Excluding Some Catholics from a Mass

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DBill

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Our “progressive” Pastor has announced a “Rock Mass” for kids ages 13 to 19. He has reiterated that no will be allowed to attend (except himself and the lead musician) who is not between the ages of 13 and 19. My question is not about the suitability of a “Rock Mass”. Unfortunately, even though rock music is not appropriate for the holy Sacrifice of the Mass, the music will probably be among the least problematic elements of the liturgy. My question is: is it permissible to expressly forbid a particular group of Catholics in good standing from attending a particular Mass? What I need is arguements to open the Mass up to parents or whoever else is interested. Thanks,
 
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DBill:
Our “progressive” Pastor has announced a “Rock Mass” for kids ages 13 to 19. He has reiterated that no will be allowed to attend (except himself and the lead musician) who is not between the ages of 13 and 19. My question is not about the suitability of a “Rock Mass”. Unfortunately, even though rock music is not appropriate for the holy Sacrifice of the Mass, the music will probably be among the least problematic elements of the liturgy. My question is: is it permissible to expressly forbid a particular group of Catholics in good standing from attending a particular Mass? What I need is arguements to open the Mass up to parents or whoever else is interested. Thanks,
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The celebration of Mass is ALWAYS a public event. ALL celebrations of Sacraments are held with the Catholic community present ALWAYS. As a mater of fact ALL validly Baptized Christians even those who are not fully united to the Catholic Church have a RIGHT to attend the entire Mass.
 
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DBill:
Our “progressive” Pastor has announced a “Rock Mass” for kids ages 13 to 19. He has reiterated that no will be allowed to attend (except himself and the lead musician) who is not between the ages of 13 and 19.
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I don’t know about legalistic rubrics, but I do know about parenting. There is no way in the world I would send my teenage child off to mass with a “progressive” priest who explicity forbids parental surpervision. I’d be finding a new parish with a youth group program more in tune with the fact that they are youth and therefore still in need of our supervision, tutelage, and care. Doesn’t this just make your tummy squirm with the feeling of “something’s not right”?
 
Br. Rich SFO:
The celebration of Mass is ALWAYS a public event. ALL celebrations of Sacraments are held with the Catholic community present ALWAYS. As a mater of fact ALL validly Baptized Christians even those who are not fully united to the Catholic Church have a RIGHT to attend the entire Mass.
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That is what I have always thought, however, I think DBill will need something official like something from Canon Law.

Saying that, I would talk to him anyway. If there is no satisfaction, contact the Bishop (preferably in writing).

PF
 
Go to your priest and suggest to him that if he wants to buck the trend, do something outrageous and controversial, show how much of a dissident he is, and see how much of a reaction he can get from people, he should forget about “rock Masses” for teenagers, and instead he should celebrate a Tridentine High Mass in good ecclesiastical Latin, with full Gregorian choir, incense, and bells----and he should invite the bishop and all “liturgical musicans”, “pastoral assistants”, and “worship experts” in the diocese to attend.

I can guarantee it’ll hit the fan. He’ll raise a lot more waves with a TLM than he will with a silly “rock Mass”.
 
I would ask in the Ask the Apologist forum for specific documentaion to show your priest but all Masses are open to any Catholic. Even a wedding Mass (or a funeral Mass) is open to any Catholic -not just those who were invited.

Anytime my child is invited to anything where a parent is not permitted to go, she will not be going. Not because I need to attend everything with my child but because the fact that I would be barred from attending raises red flags for me. I also think turning the Mass into a rock concert in totally inappropriate.
 
I don’t like the secretiveness of this. The Mass is not Reconciliation. Nobody should be telling sins or secrets during Mass…Even if the only secret is that Father is allowing rock music.

I would not let my child attend, and if the “progressive” priest did not change his stance, I would report him to the bishop.
 
To go off on a slight tangent, what then would be the legality of certain masses where attendence might be by ticket only, such as the Chrism Mass where space must be reserved in the Cathedral for representatives from all the parishes in the diocese? I fully understand the necessity for restricting who may attend and who may not, and I can not think of an alternative system that would work better without being unfair to persons who might wish to attend from far distances.
 
i guess so long as there are SOME publicly available seats, i dont see a problem. I know to go to midnight mass at some hstorical cathedrals, you need to reserve a seat, but the seats are publicly available
 
none of the regularly scheduled Sunday or daily Masses can be reserved for any exclusive group or individual. that being said, it is fair to warn parishioners that one Mass will have rock music, baptisms, renewal of wedding vows for all couples married 25 years and over, first communions, or any other activity that might give one reason for preferring to come to another Mass. The Mass is part of the Liturgy, which is the Public Prayer of the Church, so it cannot be closed to the public, not even a funeral Mass or nuptial Mass. there can be however limited seating (such a first communion Sunday) and even reserved seating, as long as the Church is open to the public.
 
Joseph Bilodeau:
To go off on a slight tangent, what then would be the legality of certain masses where attendence might be by ticket only, such as the Chrism Mass where space must be reserved in the Cathedral for representatives from all the parishes in the diocese? I fully understand the necessity for restricting who may attend and who may not, and I can not think of an alternative system that would work better without being unfair to persons who might wish to attend from far distances.
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A “ticket only” mass is not allowed. Unless a ticket is available to anyone who wants one. When numbers exceed safety. It may be necessary for many to stand outside but provision should be made for them to at least hear and participate in the Mass that is taking place inside.
 
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DBill:
Our “progressive” Pastor has announced a “Rock Mass” for kids ages 13 to 19. He has reiterated that no will be allowed to attend (except himself and the lead musician) who is not between the ages of 13 and 19. My question is not about the suitability of a “Rock Mass”. Unfortunately, even though rock music is not appropriate for the holy Sacrifice of the Mass, the music will probably be among the least problematic elements of the liturgy. My question is: is it permissible to expressly forbid a particular group of Catholics in good standing from attending a particular Mass? What I need is arguements to open the Mass up to parents or whoever else is interested. Thanks,
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In addition to the required openess of the Mass. It is very, very, stupid to try and restrict access to youth events by parents of the youth.
 
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WanderAimlessly:
That is what I have always thought, however, I think DBill will need something official like something from Canon Law.
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The responses are on target, and the sense of outrage appropriate, but here are just some canons for thought and there are others. More than a strong case can be made that this action is just reprehensible.

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Canon 213:The Christian faithful have the right to receive assistance from the sacred pastors out of the spiritual goods of the Church, especially the word of God and the sacraments.

*Canon 214:The Christian faithful have the right to worship God according to the prescriptions of their own rite approved by the legitimate pastors of the Church, and to follow their own form of spiritual life consonant with the teaching of the Church.

*Canon 837:§1. Liturgical actions are not private actions but celebrations of the Church itself, which is the sacrament of unity, that is, a holy people gathered and ordered under the bishops. Liturgical actions therfore belong to the whole body of the Church and manifest and affect it, they touch its individual members of the Church in different ways, however, according to the diversity of orders, functions and actual participation. §2. Inasmuch as liturgical actions by their nature involve a common celebration, they are to be celebrated with the presence and active participation of the Christian faithful where possible.

Canon 843:§1. Sacred ministers cannot deny the sacraments to those who seek them at appropriate times, are properly disposed, and are not prohibited by law from receiving them. §2. Pastors of souls and other members of the Christian faithful, according to their respective ecclesiastical function, have the duty to take care that those who seek the sacraments are prepared to receive them by proper evangelization and catechetical instruction, attentive to the norms issued by competent authority.

*Canon 1214:The term church signifies a sacred building destined for divine worship to which the faithful have a right of access for divine worship, especially its public exercise.

*Canon 1221:Entrance to a church during the time of sacred celebrations is to be free and gratuitous.
  • denotes 1983 translation
 
In our diocese we have mandatory training for all staff, volunteers, etc. who come into contact with children, including Preists. Ours is called Virtus, but I have heard other names for it. Bascially it is Sex Abuse awareness training. EVERY diocese has it now. For ANY priest to even suggest that parents are barred from being with their children show a ridiculus lack of good judgement, not to mention a violation of one of the core precepts of this training. He needs a respectfull smack upside the head and a “what were you thinking?” (and no, I am not advocating violence, it is sarcasm.)
 
I’m with everyone here – aside from the fact that the celebration of the Eucharist is a public celebration for anyone to attend, my “Mom Bells” were going off all over the place. No way would I allow my son (who is 15) attend a Mass where adults were specifically forbidden.

This priest should be talked to, and if nothing happens, his superior should be alerted.

'thann
 
I would IMMEDIATELY get on the telephone with the local bishop and ask him why, expecially in light of the recent sex scandals in the Catholic church, are priests in his diocese having closed door masses with children where no adults are ALLOWED to be present.
 
Br. Rich SFO:
The celebration of Mass is ALWAYS a public event. ALL celebrations of Sacraments are held with the Catholic community present ALWAYS. As a mater of fact ALL validly Baptized Christians even those who are not fully united to the Catholic Church have a RIGHT to attend the entire Mass.
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I do not believe this is true. I have attended Masses that were not open to the public.

One was a private Mass of a prayer group. Only those invited to the event where at the Mass.

The others were at religious houses that is not open to the public.
 
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DBill:
Our “progressive” Pastor has announced a “Rock Mass” for kids ages 13 to 19. He has reiterated that no will be allowed to attend (except himself and the lead musician) who is not between the ages of 13 and 19. My question is not about the suitability of a “Rock Mass”. Unfortunately, even though rock music is not appropriate for the holy Sacrifice of the Mass, the music will probably be among the least problematic elements of the liturgy. My question is: is it permissible to expressly forbid a particular group of Catholics in good standing from attending a particular Mass? What I need is arguements to open the Mass up to parents or whoever else is interested. Thanks,
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Let’s put it this way. If someone told me I could not attend a Mass that my child was attending, my child wouldn’t be there. Not only that, I would most definitely attend with video recorder in hand. If told to leave, I would simply tell them that you’re only as old as you feel and stay put. I can just imagine the millions of things that someone might try and float by a teen that I would be horrified if my child heard.

I can’t think of an instance where someone can be barred from Mass. Of course, one can be refused communion if they are a public, unrepentent sinner, etc. but that’s a whole other thread!

You know, I’m so disgusted with this that I would probably organize some sort of protest outside the church pointing out that PARENTS are to be the primary educators of their children. How about a Canon 226.2 March? How can you ensure their education when you are being excluded from it?! :mad:

OK, I’m calming down now! 😉
 
I can’t think of an instance where someone can be barred from Mass. Of course, one can be refused communion if they are a public, unrepentent sinner, etc. but that’s a whole other thread!
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And they are at least able to attend the Mass
You know, I’m so disgusted with this that I would probably organize some sort of protest outside the church pointing out that PARENTS are to be the primary educators of their children.
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I’d assume the better response would be to have the Parents not allow their kids to attend, therefor dropping attendence at the Mass.
 
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CatholicCid:
I’d assume the better response would be to have the Parents not allow their kids to attend, therefor dropping attendence at the Mass.
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Well, I did mention that my kids would not be there and of course I would rally the troops on this. The only problem is that it would be rare that you could get every parent to participate in this program and it is still a danger to children even if it is someone else’s child.

By the way, after my first five minutes of fuming I would write the priest, then the bishop first and then if there was not action taken against this I would picket in a heartbeat. Out and out activism is always a last resort but it isn’t one that should be tabled. I know activism is not for everyone but it is for some. To tell you the truth, I’m not all that comfortable with it but I’ll do it if the need arises. I can tell you that it was a great asset in our getting our new bishop who is wonderful!
 
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