Exalting Mary?

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TristanCross

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I was watching the Catholic Channel (ETWN), and a Mass was on. Behind the alter, I saw something incredibly disturbing in my own eyes. I saw a picture of Mary above a picture of Christ. Mary was the prime focus. This honestly made my blood boil. It got me hot.

Why was her picture above the Lord’s? Why is Jesus under the feet of a creature who doesn’t even compare to Christ? :confused:
 
Was that the regular EWTN Mass? I’ve never paid much attention to the scenery, but I’ve never noticed that picture while viewing.
 
I’m not sure. The show is called: “More Reflections With Father Leo Cliffard”
 
Could it perhaps be symbolic of how Christ was born of Mary?

I’m not sure I understand the problem… so long as the crucifix was above the altar, it doesn’t seem like it could be implied that Mary was greater to or equal to Christ.
 
The regular EWTN Mass is called ‘Daily Mass’ and is very good from the times I’ve watched it, though I don’t view it regularly. I can understand where you’re coming from, but as the above poster said, so long as the crucifix was where it should be…
If all else fails, you could maybe try and write EWTN?
 
I’ll record the show and take a picture of it tomorrow at 3:15 PM (USA Eastern)
 
Pictures aren’t necessary behind the Altar. They just help to beautify the Church and give focus. For example, a picture of Mary would be a reminder of how Christians ought to participate during the Mass. Or, a picture of Pope John Paul II would be a reminder to follow his example in following Jesus. But so long as there was a Crucifix above the Altar, it is fine.
 
In the Tabernacle and at Mass upon the Altar, Christ is there and is adored.

We kneel infront of His Presence and genuflect…we don’t do that to a picture of our Blessed Mother.
 
TristanCross said:
I was watching the Catholic Channel (ETWN), and a Mass was on. Behind the alter, I saw something incredibly disturbing in my own eyes. I saw a picture of Mary above a picture of Christ. Mary was the prime focus. This honestly made my blood boil. It got me hot.

Why was her picture above the Lord’s? Why is Jesus under the feet of a creature who doesn’t even compare to Christ? :confused:
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We have to be careful with these kinds of arguments because they can lead to silly conclusions. I once visited the Cathedral of Our Lady of Guadalupe in Dallas and they have a huge image of Guadalupe above the altar with only a small crucifix in the sanctuary. Does this mean they were glorifying Mary above Christ? No, of course not. The church was dedicated in honor of the Mother of God and so her image is prominantly displayed. In many Orthodox churches there is a huge, imposing icon of the Mother of God painted on the dome. In her lap is the child Jesus. So, because Mary is bigger than Jesus, does that mean that she is exalted above Him? Of course not, and that would be a silly thing to accuse the Orthodox of but believe it or not I’ve heard that argument from protestants before. Many churches dedicated in honor of Mary may have her images prominantly displayed but every single day the worship that is offered is the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Offered in adoration and praise of the Most Holy Trinity. Mary leads us to Jesus. When we see an image of her we need to remind ourselves that it’s like looking at a mirror that reflects the image and glory of Jesus Christ.
 
In many Orthodox churches there is a huge, imposing icon of the Mother of God painted on the dome. In her lap is the child Jesus. So, because Mary is bigger than Jesus, does that mean that she is exalted above Him? Of course not, and that would be a silly thing to accuse the Orthodox of but believe it or not I’ve heard that argument from protestants before.
**Actually, that icon is supposed to represent the unborn Divine Infant. This icon is variously called Our Lady of the Sign or Wider than the Heavens.

It’s place is in the apse.

In the DOME is the icon of Christ the Pantocrator (Ruler of All).**
 
=TristanCross;5486620]I was watching the Catholic Channel (ETWN), and a Mass was on. Behind the alter, I saw something incredibly disturbing in my own eyes. I saw a picture of Mary above a picture of Christ. Mary was the prime focus. This honestly made my blood boil. It got me hot.
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Why was her picture above the Lord’s? Why is Jesus under the feet of a creature who doesn’t even compare to Christ? :confused:
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***Mary is undoubtly the most perfect human being ever. And the most Blessed. Read Luke Chapters 1 and 2. [Just maybe you’ll gain a bit of wisdom and understanding?]

Having shared that Mary is neither Worshiped nor exhalted by Catholics and the Catholic Church, I ask that you read on.

We do recogonize the singular honor and privledge that had to be Mary’s in fulfilling her God apointed BUT FREELY ACCEPTED role as Mother of Christ the Redeemer.

The forth Commandment from GOD is to “honor thy father and thy mother.” Could Jesus do any less?

Their is NO attempt by the Church to place Mary literally above God or even on the same spiritual plane as the Godhead. But She is the Mother of God, the Most important Saint and the model of pure [and perfected] humanity to which we should try to emulate.

We praise Mary, reverence Mary and Love Mary; which is exactly what God, what Jesus would have us do.👍;)***

Hail mary; full of grace, pray for us sinners NOW and at the hour of our death!" AMEN!!!
 
Mary is undoubtly the most perfect human being ever.
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I’m sorry, but you’re dead wrong. That position is filled by CHRIST JESUS. She doesn’t even compare. Sure, she is blessed. She isn’t “the most perfect”.

By saying she is perfect, you exalt her, for only God is good and perfect. Jesus said it Himself.
We do recogonize the singular honor and privledge that had to be Mary’s in fulfilling her God apointed BUT FREELY ACCEPTED role as Mother of Christ the Redeemer
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Umm…did she really have a choice? God predestines certain things. He has a plan. Do you really think she had a choice to say “no”?

God is in control. He is Sovereign. 🙂
 
TristanCross said:
I’m sorry, but you’re dead wrong. That position is filled by CHRIST JESUS. She doesn’t even compare. Sure, she is blessed. She isn’t “the most perfect”.

By saying she is perfect, you exalt her, for only God is good and perfect. Jesus said it Himself.

Umm…did she really have a choice? God predestines certain things. He has a plan. Do you really think she had a choice to say “no”?

God is in control. He is Sovereign. 🙂
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You do have a lot of training to do before entering the Catholic Church.

Jesus Christ was not and is not a human person…He is a divine Person. If you say He was and is a human person, along with a divine Person, you are subscribing to the heresy of Nestorianism.

ALL of us are born with free will. None of us are robots and our Lady was no different. Adam and Eve were created free from original sin, yet they still sinned.
 
Again, so Mary could have said “no”? Again, God is Sovereign. The Bible is clear of that. He is in control. He has a plan. No, God doesn’t force every single thing upon us, but in many cases things are predestined. For instance: the fall was all a part of God’s plan.

So, Jesus was not really a man? Are you saying you believe Jesus was half God half man? :confused:

I honestly don’t share your view that St. John was a liar (“The Word became Flesh”)
 
TristanCross said:
Again, so Mary could have said “no”? Again, God is Sovereign. The Bible is clear of that. He is in control. He has a plan. No, God doesn’t force every single thing upon us, but in many cases things are predestined. For instance: the fall was all a part of God’s plan.

So, Jesus was not really a man? Are you saying you believe Jesus was half God half man? :confused:

I honestly don’t share your view that St. John was a liar (“The Word became Flesh”)
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Yes, God is sovereign yet we are free to reject Him just now if we wish…or we could continue to live a holy life. God does not drag us kicking and screaming into heaven. Faith is an act of love on our part, which is initiated by God’s grace.

Jesus had and still has two natures. An eternally existed divine nature and a created human nature. But these two natures only form one divine Person. Not two persons. This is what the Councils of Ephesus and Chalcedon taught.

God foresaw the Fall of man, but He did not cause it. He let it happen as nothing happens which God does not want to. If you say that God caused the Fall, that means God tempts people and wishes to see them fall. St James would refute that position.
 
stuart12 said:
God foresaw the Fall of man, but He did not cause it. He let it happen as nothing happens which God does not want to. If you say that God caused the Fall, that means God tempts people and wishes to see them fall. St James would refute that position.
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Then we agree on this.
 
Jesus was both man and God, not half of either. Fully man, fully God.
 
From what I have read of you so far, it seems that you have a Calvinist background. That right?
 
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