Ex-Schismatic Priest

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twiztedseraph

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I watched an EWTN special on an ex Charismatic Episcopal Church Priest. He was (apparently) validly ordained through the Apostolic Church of Brazil. But when he came into the Church he layed his vestments on the altar and became a layman. I thought the protocol was to re-educate them and then allow them to minister? Also putting his vestments on the altar, was this a set liturgical practise or an innovation? I’m really curious your help is much appreciated.
 
The decision to allow a formed Episcopal priest to minister in the Catholic Church is evaluated one case at a time. There is no general directive regarding their ministry.

Deacon Ed
 
Deacon Ed:
The decision to allow a formed Episcopal priest to minister in the Catholic Church is evaluated one case at a time. There is no general directive regarding their ministry.

Deacon Ed
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And the bit about his vestments? Also he was validly ordained, wouldn’t this have been a predicament?
 
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twiztedseraph:
And the bit about his vestments? Also he was validly ordained, wouldn’t this have been a predicament?
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A priest recieves their authority via their Bishop. If the priest is granted no authority, he operates as a layman.

He still remains a priest, but cannot wear clerics or vestments.
 
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Brendan:
A priest recieves their authority via their Bishop. If the priest is granted no authority, he operates as a layman.

He still remains a priest, but cannot wear clerics or vestments.
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I know that dear brother, its just that at his being received into the Church he gave his vestments to be put on the altar. Thats what I was asking about, whether it was a one time innovation or a set liturgical practise.
 
The laying of one’s vestments on the altar is an ancient sign of setting aside one’s public ministry as a cleric (bishop, priest or deacon).

Deacon Ed
 
Deacon Ed:
The laying of one’s vestments on the altar is an ancient sign of setting aside one’s public ministry as a cleric (bishop, priest or deacon).

Deacon Ed
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While I completely submit to any of the Church’s decisions, I just feel sorry for this guy. 😦 Oh well I’m sure there was a very good reason.
 
I am unfamiliar with the Apostolic Church of Brazil, but this man might have needed conditional re-ordination to work as a priest unless the apostolic succession and intent of his ordaining prelate was very clear.
 
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Fortiterinre:
I am unfamiliar with the Apostolic Church of Brazil, but this man might have needed conditional re-ordination to work as a priest unless the apostolic succession and intent of his ordaining prelate was very clear.
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The Apostolic Church in Brazil has valid Holy Orders, his ordaining prelate wanted him to be a priest as he was a founder of the denomination. So that leaves that out. But the Church in her wisdom may have felt that a man with such a family and an unruly past (he did after all help set up his own church) wouldn’t be a very good model for a priest. WHo knows, lets just trust the hierarchy.
 
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twiztedseraph:
The Apostolic Church in Brazil has valid Holy Orders, his ordaining prelate wanted him to be a priest as he was a founder of the denomination. So that leaves that out. But the Church in her wisdom may have felt that a man with such a family and an unruly past (he did after all help set up his own church) wouldn’t be a very good model for a priest. WHo knows, lets just trust the hierarchy.
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While the Church does accept ex-protestant ministers and makes them priests, they are dealt with on a case by case basis as was stated earlier.

Something to keep in mind though. Any Catholic who leaves the Church and is Ordained in another Church, such as an Orthodox Church or the PNCC or any other protestant or any other group that has valid apostolic succession, will be denied working as clergy in the Catholic Church most of the time, if not all of the time.

This has to go with the fact that they actually left to be ordained.

I now this might not seem fair but no one has a right to be ordained. It is the Church that calls.
 
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ByzCath:
While the Church does accept ex-protestant ministers and makes them priests, they are dealt with on a case by case basis as was stated earlier.

Something to keep in mind though. Any Catholic who leaves the Church and is Ordained in another Church, such as an Orthodox Church or the PNCC or any other protestant or any other group that has valid apostolic succession, will be denied working as clergy in the Catholic Church most of the time, if not all of the time.

This has to go with the fact that they actually left to be ordained.

I now this might not seem fair but no one has a right to be ordained. It is the Church that calls.
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I can agree with that, infact if its official Church teaching, I submit to that.
 
One of the Friars at my Church was an Anglican Vicar for 20yrs before converting to Catholocism and he had to go through all the formation again to be ordained a Catholic Priest.
 
An Anglican " minister " is not a priest. He has to be Ordained. An Orthodox priest is a “priest”. That woud be a much diferent situation .
 
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twiztedseraph:
The Apostolic Church in Brazil has valid Holy Orders, his ordaining prelate wanted him to be a priest as he was a founder of the denomination. So that leaves that out. But the Church in her wisdom may have felt that a man with such a family and an unruly past (he did after all help set up his own church) wouldn’t be a very good model for a priest. WHo knows, lets just trust the hierarchy.
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I did a thesis on topics like this over ten years ago, and even now it is still hard to trace things like apostolic succession and sacramental validity. If he was born Catholic and became an apostate to receive orders in the Charismatic Episcopalian Church, his apostacy is considered an “imediment to ordination” and may be why he was not reconciled into holy orders as a returning Catholic. If the Brazilian Church does in fact have apostolic succession, but ordained this man as an Episcopalian priest using an Anglican rite or accepting the 39 Articles, then his ordination is almost certainly invalid, because at least 2 of the 39 Articles are virtual disclaimers that the ordination is NOT intending to do what the Catholic Church does in ordination or the sacraments. Finally, and I mean no disprespect, but I am familiar with some of these start-your-own-denomination autocephalous outfits, and while some are sincere others are quite unbalanced and would not be considered for Catholic orders.
 
finally, i read through a thread that discussed, debated and without threatening tones or presumptions…Bravo!

I am so proud of you guys!
 
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TheRam:
finally, i read through a thread that discussed, debated and without threatening tones or presumptions…Bravo!

I am so proud of you guys!
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😃 Thank you! One of the autocephalous trends has been for Episcopalian genre priests to seek ordination through Orthodox or otherwise sacramentally valid apostolic succession, and it could take the whole forum locked in a room days to figure out the “valid” and “invalid” elements!
 
Fortiterinre said:
😃 Thank you! One of the autocephalous trends has been for Episcopalian genre priests to seek ordination through Orthodox or otherwise sacramentally valid apostolic succession, and it could take the whole forum locked in a room days to figure out the “valid” and “invalid” elements!
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Hmmm…was that a thesorus you used for those sentences? 😃

Point being, it is not in the task at hand, but how one does it. You guys on this thread had not a single harsh word. The topic was a bit over my head, but the mannorisms were so…Adult! Christian, not barbaric…I have been here since well earlier than it says, as it is my second name here and this was so impressively calm…Bravo again!

:clapping:

Allana
 
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Fortiterinre:
I did a thesis on topics like this over ten years ago, and even now it is still hard to trace things like apostolic succession and sacramental validity. If he was born Catholic and became an apostate to receive orders in the Charismatic Episcopalian Church, his apostacy is considered an “imediment to ordination” and may be why he was not reconciled into holy orders as a returning Catholic. If the Brazilian Church does in fact have apostolic succession, but ordained this man as an Episcopalian priest using an Anglican rite or accepting the 39 Articles, then his ordination is almost certainly invalid, because at least 2 of the 39 Articles are virtual disclaimers that the ordination is NOT intending to do what the Catholic Church does in ordination or the sacraments. Finally, and I mean no disprespect, but I am familiar with some of these start-your-own-denomination autocephalous outfits, and while some are sincere others are quite unbalanced and would not be considered for Catholic orders.
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  1. One may question many things about my character, however never, ever, ever, question my loyalty to Rome.
That aside, this guy was one of a founding group of a new denomination, they chose the name episcopal as it meant they were governed by Bishops. Aside from this they are unfortunately (because it means they have valid sacraments) they are quite Catholic. He has nothing to do with the 39 articles or Anglicanism. I am quite happy that he became Catholic, I was just wondering why he wasn’t accepted as a Priest as usually Anglicans are accepted (though they have to be re-educated and re-ordained) to be Priests. Whatever the reason I am sure it is good, mother Church has our interests at hand.
 
ByzCath

It isn’t proper to lump the canonical Orthodox into the same category as the protestants. Not fair at all.
 
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mgy100:
ByzCath

It isn’t proper to lump the canonical Orthodox into the same category as the protestants. Not fair at all.
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I agree, though there are profound theological differences with the orthodox, they are very, very, very, close to the fulness of truth. In my book Protestants are out right heretics. :eek: Can I say that?

Well, they’re the descendants of out right heretics, now they’re pious but misguided Christians.
 
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