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Butzi
Guest
It is true. I was a JW.
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Butzi
Guest
Indeed. The fact that the Creed was formulated by the “Whore of Babylon” is enough to for them to reject it.What difference does it make if one can agree with one sentence but reject the rest?
They who reject the Son reject the Father.
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SteveVH
Guest
The entire reason that “God” is referenced as “Father” is in relation to the Trinity and cannot be properly understood outside of that context. He is Father only in relation to the Son and without the Son, God is not Father. The creed is saying that we believe in the Trinity. One cannot chop a sentence in half and then pretend to be in agreement.
However, I am willing to concede that they at least believe in God. They are clueless as to the meaning of his “Fatherhood”. He is only our Father through our becoming one with Jesus Christ, his only begotten Son.
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adf417
Guest
Greetings Tomdstone,
I for one can understand your point here Tom and would think Butzi could get to this same understanding if he looked at the what the JW’s actually reject from a non-categorical perspective and what Holy Mother Church would teach on this specific point. So to use this comment and get back to the OP, do you see how Butzi’s comment of “everything” not being binding on all Catholics different than the complete sermon Mr. Vencebbi preached at the convention? Is there a mechanism within the JW organization that can and will officially promulgate the only truths Mr. Vencebbi’s sermon and rebuke him for other non-truths spoken?
Peace!!!
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7_Sorrows
Guest
Jesus is equal ti Adam accordinf to JW’s I think.
At least from a book a JW gave me to read once when I was unaffiliated.
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PRmerger
Guest
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pacloc
Guest
Once again I would encourage you to learn more about the jws before defending them so much. They do not believe the father made anything but Michael the arcangel and that Michael made everything else.
And I almost forgot, they also believe Michael used other angels including the angel that would become Satan to create the earth.
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Tomdstone
Guest
Here’s what the JW say: “The true God is the Creator of all things. He had no beginning and will never have an end.”
See Good News from God.
jw.org/en/publications/?contentLanguageFilter=en
Like I said, perhaps they are angry because of the false and slanted information being spread about them.
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pacloc
Guest
You are looking more and more ignorant by each post. You seem certain that in your little knowledge you have about JWs that I am making false and slanted claims. I notice you don’t respond to the rebuttals I have given you that you seem to have no answer to. I will give you another. I don’t know if you either glossed over or don’t believe the fact that I stated earlier, that I was a JW almost my whole life.
This is from their site:
11 Jesus is Jehovah’s most precious Son—and for good reason. He is called “the firstborn of all creation,” for he was God’s first creation.* (Colossians 1:15) There is something else that makes this Son special. He is the “only-begotten Son.” (John 3:16) This means that Jesus is the only one directly created by God. Jesus is also the only one whom God used when He created all other things. (Colossians 1:16) Then, too, Jesus is called “the Word.” (John 1:14) This tells us that he spoke for God, no doubt delivering messages and instructions to the Father’s other sons, both spirit and human.
Here is the link:
wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102005134?q=jesus+created&p=par
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7_Sorrows
Guest
Sorry for the spelling errors. I post from my smartphone that isn’t so smart sometimes.
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Gaels
Guest
Well, I hate JW’s annoying conversion efforts at my doorstop. #goaway 
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Tomdstone
Guest
The quote I gave is directly from materials on their webpage. It states: “The true God is the Creator of all things. He had no beginning and will never have an end.”
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PRmerger
Guest
Amen!
JWs get a lot of things right–they love the Bible. We Catholics say
to that.They believe in one God. We Catholics say
to that.They believe it’s important to evangelize. We Catholics say
to that.It’s just where they get things wrong (and spectacularly so, sometimes) that we say:
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Tomdstone
Guest
Yes. That is why I would not agree with the poster who said “that they hate everything that is professed in the Creed.”Amen!
JWs get a lot of things right–they love the Bible. We Catholics say
They believe in one God. We Catholics say
They believe it’s important to evangelize. We Catholics say
It’s just where they get things wrong (and spectacularly so, sometimes) that we say:
http://media.tumblr.com/b2a9386c8985ff0a7c4e24e223d8d874/tumblr_inline_n03mb1mr4Y1r79k32.gif
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PRmerger
Guest
I wouldn’t agree either.
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PaulDupre1
Guest
The Jehovah’s Witnesses is a religion of hate. Without their hatred of Catholics and other Christians they have nothing to offer. I know several JWs. They are the most hateful and the most unhappy people I have ever met. They are even worse that the Mormons.
It is interesting that in that lecture, the JW points out that the office of Monsignor is not in the bible. Show me, if you please, where the term “governing board” appears in the bible.
The JW lecturer points out how the Jewish leaders laid heavy burdens upon their followers. Is that like the number of hours the governing board demands that every JW “pioneer” every month? Or the amount of money they demand that every JW pay? If you don’t put out what the governing board demands, you are unfaithful and therefore an unprofitable servant.
But Jesus taught that because of His sacrifice for our sins, we are no longer servants, but God’s own children. (Gal 4:7).
In the Catholic faith, we have the freedom that Jesus promised. We are no longer children, but are treated as adults who can follow our conscience as informed by the Holy Spirit. The New Testament is not just another set of demands; it is a declaration of freedom bestowed upon us as result of the perfect sacrifice Jesus made that has paid the price for all of our sins.
All we need to do is to believe in Him fully and abandon our selfish selves to Him - to trust Him and accept what He has done for us in gratitude and love. And then pray, listen to the Spirit and follow. The Holy Spirit teaches us what we need to know and what we need to do.
What a relief it is!
Saint Paul would be so heart-broken to see the heavy burdens the governing board places on the “Jehovah’s Witnesses”. The governing board undoes everything Jesus suffered and died for. Jesus became man, suffered humiliation and death and then rose again so that we could be free from the burdens of law and the domination of men.
Accept what Jesus did for you. Do not mock and shame Him. Please.
Paul
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Catholic_farmer
Guest
We Catholics are called to be sympethetic. How could you not have sympathy for those that do not have access to the sacraments that many of us take for granted?
I read quite a bit about JWs and they have my sympathy. When I spoke with one JW lady, I knew much more about her religion than she did. I’m sure she didn’t know about the founder of the JWs (Charles T. Russell 1852-1916. He was not a good man), nor did she know about how many times the JW leadership has erroneously predicted the end of the world. I’m sure she also knew nothing about how only 144,000 people will be allowed into heaven and that anyone who joined the JWs after 1935 isn’t eligible for heaven. They will have to settle for an earthly paradise. Also, how do JWs prove that the Holy Spirit left the original Church? The problem is, Jesus promised that He would be with the Church until the end of time. He never said He would leave the Church and go somewhere else. They also have some very troubling beliefs regarding annihilation of the soul.
I didn’t harp on her about these things. I just asked her about the trinity and we discussed what we had in common (a love for God). We spoke about the divinity of Jesus and how that relates to the trinity. She agreed with me about the trinity and seemed confused about her JWs teachings. By the end of our discussion, she was speaking about how much she loved the Pope and how she really did believe that Jesus was the Son of God. Maybe, with any luck, I gave her some things to think about. Charity is always better than hate. We should not hate anyone, regardless of what they say about us.
I read quite a bit about JWs and they have my sympathy. When I spoke with one JW lady, I knew much more about her religion than she did. I’m sure she didn’t know about the founder of the JWs (Charles T. Russell 1852-1916. He was not a good man), nor did she know about how many times the JW leadership has erroneously predicted the end of the world. I’m sure she also knew nothing about how only 144,000 people will be allowed into heaven and that anyone who joined the JWs after 1935 isn’t eligible for heaven. They will have to settle for an earthly paradise. Also, how do JWs prove that the Holy Spirit left the original Church? The problem is, Jesus promised that He would be with the Church until the end of time. He never said He would leave the Church and go somewhere else. They also have some very troubling beliefs regarding annihilation of the soul.
I didn’t harp on her about these things. I just asked her about the trinity and we discussed what we had in common (a love for God). We spoke about the divinity of Jesus and how that relates to the trinity. She agreed with me about the trinity and seemed confused about her JWs teachings. By the end of our discussion, she was speaking about how much she loved the Pope and how she really did believe that Jesus was the Son of God. Maybe, with any luck, I gave her some things to think about. Charity is always better than hate. We should not hate anyone, regardless of what they say about us.
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pacloc
Guest
I understand. Even in the same brochure you took your quote from, they later write the same thing about Jesus being the creator of all other creation in the chapter about Jesus. The point is that they can sometimes say something and not literally mean it. We as Catholics do it sometimes too. An example would be that we are to hate our father and mother and also we should love our brothers and honor our father and mother. It depends on what you are trying to say. So yes “Jehovah” created everything in the sense that it would not exist if it wasn’t his will. But technically, Jesus/Michael literally created all other creation. Both can be said. We as Catholics understand that the Holy Trinity works together in creating all things.
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pacloc
Guest
That is a good attitude to have. Sadly it is difficult to be that optimistic for us that were once JWs. I force myself to be so, but inside it just isn’t so. Most in fact do know about C.T. Russell, about the predictions of the end of the world, about no heavenly hope, etc. I feel pity for them, but a proper anger for their refusal to reason and their harmful influence on our weaker brethren rises to the top. If they were content to worship their own weird way, I would not have a problem, it is that they are forced to go around spreading their lies and ensnaring weak members of the body of Christ. So I have to be sympathetic and still properly not okay with leaving these people to continue their harmful campaign. I try to bring awareness about the witnesses whenever I can, it seems most people have a family member somewhat related to the religion.
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Fred_E
Guest
So, what you’re saying is that if I point out the JW group teaches heresy, while a large portion of the JW screed lays the ills of the world at the feet of the Catholic Church and blasts it, its clergy, its religious, and its members as minions of Satan, we’re moral equivalents.
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