Ex-Seminarians

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Not sure where to post this question so thought this was best fit.

Our parish has over the past 40-years seen around 10 parishioners go to train for the priesthood and diaconate. But with the exception of only four, the rest not only dropped out, but dropped right out of the Church. To the best of my knowledge, none have ever returned to the faith.

So my question is: what is it they learn while training for ordination that spooks them so much they leave the Church completely?

I once asked a dear PP friend this question. He replied by pointing out that ‘little knowldge is a good thing’, whereas the deeper you go into theology, the more tenuous things can become. But that still leaves so many questions unanswered. Any ideas anyone?

Blessings and peace
 
My son dropped out of a seminary three years ago. He has not left the Church.

However, from what I know of that seminary (I do not know anything about the seminary in your diocese), it could be that it is not a good seminary and instead of teaching in line with the Catholic faith, teaches at least some things that are contrary to the faith.

My son told me that if he had stayed he could well have lost his faith.
 
Joan_M said:
My son dropped out of a seminary three years ago. He has not left the Church.

However, from what I know of that seminary (I do not know anything about the seminary in your diocese), it could be that it is not a good seminary and instead of teaching in line with the Catholic faith, teaches at least some things that are contrary to the faith.

My son told me that if he had stayed he could well have lost his faith.
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Sometimes the teachings are in line but the methods leave the men feeling isolated etc. A young priest I know hates having to visit the seminary for anything because of this kind of thing and I have heard older priests speak of not being able to walk with the same person more than a certain number of times - thus preventing supportive relationships within the formation period.

It may even be worse within orders per a friend of mine who is a Franciscan.
 
This one I can answer first hand.

I think there are diverse reasons for seminarians to leave - as diverse as the seminarians themselves. That being said my experience taught me this:
  1. Young men going into the seminary often go with a very sincere view of the church and longing to be a priest. However, within the “institution,” at its very core, it becomes clear just how human the institution is. It can sidetrack one, or even outright contradict the life-view the person had going in. Its not necessarily an issue of conservative/ progressive, faithful teaching/ not faithful teaching - its more fundamental. One can experience it in many ways. For example, I was simply surpirsed by just how nasty people could be to oneanother when they all claimed to be Christians.
  2. For older men its very difficult to get through the seminary after having one’s own life for a number of years. The idea of priesthood might be perfectly founded but they just can’t get through the institution to get there. Too many hoops to jump - and when you’re older there’s just less interest in puting energy into situation you don’t see the point of.
 
two relatives went through this, one who has since returned to the Church after an absence of almost 30 years, says it was because of the rapid changes in Mass and everything else that happened during his tenure (mid 60s) and the fact that there seemed to be a subculture or in-crowd to which he had no entree. The second cited problems that Michael Rose has detailed in his (lest than stellar journalisticlaly) book. his seminary was closed in the 90s and only recently reopened after a complete housecleaning.

it so happens that in the last few years I have a chance to work and study with a number of seminarians from around the country, and surprisingly most have had several tries before finding a school that was a good fit. the older candidates seem to have more problem with rules and regs, and almost universal complaint is lack of good spiritual direction. I should add that I am not referring to any seminarians from my own diocese.
 
I left the Major Seminary in 1964 after being in for eight years. I left because I wanted a family of my own. Not because of any reason in the seminary. I left in May of '64, met my wife to be in October, got engaged in November and married February of 1965. She was a convert to Catholicism in April of '64. I never would have thought of going with anyone who was non-Catholic. That was 43 years ago,. We now have 5 children and 13 grandchildren. I know I have made the correct decision. I have no regrets for having been in the seminary for 8 years. But more importantly none for having left. I have been a deacon for 17 years now, retired from my civilian job since 2001 and very active in the diaconate. I am joyfully fulfilled with my station in life.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
thus preventing supportive relationships within the formation period

They are called “particular friendships”–a code word for you-know-what.
 
My brother, the oldest who also was an altar boy for a very strong faithful priest went to seminary. He went very faithful to the Church. After that Priest moved on, we have had a host of others but none as faithful and no more vocations, since.

My brother was too faithful, here in California they sometimes do not like that, and sent him to have his faith updated/destroyed. Young men go very faithful and sometimes see just how much some people really don’t believe in Christ and submision to His Church. They go with an open heart to follow Christ and they see a huge amount of unfaithfulness and it can break your heart, and break these young men.
My brother left the seminary to find a faithful one, he went on to another but eventually left.
It took him a bit to recover, but now is a faithful Catholic who is married with a family.
Not all men end up in such a good spiritual situation.

In Christ
Scylla
 
bpbasilphx said:
thus preventing supportive relationships within the formation period

They are called “particular friendships”–a code word for you-know-what.
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Most men that I know have supportive friends, usually ones that they can confide in and go to when they need someone to support them. Does that mean most men are gay (which is what you are implying by the word particular friendships, which the OP did not use). Up until fairly recently men in the seminary were discouraged from developing close friendships and this led to feelings of isolation. Thank God things have changed. Most of the younger priests I know have good and very close friends who were classmates or are priests. Rectories can be very lonley places and if they do not have good supportive friends, it can be very taxing on a priest and even detrimental to his own mental and spiritual well being.
 
Joannm said:
Most men that I know have supportive friends, usually ones that they can confide in and go to when they need someone to support them. Does that mean most men are gay (which is what you are implying by the word particular friendships, which the OP did not use). Up until fairly recently men in the seminary were discouraged from developing close friendships and this led to feelings of isolation. Thank God things have changed. Most of the younger priests I know have good and very close friends who were classmates or are priests. Rectories can be very lonley places and if they do not have good supportive friends, it can be very taxing on a priest and even detrimental to his own mental and spiritual well being.
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The OP may not have used the term ‘particular friendships’ but it was the term used in the seminary & in the convent where it was thought that close friendships (not putting today’s spin on this) were wrong because Christians are to love everyone equally based on the simple fact that Christ dwells in all of us. In partnered activities the partner was often switched so that they wouldn’t develop a liking for one partner more than for another. While the poster implies a modern connotation to the term that was not the reason for forbidding particular friendships.
 
Joannm said:
Most men that I know have supportive friends, usually ones that they can confide in and go to when they need someone to support them. Does that mean most men are gay (which is what you are implying by the word particular friendships, which the OP did not use). Up until fairly recently men in the seminary were discouraged from developing close friendships and this led to feelings of isolation. Thank God things have changed. Most of the younger priests I know have good and very close friends who were classmates or are priests. Rectories can be very lonley places and if they do not have good supportive friends, it can be very taxing on a priest and even detrimental to his own mental and spiritual well being.
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Thankyou. It certainly was not my intention to suggest/imply such relationships which if they occur, am sure only happens in a small minority of cases.

In my enquiry I have not included those dishonest [and often un-Chritian] men who gain entry to seminary for dishonerable and un-Christian reasons: peodophiles to gain access to children [boy how much have they cost us], politically motivated [agents from former Soviet Russia in an attempt to destroy from within]. Others whose sole intention is to subvert traditional Catholic teaching. My reference here is of those honest men who have made a personal commitment to 'give their lives to Christ in the proclamation of the Gospel and ministering the Scraments of the Church. Thank you for your replies. I have a better grasp of the situation now.

Blessings and peace
 
I had a ten year absence from the Church after leaving seminary.

I allowed myself to despair and have doubts based on the low morale whe had where I attended. It was also exceedingly difficult to go from being “the seminarian” who would be home every so often for a weekend visit to (at least in my mind at the time, I now see my fears were unfounded) “The guy who couldn’t hack it and washed out”.

The one other gent in the history of our parish who went to seminary left the sem and the church altogether for a quarter of a century. 10 years ago he returned, two years ago he was ordained a deacon.
 
I went to the seminary also. I should have stayed. But something happened that really cut my heart and I felt scandalized over someone elses sinful ways. I was embarrassed and had not parents to turn to for support and advice. I had always maintained a decent spiritual relationship that seemed to always endure the most difficult of times.

I too lost my identity of being the local seminarian parishoners were so proud of when I visited home. It was really a painful experience. The scandel nearly cost me my faith in God altogether. Though I stuck it out I sort of dropped to a near cafateria style Catholic with some of the things I engaged in my youth. It was related to “undo” the scandal I felt. I was hurt and still running. My girlfriend that I had found…forced to work… dropped me and again my heart realized I should have never left the seminary… I knew deep down inside that I always wanted to be a priest…a real servant sacrificing it all. Later I joined the military and decided to return to the seminary again. I was struggling from financial hardship and had wiped it clean so to speak. I didn’t think the Church would have accepted me back then so I joined the military for 4 years instead of the shorter tour. While I was stationed stateside I ran into a soldier who ultimately introduced me to my future wife who along with her very active church family proselytized me into a split moment of doubting my Catholic faith or at least whether my infant baptism was valid. The fed me poisoned truth after truth along with some misunderstood beleifs. But it was the hard truths that caused me to fall along with the fact of my own experiences while behind the curtain that help cause me to fall.

More seminarians should be required exposure to lots of apologetics and clearly taught some very basic Catholic beliefs to the point that they see that priests do really believe this stuff. Thankfully, I accidentally learned about the ancient church fathers along with my wife and returned Home to the Catholic Church along with my little Protestant family that are all Catholic now. I am discerning the diaconate if the bishop will take me. I’m still young enough to give more of my life. And hopefully my wife will outlive me because I’d feel like nothing without her, even though I know I’d immediately work towards the priesthood once the door opened again.

Being a priest is mostly about the sacraments. I’ve recently contacted one of my closest friends from the seminary that was a few years older than me. My heart is filled with joy to see such a good guy become such a good priest. So I spend most of my time learning and praying for priests. I pray constantly for strong vocations not only to the priesthood but the relious life. I really would like to see priests required to take a vow of poverty so that they can separate themselves better from this life. Part of poverty also includes not getting too close to people. It helps one become more in tuned with the Holy Spirit. A good friend can become like a good spouse, a distraction. So there is a rational reason behind it.

But after my experience I really would like to see the Catholic Church release at least for some the discipline of not allowing already married men to the priesthood. I believe it would be a healthy thing for the Church. Married deacons is not enough. But I am obedient and once I am accepted to the diaconate I would obey and not speak of such things so as not to cause confusion and an appearance of disunity with the bishop. I will support whatever my bishop expects from us.

The church needs strong faithful married men too. Men who will sacrifice for their families to the point of even losing jobs to save their marriage and family life. We need men to become Knights and enter ministries within the realm of the laity’s grasp. We need men, and women, but more men to be there for our priests and bishops throughout the world. We need men that will not allow himself to be tempted because he does not “train” his eyes to avoid the tempatations around him. Men that will put their children and wives before the big game. We need "E-5Men. Ephesians 5.

I missed my original vocation by fear and then pride. We need to support young men to seek out a vocation to the priesthood. Maybe even provide scholarships to men and women that even appear to be sincere about thinking about a vocation. Just an idea.
 
Our parish had it’s first seminarian last summer and have another one reporting for duty this summer. Everyone just loved this fellow and there were tears when he had to go back to the seminary. They felt this fellow was part of our parish family and were very supportive of him. I think this puts a lot a pressure on the seminarian and if he feels that he has not been called to this vocation later on, he will feel he is letting us all down. I think that pressure can cause depression and maybe even cause someone to leave the church.
 
plato3 said:
Our parish had it’s first seminarian last summer and have another one reporting for duty this summer. Everyone just loved this fellow and there were tears when he had to go back to the seminary. They felt this fellow was part of our parish family and were very supportive of him. I think this puts a lot a pressure on the seminarian and if he feels that he has not been called to this vocation later on, he will feel he is letting us all down. I think that pressure can cause depression and maybe even cause someone to leave the church.
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You are very correct in your observations. When I left the seminary, I was three years away from ordination. This was after being in the seminary for 8 years. It was and remains the most difficult decision I have ever made in my life. When I left, I requested a years leave of absence from my bishop, a saint of a man. He understandingly granted my leave of absence. I requested that leave of absence, knowing that I would not go back, but simply could not say I quit. I left my home state and came to Texas, so I could make that determination without any pressure or influence. That was in 1964. I know that I made the correct decision. I have no regrets for having been in the seminary, but more importantly, no regrets for having left. I pray for those in formation in the seminary as I know the turmoil that most will have if they leave. I pray for those ordained that they be good, holy and Spirit filled priests, who will lead the faithful ever closer to their true goal. Eternity with God in heaven.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
So I spend most of my time learning and praying for priests. I pray constantly for strong vocations not only to the priesthood but the relious life. I really would like to see priests required to take a vow of poverty so that they can separate themselves better from this life. Part of poverty also includes not getting too close to people. It helps one become more in tuned with the Holy Spirit. A good friend can become like a good spouse, a distraction. So there is a rational reason behind it.
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Very sensible remark.
 
Deacon_Ed_B said:
You are very correct in your observations. When I left the seminary, I was three years away from ordination. This was after being in the seminary for 8 years. It was and remains the most difficult decision I have ever made in my life. When I left, I requested a years leave of absence from my bishop, a saint of a man. He understandingly granted my leave of absence. I requested that leave of absence, knowing that I would not go back, but simply could not say I quit. I left my home state and came to Texas, so I could make that determination without any pressure or influence. That was in 1964. I know that I made the correct decision. I have no regrets for having been in the seminary, but more importantly, no regrets for having left. I pray for those in formation in the seminary as I know the turmoil that most will have if they leave. I pray for those ordained that they be good, holy and Spirit filled priests, who will lead the faithful ever closer to their true goal. Eternity with God in heaven.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
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Thanks for sharing that.
God bless
Deacon Tony
 
There is indeed this feeling when you leave the seminary, that you have “washed out” and “couldn’t cut the ol’ mustard,” and you feel that the word “LOSER” has been branded onto your forehead.

What is even worse is when you have firm reasons for leaving the seminary (mine was the “Goodbye, Good Men” experience), yet there are the stares, the snickering, and the whispers behind your back. You feel that God didn’t call you after all, or worse, God has rejected you. So you leave the church and are out for many years, as I was.

Thanks be to God, and also to my wonderful wife, that I have returned to the faith. I am starting my diocese’s deacon formation program, and I get the impression that God isn’t done with me just yet!
 
I spent 4 years in the seminary (graduated in '96 from a college seminary), but didn’t go on to Theology.

For years I was very active in my parish, I even met my wife in the parish choir. I taught CCD, Confirmation prep, played guitar, etc.

What shook me most was that many of the seminarians seemed to be more interested in telling others what to do. For them, the priesthood was about power. Power over people and their relationship with the Divine. I saw thousands of little actions by priests, bishops, monks, and seminarians that were attempts to establish dominance over others - both ordained and lay.

So I decided that I didn’t want to be part of a system that did that to others.

But my loss of faith would not be until years later.
 
mozier said:
Thanks be to God, and also to my wonderful wife, that I have returned to the faith. I am starting my diocese’s deacon formation program, and I get the impression that God isn’t done with me just yet!
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You will be in my prayers for your formation process. It is 5 years in my Archdiocese. What is it in yours.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
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