Exactly what is Deism?

[JamesTheJust]

I look at this way. Christianity took thousands of years and much bloodshed. The modern Olympic games took a little over a hundred and much less bloodshed (Munich) and is known and respected (pretty much universally) around the world. It reached more people in a far shorter amount of time, as evidenced by the television numbers. I’m sorry you think the Olympics are vapid, I ( and most of the world as well) think you are missing out.

Actually, Christianity was the state religion of the largest empire in world history (rivaled only, perhaps, by the Mongols) within a little over 300 years after its beginning. It continued to spread at exponentially increasing rates for about seven centuries, eventually stabilizing its grip upon the majority of the world’s civilizations. Of course, with the rise of secularism and atheism/agnosticism roughly another 700 years later, its hold on the world diminished, but I don’t suppose you’d argue that the modern Olympics will remain as popular as they are today for 1700+ years.

Either way, though, I find the comparison of Christianity with the Olympics quite odd.

 

[Aloysium]

Panem et Circenses

 

[Roscoe_Turner]

Actually, Christianity was the state religion of the largest empire in world history (rivaled only, perhaps, by the Mongols) within a little over 300 years after its beginning. It continued to spread at exponentially increasing rates for about seven centuries, eventually stabilizing its grip upon the majority of the world’s civilizations. Of course, with the rise of secularism and atheism/agnosticism roughly another 700 years later, its hold on the world diminished, but I don’t suppose you’d argue that the modern Olympics will remain as popular as they are today for 1700+ years.

Either way, though, I find the comparison of Christianity with the Olympics quite odd.

The numbers of the Olympics are larger.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Empire#Geography_and_demography

Recent demographic studies have argued for a population peak ranging from 70 million to more than 100 million.

The Olympics reached 9x that in a day. It’s pretty efficient.

 

[JamesTheJust]

The numbers of the Olympics are larger.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Empire#Geography_and_demography

Recent demographic studies have argued for a population peak ranging from 70 million to more than 100 million.

The Olympics reached 9x that in a day. It’s pretty efficient.

You have to put that in context:
vaughns-1-pagers.com/history/world-population-growth.htm

Back then, 100 million people was 1/3-1/2 of the world’s population. The Olympics, even with a very generous estimate of their audience, only reached 1/8-1/7 of the world.

Besides, the billions of people who have been impacted by Christianity throughout history dwarfs both of those numbers.

 

[Roscoe_Turner]

You have to put that in context:
vaughns-1-pagers.com/history/world-population-growth.htm

Back then, 100 million people was 1/3-1/2 of the world’s population. The Olympics, even with a very generous estimate of their audience, only reached 1/8-1/7 of the world.

Besides, the billions of people who have been impacted by Christianity throughout history dwarfs both of those numbers.

The T.V. viewers don’t reflect the only ones reached by the olympics. That was one day. The olympics have been going on for over one hundred years.

Also just because it was the state religion doesn’t mean everyone practiced it. It just means it was sanctioned.

 

[oldcelt]

Naturally, several human beings enter the conversation and muck up a very simple belief system. No wonder this is the fastest growing belief system in the world.People are tired of other people adding to what is a rather basic notion: There are currently gaps in human understanding that point to a type of deity very early in the creation process,

Beyond that is one conjecture after another, mystery upon mystery and contradiction upon contradiction. My God (unproven) is benevolent, causes nor permits suffering here on earth and is the head of no man made religion. But now this thread is in to causality, Aristotelian, Olympics etc., etc, none of which is pertinent to the system of Deism.

Perhaps it would be best to turn this type of attention to a belief system that claims many things. In Deism, if treated properly, you should run out of argument room very quickly, as it has no bureaucracy, no penalties for non-belief and no disrespect for other beliefs. It only helps to explain the basics of our existence…nothing more.

John

 

[belorg]

You have yet to prove this.

Where else would he have gotten his theology? Family tradition, perhaps? Then he would have believed in Zeus

While he often applied philosophy to his theology, he didn’t mix them. That doesn’t work.

Indeed, it doesn’t, and that’s why part of his philosophy was flawed.

He didn’t, though. As others have pointed out, your understanding of causality and the Unmoved Mover is flawed.

According to those who, like Aquinas, mix philospohy and theology.

 

[belorg]

I believe that God can create non-physical beings.

That’s why your claim and Tony’s are not the same. Obviously the laws of causality apply to non-physical beings as well, so, even if they didn’t apply to God, Tony is wrong.

 

[JamesTheJust]

The T.V. viewers don’t reflect the only ones reached by the olympics. That was one day. The olympics have been going on for over one hundred years.

I say again, the billions of people who have been impacted by Christianity throughout history dwarfs both of those numbers.

Also just because it was the state religion doesn’t mean everyone practiced it. It just means it was sanctioned.

What? No, state religion means that it was held forcefully by the state. If a non-Christian was discovered, he would be pressured under possibly fatal penalties to convert.

 

[Roscoe_Turner]

I say again, the billions of people who have been impacted by Christianity throughout history dwarfs both of those numbers.

What? No, state religion means that it was held forcefully by the state. If a non-Christian was discovered, he would be pressured under possibly fatal penalties to convert.

Again we are talking over 100 years vs Thousands. Modern communication is better at spreading a message. Even McDonalds has more influence in the world.

A survey by Sponsorship Research International found that 88 percent could identify the arches and only 54 percent could name the Christian cross, according to Fast Food Nation.

Read more: businessinsider.com/amazing-facts-mcdonalds-2010-12?op=1#ixzz2rK9egL4p

The fact that it was the state religion doesn’t mean that people weren’t converts in name only. Also people don’t have to be converted to the Olympics or McDonald’s by the threat of force. People activlyl seek them out.

 

[tonyrey]

That’s why your claim and Tony’s are not the same. Obviously the laws of causality apply to non-physical beings as well, so, even if they didn’t apply to God, Tony is wrong.

1. The power of self-determination implies that we are not subject to any laws which compel us to make our decisions.
2. The **choice **is yours: are you compelled to make **your **decisions or not?
3. If you are then neither “your” choices nor “your” decisions are yours. They just happen to be associated with you. To put it bluntly, we would all be just impotent cogs in an immense machine if “your” hypothesis were true.

 

[tonyrey]

Naturally, several human beings enter the conversation and muck up a very simple belief system. No wonder this is the fastest growing belief system in the world.People are tired of other people adding to what is a rather basic notion: There are currently gaps in human understanding that point to a type of deity very early in the creation process,

Beyond that is one conjecture after another, mystery upon mystery and contradiction upon contradiction. My God (unproven) is benevolent, causes nor permits suffering here on earth and is the head of no man made religion. But now this thread is in to causality, Aristotelian, Olympics etc., etc, none of which is pertinent to the system of Deism.

Perhaps it would be best to turn this type of attention to a belief system that claims many things. In Deism, if treated properly, you should run out of argument room very quickly, as it has no bureaucracy, no penalties for non-belief and no disrespect for other beliefs. It only helps to explain the basics of our existence…nothing more.

John

What evidence is there that the God of the deists even exists?

 

[oldcelt]

What evidence is there that the God of the deists even exists?

The same as any of the Gods- None.

 

[JamesTheJust]

Where else would he have gotten his theology? Family tradition, perhaps? Then he would have believed in Zeus.

Probably from his personal experience or reasoning. But not his philosophy.

Indeed, it doesn’t, and that’s why part of his philosophy was flawed.

I meant that mixing theology and philosophy doesn’t work. You also have yet to prove the existence flaws in the Quinque viæ.

According to those who, like Aquinas, mix philospohy and theology.

We apply them to each other. We don’t mix them.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

I look at this way. Christianity took thousands of years and much bloodshed. The modern Olympic games took a little over a hundred and much less bloodshed (Munich) and is known and respected (pretty much universally) around the world. It reached more people in a far shorter amount of time, as evidenced by the television numbers.** I’m sorry you think the Olympics are vapid, I ( and most of the world as well) think you are missing out.**

You really need to pay attyention to what is said. I did not say the Olypics are vapid. I said the opening and closing ceremonies, which you heralded as so widely watched, are vapid events by comparison with how deeply impacted Christians are by the teachings of Christ through the Bible and the Church. I watch the Olympics, so I’m not missing out on anything. But the notion that the Olympics provide a daily year-round guiding light in the lives of billions of people is flat out false. That’s all I will say on this topic.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

What evidence is there that the God of the deists even exists?

Virtually none. That a creator God would create a universe and then turn his back on it makes no sense whatever.

Even Greek mythology, for all its flights of fancy, makes more sense.

 

[tomarin]

Virtually none. That a creator God would create a universe and then turn his back on it makes no sense whatever.

Even Greek mythology, for all its flights of fancy, makes more sense.

I’m not sure I agree with you. Why does it make no sense? Maybe he’s gone to another dimension to create new worlds. We’re not supposed to understand God’s ways, anyways.

I would say that I don’t find much comfort in the idea that God has abandoned our universe. But I can see its appeal to skeptical minds.

 

[belorg]

1. The power of self-determination implies that we are not subject to any laws which compel us to make our decisions.
2. The **choice **is yours: are you compelled to make **your **decisions or not?

I am “compelled” by the way I am to make my. Or: the laws that make me what I am determine what decisons I will make.
That’s why I call them my decisions

1. If you are then neither “your” choices nor “your” decisions are yours. They just happen to be associated with you. To put it bluntly, we would all be just impotent cogs in an immense machine if “your” hypothesis were true.

On the contrary, if we are not subject to any laws then our decisions are simply random and we would be far worse of.
Anyway, the truth of something does not depend on whether we like it or not.

And, Tony, I think you are replying in a wrong thread, as this has nothing to do with deism.

 

[Roscoe_Turner]

You really need to pay attyention to what is said. I did not say the Olypics are vapid. I said the opening and closing ceremonies, which you heralded as so widely watched, are vapid events by comparison with how deeply impacted Christians are by the teachings of Christ through the Bible and the Church. I watch the Olympics, so I’m not missing out on anything. But the notion that the Olympics provide a daily year-round guiding light in the lives of billions of people is flat out false. That’s all I will say on this topic.

I am responding to Tony’s statement. I’m not claiming that the Olympics are an alternative to Christianity. Just that it reaches more people more quickly with more reception.

To believe the mass media are a more effective means of communication than the Incarnation is absurd.

More people are reached in one day by mass media than hundreds of years after the incarnation. Communication is easier than it was then. Less effort more results.

 

[Roscoe_Turner]

Virtually none. That a creator God would create a universe and then turn his back on it makes no sense whatever.

Even Greek mythology, for all its flights of fancy, makes more sense.

It makes no sense for a loving personified god, but as a non-personified god it does. The tide isn’t concerned it makes a sandbar. It’s simply an emergent effect.