excommunicated?

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henrikhank

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Laudetur Jesus Christus!
If a Catholic person say that the he/she doesn’t want to follow the Catholic Church since Jesus is the only King and Lord and therefore doesn’t care much about following the teachings of the Catholic Church but still lives as a very good Chistian will he/she be excommunicated?
 
Laudetur Jesus Christus!
If a Catholic person say that the he/she doesn’t want to follow the Catholic Church since Jesus is the only King and Lord and therefore doesn’t care much about following the teachings of the Catholic Church but still lives as a very good Chistian will he/she be excommunicated?
Which teachings of the Church and what do you mean when you write “doesn’t care much”?
 
I’ve heard that excommunication is something that is done out of love and concern for the wayward Catholic in the hopes of bringing that person back into the fold. I was also told that this is why high-profile people who profess to be Catholic while attacking the faith (like Nancy Pelosi) are not excommunicated. According to this professor, there wouldn’t be much point because she has already been mastered in pride.

Blessings,
Jules
 
Laudetur Jesus Christus!
If a Catholic person say that the he/she doesn’t want to follow the Catholic Church since Jesus is the only King and Lord and therefore doesn’t care much about following the teachings of the Catholic Church but still lives as a very good Chistian will he/she be excommunicated?
Teachings of Jesus = Teachings of the Catholic Church

If one wants to truly follow Jesus, the only way to do that is to be a part of the Catholic Church because only the Church teaches His truth in its entirety. If you don’t care about following the teachings of the Church, you don’t care about following the true teachings of Christ. Simple as that.
 
Laudetur Jesus Christus!
If a Catholic person say that the he/she doesn’t want to follow the Catholic Church since Jesus is the only King and Lord and therefore doesn’t care much about following the teachings of the Catholic Church but still lives as a very good Chistian will he/she be excommunicated?
A good Christian life means following the teachings of the Church which are the teachings of Christ.
Also, whether such a person is excommunicated or not they are still in a state of mortal sin and if they die unrepentant they condemn themselves to Hell.
 
Teachings of Jesus = Teachings of the Catholic Church

If one wants to truly follow Jesus, the only way to do that is to be a part of the Catholic Church because only the Church teaches His truth in its entirety. If you don’t care about following the teachings of the Church, you don’t care about following the true teachings of Christ. Simple as that.
👍

Here I was mentioning someone who doesn’t even care about attending Mass every Sunday. He/she may go to other chuches and maybe don’t even beleive in Friday Abstinence and don’t even beleive that the Catholic Chuch is the real Church, ie. saying that all chuches are founded by God. Does this lead to excommunication?
I’ve heard that excommunication is something that is done out of love and concern for the wayward Catholic in the hopes of bringing that person back into the fold. I was also told that this is why high-profile people who profess to be Catholic while attacking the faith (like Nancy Pelosi) are not excommunicated. According to this professor, there wouldn’t be much point because she has already been mastered in pride.

Blessings,
Jules
some people are automaticly excommunicated, ie the Church doesn’t even need to tell them they are excommunicated in order for it to be real.
 
Laudetur Jesus Christus!
If a Catholic person say that the he/she doesn’t want to follow the Catholic Church since Jesus is the only King and Lord and therefore doesn’t care much about following the teachings of the Catholic Church but still lives as a very good Chistian will he/she be excommunicated?
Can. 1364 §1. Without prejudice to the prescript of ⇒ can. 194, §1, n. 2, an apostate from the faith, a heretic, or a schismatic incurs a latae sententiae excommunication; in addition, a cleric can be punished with the penalties mentioned in ⇒ can. 1336, §1, nn. 1, 2, and 3.

Further definition of terms:

Can. 751 Heresy is the obstinate denial or obstinate doubt after the reception of baptism of some truth which is to be believed by divine and Catholic faith; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.

Can. 752 Although not an assent of faith, a religious submission of the intellect and will must be given to a doctrine which the Supreme Pontiff or the college of bishops declares concerning faith or morals when they exercise the authentic magisterium, even if they do not intend to proclaim it by definitive act; therefore, the Christian faithful are to take care to avoid those things which do not agree with it.

Can. 753 Although the bishops who are in communion with the head and members of the college, whether individually or joined together in conferences of bishops or in particular councils, do not possess infallibility in teaching, they are authentic teachers and instructors of the faith for the Christian faithful entrusted to their care; the Christian faithful are bound to adhere with religious submission of mind to the authentic magisterium of their bishops.

Now as far as “authentic magesterium” is concerned, John Paul II’s Motu Proprio, Apostolos Suos, covers this as follows:
…In faithfully exercising their teaching office, the Bishops serve the word of God, to which their teaching is subject, they listen to it devoutly, guard it scrupulously and explain it faithfully in such a way that the faithful receive it in the best manner possible…

(snip)

Taking into account that the authentic magisterium of the Bishops, namely what they teach insofar as they are invested with the authority of Christ, must always be in communion with the Head of the College (a/k/a the Pope) and its members (a/k/a the rest of the bishops around the world),
 
Perhaps it would help if the word “excommunication” is explained.

The CC teaches that all Catholics form one body in Christ.
Catholics, meaning those on earth, in purgatory, and in heaven.
They share in the graces, prayers, and in the treasury of merit
of the universal church. Just by virtue of belonging, a person
receives the help of all those good members within the church.

Excommunication means, that person is no longer sharing
in these benefits, but are excluded from all the good of
belonging to the one body of Christ. They are cut off
as a dead branch from the vine. Very bad.
Not only are they dead, but they are also cut off.
But even in this case, a Catholic can be restored to their
membership in the church by a good confession and repentance.
Excommunication is limited to a few select sins.

A mortal sin only, does not cut one off from the good effects
of the universal church’s prayers, graces, and other benefits.
The branch is not cut off from the vine, but remains on the vine.
The church includes all members in its intentions. And the
catholic can be restored to their live (vs dead) membership
by a good confession and repentance.

Just a thought.
 
Laudetur Jesus Christus!
If a Catholic person say that the he/she doesn’t want to follow the Catholic Church since Jesus is the only King and Lord and therefore doesn’t care much about following the teachings of the Catholic Church but still lives as a very good Chistian will he/she be excommunicated?
I don’t believe it would be a formal excommunication, basically they have excommunicated themselves. A Formal Excommunication is usually where there is scandal involved, Bishop LaFavere (sp) of France, even Politicians who openly support something that is grossly against Church teachings.

If it is not a Formal Excommunication, all that need to be done is to make a good Confession.
 
Can. 1364 §1. Without prejudice to the prescript of ⇒ can. 194, §1, n. 2, an apostate from the faith, a heretic, or a schismatic incurs a latae sententiae excommunication; in addition, a cleric can be punished with the penalties mentioned in ⇒ can. 1336, §1, nn. 1, 2, and 3…
Reading this together with the next paragraph
§2. If contumacy of long duration or the gravity of scandal demands it, other penalties can be added, including dismissal from the clerical state.
causes me to wonder if this is specific to clerics or if it applies to all.
 
Reading this together with the next paragraph

causes me to wonder if this is specific to clerics or if it applies to all.
Can. 11 Merely ecclesiastical laws bind those who have been baptized in the Catholic Church or received into it, possess the efficient use of reason, and, unless the law expressly provides otherwise, have completed seven years of age.

To understand this, you need to understand a couple of things:
  1. Excommunication is considered a “medicinal” type of penalty. Medicinal, as in its goal is to heal the illness (correct the dilect). “Other penalties, to include dismissal” are “expiatory” – sort of like amputation. Remove the defective part so it doesn’t spread its disease.
  2. There used to be two forms of excommunication practiced in the Church (see this Catholic Encyclopedia article on the subject):
    Vitandi: basically the same as “shunning” the person.
    Toleranti: where the person is not allowed to receive (or minister) the sacraments, but where he would not be shunned (e.g., he could still “attend” Mass, but could not receive Holy Communion).
In these days, Vitandi excommunication is not prescribed by the 1983 CIC.

You’ve also got “occult” versus “public” penalties. Canon 1339 states that you don’t prescribe “public” penalties for “occult” transgressions.

So you can see that a occult excommunication (even a self-recognized latae sententiae one) has less gravity than a public excommunication (to include a public declaration of a latae sententiae) excommunication. They are both considered “medicinal” in nature – i.e., they are designed to bring the person back into the sheepfold. A dismissal from the clerical state is, by its very nature, a very public act. And it is considered expiatory in nature, not medicinal. The way I read it, it’s actually a more serious penalty.

Why do I bring this up?

A lay person who has internal doubts and disbelief would likely never practically deal with an ecclesiastical tribunal or any type of ecclesiastical discipline (to include a letter from his bishop). Chances are, he would simply, in the case of heresy, schism, or apostasy, just excommunicate himself and go his merry way – to another religious institution or no religion at all. If the belief was corrected, he would merely have to make a good confession and the excommunication would be lifted just as easily.

That is known as the “internal forum.” Where it becomes a problem is when this problem moves from the “internal forum” to the “external forum.” – in this case, when his disbelief is made public and he tries to draw others away.

A lay person can only be penalized so much. The hierarchy can publicly declare that he is in a state of heresy, schism, or apostasy and has incurred a latae sententiae excommunication. But what else can they do? They can’t remove his baptismal grace. There is no other ecclesiastical penalty that they can provide. He can’t be suspended from being a lay person nor can he be dismissed from the lay state.

A cleric, on the other hand, could be latae sententiae excommunicated…but could be forced to go on a long period of “prayer and reflection” while in that state…he could be suspended…or he could be dismissed from the clerical state…the latter being an expiatory penalty that can’t be undone. The goal of the former would be to restore him. The goal of the latter would be to make sure that he couldn’t do more damage.

The point is that the two sections are consistent. But there is a difference between how ecclesiastical law can apply with the laity and the clergy.
 
Laudetur Jesus Christus!
If a Catholic person say that the he/she doesn’t want to follow the Catholic Church since Jesus is the only King and Lord and therefore doesn’t care much about following the teachings of the Catholic Church but still lives as a very good Chistian will he/she be excommunicated?
he has excommunicated himself, by removing himself from communion with the Church and divorcing himself from Christ’s grace in her sacraments. If he has done this with full knowledge, free will and intent he is apostate, and in a state of mortal sin. If he dies unreprentent, even when coming face to face with Christ at his judgment, and still persists in rejecting the Church founded by Christ, he risks eternal damnation.
 
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