for the brother.

Please pray for him, corey is his name as it was given me.

Blessings to you all especially for your help in prayer, it is much for me alone.
 
Last month at one of our ecumenical mens meeting one of the younger brothers had some Catholic run off.
It ended with “do some research on the web about jesuits”.
That i did and have found an oath tabled to American congress that in this day one would rightly find disturbing.
It was dated early 1800s. I work in a Catholic ministry that too is very old, in our early writings great joy was shared in saving people from “protestant evil”, clearly long before Vat 2 docs gave clearer light who G-d is too us.

Any way i needed to serve this young brother so thought better than the one witness on line i should find him a couple that are breathing the same air as we are so as to help him.

I emailed the Jesuit society web site and asked them.

Our bishop is a Jesuit, not common practice.

One day soon after i met the young brother our bishop came to town, i saw him packing his boot as i was leaving, the spirit inspired me to park the car as while he was packing his boot there would be ample time for him to help me help the younger brother.
I asked him if he could spare me ten to fifteen minutes b4 he left town.

I stayed with him for maybe 15 minutes while he packed his boot and shared all the things he had to do this week so he would have not have time. He was kind enough to direct me to two other jesuits in other towns, the first 275kms and the second 75kms.

The following weekend i drove 275kms and met with the man he sent me to.
he was helpful but had not made the final oath.Just before i left i recived and email response from the jesuit society.

The following weekend i drove the 75kms to find that fellow had moved on.

From my chat and the email response i gained the following picture,

Jesuits vowe poverty, chastity and obedience, with not taking positions in the church. three times during their discernment.
The final vowe includes obedience to the pope, hence how we have a Jesuit bishop.

In all my asking i asked if the wording of the vowels was available to others to read explaining i understand if they are not.

This question has been avoided and only what i have shared here is what has been understood by me.

So one month later and some travel i still dont have two clear witness for the brother.

Please pray for him, corey is his name as it was given me.

Blessings to you all especially for your help in prayer, it is much for me alone.
Steven, the supposed “Jesuit Oath” is not and never has been the oath Jesuits make. That it was included in the collection of the Library of Congress is no proof of its authenticity. This article addresses your concern and should put it to rest:

victorclaveau.com/htm_html/Anti-Catholicism/jesuit_oath_debunked.htm
 
Steven, the supposed “Jesuit Oath” is not and never has been the oath Jesuits make. That it was included in the collection of the Library of Congress is no proof of its authenticity. This article addresses your concern and should put it to rest:

victorclaveau.com/htm_html/Anti-Catholicism/jesuit_oath_debunked.htm
Peace and blessings to you and yours,
I understand one mans address to congress means nothing, IME pentecostal s are served well by two witnesses, the path i was sent on is to humbly serve Corey that he may see gentle light and the stone that weighs upon his heart may fall away. That G-d maybe glorified.

Appreciate the link, i have visited it before but it was not an authoritative of the Jesuit society, as i understood it. I am no scholar.

G-d blessed the groups meeting last night as only three other brothers attended (normally we are around 12) one a pastor and an elder of his community as the problem had arisen in our meetings it was discerned good for discussion.

This has given rise to some other issues for brother Corey, so we can all spend some more time with him and for him in prayer.

I praise and thank G-d for any support in prayer for br Corey and his journey ahead.

May G-d bless and guide you all to be more like the way of Yahooshu (pbwh) My King.
 
During a very unfortunate time for me back in the mid 1990s,
I bought some of the antiCatholic books, including
THE SECRET HISTORY OF THE JESUITS and
THE VATICAN AGAINST EUROPE,
both by Edmond Paris.

What I would say if BE CAREFUL with books like those.
SOME of what you read in those books is true and documented.
But so what? That just proves that there have been bad people
in the Church and in the Jesuits from time to time.
For example, THE VATICAN AGAINST EUROPE talks about
the Ustashi regime, in Catholic Croatia during World War II,
murdering nearly a million Eastern Orthodox Croatians.
And that is true. And the Catholic dictator, Ante Pavelic, was not
even excommunicated for his wicked barbarity. How to answer
such a fact as this? I can’t answer it, even to this day. But that doesn’t
mean that “the Vatican” was behind the creation of the dictatorship, as the book
alleges. Nor does it “prove” that bad behavior is characteristic of, nor intrinsic
to, the Jesuit order.
Be very careful with such books.
They can WRECK your faith. They wrecked mine.
 
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