Excommunicated bishop Fellay renews attacks on Christ's vicar

[rwoehmke]

Could it be that the illicitly consecrated good Bishop is concerned that SSPX lay members and even some priests may, because of the new more wide spread use of the EF, leave his jurisdiction?

 

[piouswoman]

Both are problematic. I see no significant difference between the two. A wolf by any other name…

Here is the difference for you…Bishop Fellay holds fast to tradition and practices the Catholic Faith just as popes, bishops, priests, saints, martyrs, doctors of the Church and our ancestors did for nearly two thousand years. In your flippant and poorly thought out reply you have certainly called many Catholics, including Saint Popes, throughout the ages…wolves.

I need not say anything about the other, you need only to hear him speak to see he is no Catholic.

 

[catharina]

Here is the difference for you…Bishop Fellay holds fast to tradition and practices the Catholic Faith just as popes, bishops, priests, saints, martyrs, doctors of the Church and our ancestors did for nearly two thousand years. In your flippant and poorly thought out reply you have certainly called many Catholics, including Saint Popes, throughout the ages…wolves.

I need not say anything about the other, you need only to hear him speak to see he is no Catholic.

Bigger and more important difference:

the Chicago priest has been put on leave-of-absence and removed from the rectory.
the bishop has been and still is an excommunicated priest.

 

[pnewton]

In your flippant and poorly thought out reply you have certainly called many Catholics, including Saint Popes, throughout the ages…wolves.

I am the one who thinks poorly? I know the difference between fact and opinion. I also do not come out with outrageous exaggerations as you just did in claiming I called any one except Fellay a wolf. That is a patent lie and has no place in the life of a Christian. Insult me if you must, but lying about what I said only reflects on your integrity.

 

[piouswoman]

Since when is name-calling a fact, much less on obvious one? Calling some one a liberal is expressing an opinion, whether commonly held or not. It is a hold-over from playground childishness.

My own opinion (which I do not pretend to be fact), is that **Fellay is as embittered as an anti-Catholic **and far more damaging to the Catholic faith. His comments constently reek of conspiratorial paranoia and anger at how the Holy Spirit has guided the Catholic Church over the last few decades. I see in his attitude an angry non serviam and for much the same reasons it was originally spoken. I sure tire of him attacking my family and loved ones.

I find it quite humorous and very hypocritical of you to accuse Bishop Fellay of name calling, when in fact, he is stating reality, and then to turn around and accuse him of being like an “embittered anti-Catholic”, of making comments that “reek of conspiratorial paranoia and anger”, as an “angry non serviam”.

The trouble I see with many today, is that the ambiguousness of the modernists has truly infected the minds of the ordinary Catholic. If liberalism is not evident to you in the workings of the Church today, then you are either blind or ignorant or a combination of the two. You cannot go on indefinitely denying what IS. Your eyes are for seeing, that is a fact…they are not for seeing things the way you would choose to see them, or the way that is convenient for you, or to see things depending on the times and era we live in…truth is truth and it does not change.

 

[catharina]

I find it quite humorous and very hypocritical of you to accuse Bishop Fellay of name calling, when in fact, he is stating reality, and then to turn around and accuse him of being like an “embittered anti-Catholic”, of making comments that “reek of conspiratorial paranoia and anger”, as an “angry non serviam”.

The trouble I see with many today, is that the ambiguousness of the modernists has truly infected the minds of the ordinary Catholic. If liberalism is not evident to you in the workings of the Church today, then you are either blind or ignorant or a combination of the two. You cannot go on indefinitely denying what IS. Your eyes are for seeing, that is a fact…they are not for seeing things the way you would choose to see them, or the way that is convenient for you, or to see things depending on the times and era we live in…truth is truth and it does not change.

It could be easily and truthfully said that an opinion that takes sides with an excommunicated bishop against HMC, is the most extreme example of modernist action in the Church.

 

[pnewton]

If liberalism is not evident to you in the workings of the Church today, then you are either blind or ignorant or a combination of the two…

Of course I see the liberalism in the Church today. Where I part ways with the disobedient Bishops is that I also see the Holy Spirit working in the Church today. But that takes eyes of faith and a dying to one’s own pride. The Church has always suffered from maladies, by they modernism, heresy, politics or a traitor named Judas. However, abandoning ship is never a better alternative than staying on board and continuing to man the lines. The ship which is the Church will not sink.

 

[piouswoman]

I am the one who thinks poorly? I know the difference between fact and opinion. I also do not come out with outrageous exaggerations as you just did in claiming I called any one except Fellay a wolf. That is a patent lie and has no place in the life of a Christian. Insult me if you must, but lying about what I said only reflects on your integrity.

I believe you speak from emotion, many Catholics today no longer use critical thinking. When you accuse Bishop Fellay of being a wolf, you infer that all the past popes, bishops, priests, saints, martyrs, doctors of the church and our ancestors who practiced our traditional Catholic faith as taught to us by Jesus Christ and *exactly *as does Bishop Fellay today, also of being wolves. That is what a patent lie is.

 

[9Choirs]

Here is the difference for you…Bishop Fellay holds fast to tradition and practices the Catholic Faith just as popes, bishops, priests, saints, martyrs, doctors of the Church and our ancestors did for nearly two thousand years. In your flippant and poorly thought out reply you have certainly called many Catholics, including Saint Popes, throughout the ages…wolves.

I need not say anything about the other, you need only to hear him speak to see he is no Catholic.

Herein lies the irony of your comment. Bishop Fellay holds fast to many past traditions of the Church, but he has done away with one important thing- obedience.

May I ask if you’re a member of the SSPX?(who are not in full communion with Rome)

 

[piouswoman]

Of course I see the liberalism in the Church today. Where I part ways with the disobedient Bishops is that I also see the Holy Spirit working in the Church today. But that takes eyes of faith and a dying to one’s own pride. The Church has always suffered from maladies, by they modernism, heresy, politics or a traitor named Judas. However, abandoning ship is never a better alternative than staying on board and continuing to man the lines. The ship which is the Church will not sink.

Why is it always falsely claimed that the SSPX has abandoned ship? That is not the truth. The bishops of the SSPX and those who prosper in their faith from assisting at their Holy Masses, remain faithful to Rome and to Holy Mother Church, they pray for the Holy Father at every Holy Mass.

POPE BENEDICT XVI

sspx
Pope Benedict XVI

The Society of St. Pius X professes filial devotion and loyalty to Pope Benedict XVI, the Successor of Saint Peter and the Vicar of Christ.

The priests of the SSPX pray for the intentions of the Holy Father and the welfare of the local Ordinary at every Mass they celebrate.

It is quite wrong to continually say that what is not true, to perpetuate false ideas and false opinions.

 

[piouswoman]

Herein lies the irony of your comment. Bishop Fellay holds fast to many past traditions of the Church, but he has done away with one important thing- obedience.

May I ask if you’re a member of the SSPX?(who are not in full communion with Rome)

It is the teaching of the Church that obedience is part of justice, one of the four cardinal virtues, which are in turn subordinate to the theological virtues of faith, hope and charity.
Faith is greater than obedience ! Therefore, if obedience acts to harm the faith, then a Catholic has a duty not to obey his superior.

"Now sometimes the things commanded by a superior are against God, therefore superiors are not to be obeyed in all things.

• St. Thomas Aquinas,
  Doctor of the Church
• Summa Theoligica II-IIQ. 104

But though we , or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema - Galatians 1:8

source:
stas.org/apologetics/crisis/Vatican_II/obedience.shtml

 

[Our_Refuge]

I think that what the SSPX wants is for Pope Benedict to speak more like Pius X, Leo XII. Until that happens they will consider him to be unwilling to speak without ambiguity. I would love to hear the Pope say what Pius X and Leo XII did. It would cause a firestorm in the secular media. But so what? If it was true then it is true now.

The church has chosen to temper her language. I must assume that this is what is best but I also see the SSPX viewpoint.
What would the secular media and the Protestant communities say if Pope Benedict publicly said the following.?

It is an error to believe that “Every man is free to embrace and profess that religion which, guided by the light of reason, he shall consider true”

In is an error to believe that “Man may, in the observance of any religion whatever, find the way of eternal salvation, and arrive at eternal salvation”

It is an error to believe that “Protestantism is nothing more than another form of the same true Christian religion, in which form it is given to please God equally as in the Catholic Church”.

" It is impossible for the most true God, who is Truth Itself, the best, the wisest Provider, and the Rewarder of good men, to approve all sects who profess false teachings which are often inconsistent with one another and contradictory, and to confer eternal rewards on their members”

 

[pnewton]

I believe you speak from emotion, many Catholics today no longer use critical thinking. When you accuse Bishop Fellay of being a wolf, you **infer **that … (blah, blah)…That is what a patent lie is.

It seems you may not have deliberately lied, but rather do not understand the difference between an inference (which is an errant opinion in this case) and a statement. This is not surprising since you also miss the difference between opinion and fact. I will leave it to others to determine on their own your how solid is grasp of English and logic and how this should color your pro-SSPX statements.

 

[9Choirs]

It is the teaching of the Church that obedience is part of justice, one of the four cardinal virtues, which are in turn subordinate to the theological virtues of faith, hope and charity.
Faith is greater than obedience ! Therefore, if obedience acts to harm the faith, then a Catholic has a duty not to obey his superior.

"Now sometimes the things commanded by a superior are against God, therefore superiors are not to be obeyed in all things.

• St. Thomas Aquinas,
  Doctor of the Church
• Summa Theoligica II-IIQ. 104

But though we , or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema - Galatians 1:8

source:
stas.org/apologetics/crisis/Vatican_II/obedience.shtml

Its not real helpful providing me to a link to a SSPX affiliated site.

The points you make (ironically again) are often the points liberal dissident Catholics use to justify their support of homosexuality and abortion.

I think I’ll stick to being faitful to Rome and not opting for neo protestantism.

And I take it you are a member of the SSPX although you declined to respond to my previous question

 

[catharina]

I can’t imagine a single good reason why the thoughts/words of an EXCOMMUNICATED bishop should find any space or support on a site called Catholic Answers.

 

[Jo_Benedict]

Note:

Please keep this discussion on track (i.e., discussing Bishop Fellay’s comments) or it will be closed.

 

[gdemetrios2000]

three points
1- vatican 2 has a fundamental flaw, it doesnt co-incide with catholic dogmas which proceeds it,
the “council” rather attempts to use modernist heretics like cogar, balthasar, kung, rahner to speak of these innovations
2- the SSPX isnt in schism and it is definitely not heretical
Lefevbre needed to consecrate bishops for one reason, that is to make sure his priests come from valid bishops- in the sense of there dogmatic purity, the novus ordo establish isn’t necesarily dogmatically pure.
And remember one thing, he didnt consecrate his bishops by giving them any jurisidictional authority over any particular area, if that was the case- then i wouldnt be defending the society
3- Listen to the truth, alot of you Vatican 2 people and Liberal “Catholics” reject the truth when it is shown to you.

The Church is ONE_HOLY_AND_APOSTOLIC

 

[pnewton]

I can’t imagine a single good reason why the thoughts/words of an EXCOMMUNICATED bishop should find any space or support on a site called Catholic Answers.

Atheist post here and link to other atheist. The same goes for many other non-Catholics. I have been frustrated because of the number of dissident traditionalists that are drawn to this topic and post in support of the SSPX, too. But on balance, I believe that the divisive nature of the SSPX, as well as the lack of humility, Phariseeism and general illogic of the whole situation comes through, too.

 

[catharina]

Note:

Please keep this discussion on track (i.e., discussing Bishop Fellay’s comments) or it will be closed.

Since Bishop Fellay remains in opposition to the teachings of the Church and to the actions of the Papacy, since he actually remains in a state of excommunication, there should be little doubt that his comments in opposing the Vicar of Christ are tied immutably to his own need for self-justification. That standard exists for all of his comments, both old and new.

Looking for new meaning in new comments is futile.

 

[catharina]

Atheist post here and link to other atheist. The same goes for many other non-Catholics. I have been frustrated because of the number of dissident traditionalists that are drawn to this topic and post in support of the SSPX, too. But on balance, I believe that the divisive nature of the SSPX, as well as the lack of humility, Phariseeism and general illogic of the whole situation comes through, too.

You might have a valid point.