Excommunication For Kennedy, Kerry, Leahy, Durbin, Et Al

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algran

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Can somebody answer me why the likes of the aforementioned “catholic” senators haven’t been excommunicated, or even refused communion by priests? These miserable people claim they’re catholic, but we all know that there are not. What, pro-abortion, disobedience to their Church, etc., etc.

Can the Holy Father make a declaration that these people are excommunicated, or does it have to go through the priest, then the Bishop? If so, then why have no Bishops, save the one in San Diego a few years back, exercised their right and excommunicated these blasphemous people?

Apparently, many former catholics, now evangelical or fundamentalist, have left the Church for the very reason that the Church has no teeth anymore.

So, anybody reading this know if the Church will begin exercising their power and get rid of these so-called catholics in Public Life?

Thanks and I await some good answers.

Art Granville
Hemet, CA
 
Itwould be politicaly very bad for the church to excommunicate these people. It would seem to be interfering in the political affairs of the USA.
Things short of it could be done.
 
If I remember correctly, there was an article about Politicians who go against Church teachings and their loss of the Sacraments, I believe in Oct… Though, I might be wrong or misread it… I’ll try and find a link.

But, as for it being politcally bad, not doing so would be worse. The Church should not take such trivial political matters and place them over it’s own teachings.
 
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JOHNYJ:
Itwould be politicaly very bad for the church to excommunicate these people. It would seem to be interfering in the political affairs of the USA.
Things short of it could be done.
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The word of God exceeds all political issues. The Church can not change it’s teachings or overlook continuous intentional Mortal Sin over concerns about politics.
 
I’ve often wondered this myself. If they all lived in Nebraska, or if Dick Durbin lived in the Rockford or Peoria diocese, well, it might have happened already.

I’ve heard it’s because it is up to the individiual who presents himself for reception of the Eucharist to determine if he meets the criteria, but I have also read that if someone, anyone, who is known publically to be in grave mortal sin, then a priest has the duty to turn him down.

I would also include Lisa Madigan in that list, but she is the attorney general of Illinois, and not a federal figure. Still, she keeps getting awards from so-called Catholic schools for essentially being a big, public believer in abortion.
 
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algran:
Can somebody answer me why the likes of the aforementioned “catholic” senators haven’t been excommunicated, or even refused communion by priests? These miserable people claim they’re catholic, but we all know that there are not…
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Could it be that many in the clergy are of the same mind?
 
Do these people belong to a parish?
Do they attend weekly and on Holy Days?
How Catholic are they to begin with?

But even those questions, I shouldn’t be raising because that puts me in the position of judging my brothers in Christ. It does not feel comfortable to me to be doing so, more like I’m on treacherous ground if I continue down that path.

Instead I trust in the Lord in all matters. Was it Isaiah (or Jeremiah) who complained about the wicked prospering while so many good people were not…and wasn’t the lesson from that, according to Jesus, for us to be that God’s justice is not our, that perhaps it is ours way that are not just? I think this was the sermon from this week or last…

It’s quite possible these people went to confession the Thursday before the Sunday they took communion…which of course would lead people like you and me to then question the validity of their confession, again, not a good path to go down, imo…

So bottom line, these guys are accountable to God in all things. If they approach communion with an unclean heart then they are doing serious damage to their souls - you and I don’t need to worry about what they appear to be getting away with - we know when all is said and done God will judge according to His ways, but we must always remember He is merciful and if there’s any way He can claim their souls with Him in heaven that is what’s going to happen whether you and I like it or not…

Then again, as Jesus taught us…we’re supposed to like it. Enough to do everything we can to make it happen. And that means to charitably and kindly continue to remind them their votes are contrary to Church teaching. It means praying for them fervently in hopes the Holy Spirit moves them to reversion. And most importantly, if they should die, we should offer an indulgence up for their souls in purgatory. And we’re called to do this lovingly, charitably, and without bitterness.
 
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miguel:
Could it be that many in the clergy are of the same mind?
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I fear this is the greater problem.
Which then gets us to ask why Rome doesn’t clean house.

But again, that reminds me of the people complaining to Jesus about alot of technicalities…and how Jesus tended to respond to such concerns by redirecting the focus of the ones complaining to the bigger picture. Some times he’d acknowledge that the rules were being abused, broken, too strictly observed, but he didn’t do anything about it. He just used them as an example to others on how not to go about praising God. So I take that as my cue to not get caught up with clamoring for justice in the moment no matter how unfair and frustrating the situation is. It makes no logical sense to continue to confuse the faithful with these seemingly contradictory positions (a Church without teeth)…

Then again, Jesus never bit. Never.

I gotta be honest, I hear people complain and I empathize with what they’re saying…I want to be as upset about these things as they are for it seems right that they are, but something inside me tells me not to go there and I know it comes from those type of bible passages I’ve referred to. Am I getting the wrong message from them? Am I missing something?
 
Apparently, many former catholics, now evangelical or fundamentalist, have left the Church for the very reason that the Church has no teeth anymore.
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I would find this very hard to believe. Fundamentalism has an entirely different worship and belief paradigms than the Catholic Church, the position on abortion rights or other political and social issues hardly seems sufficient to make that kind of switch.
 
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Kielbasi:
I would find this very hard to believe. Fundamentalism has an entirely different worship and belief paradigms than the Catholic Church, the position on abortion rights or other political and social issues hardly seems sufficient to make that kind of switch.
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In my small office of 10, 6 are practicing catholics.
3 are the kind who are upset with the church for not focusing more attention on the poor and needy instead of the gay marriage and contraception issues. But they respect and obey the pope.
3 are the kind who trust the Church and do not presume to begin to even understand all that she has studied to come to the conclusions she’s drawn, so they respect and obey the pope.
3 were baptized and raised catholic but are now in other denominations because of the social justice focus those churches have. They are more ‘hands on’ actually doing missionary work here and abroad. They pretty much left the Catholic church over the teachings of contraception for the poor, particularly in Africa, and over stem-cell research.
1 is born/raised/currently Methodist and prefers it that way. Spent a year in Africa doing her required missionary work with her husband.

Of my siblings (4 of us), I’m the only practicing catholic. My brothers left the Church because of their divorces. My sister left the church because the baptist one was more ‘personal’ and communal (much smaller)…plus she married a non-catholic. Come to think of it, even though I was in the wedding (I was only 18), I don’t recall whether or not it was a Catholic wedding at all. :eek:

My husband is one of 9 siblings…all raised Catholic, strictly speaking, too. 5 are practicing Catholics. 2 left catholicism because of divorce. 2 are questionable…last time we spoke with them they seemed of the “the End Is Near” mentality (very doomsdayish/Revelations centered) which makes hubby and me think they may be attending church, but not necessarily a Catholic one.

We are losing members because of political/social teachings, but I think we lose most because of divorce. I know those in our family did so because they believed they had no other choice. They broke the covenant, they refuse to view the first marriages as if they never happened (so they won’t consider annulment), they wanted to remarry to have children so they married where they were accepted. In other words, they took the easier way out (for them).
 
I think that the problem with them not being excommunicated is the message that we send to people that aren’t Catholic. They think that anything goes with Catholics.

One time some good friends of ours that aren’t Catholic told us what they thought of Kennedy’s so called annulment. They thought it was a way for the church to collect money from someone rich like Kennedy. Isn’t an annulment hard to explain to a non catholic? Actually when it comes to Kennedy I have to be careful what I say because I am terribly judgemental. It is not for me to do or say anything, but if a Bishop excommunicated them I would sort of be relieved.
 
Many of the clergy are of the same mind. Many of the Catholics who vote for them are mindless, too.
 
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mdzialo1:
Many of the clergy are of the same mind. Many of the Catholics who vote for them are mindless, too.
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Their bishop won’t excommunicate them. He’s too busy releasing statements on “social justice,” praying to Allah, and making nice with heretics.
 
The whole issue of judging has to do with the state of souls, not of actions. So while I cannot say that I know a person to be in a state of grave sin, I can most certainly say that he has committed an act that constitutes grave matter. The Church knows that when John Kerry presents himself for communion the priest at parish X cannot know whether John just received absolution yesterday at parish Y.

But Church law still requires refusal of communion in cases of persistent public sin. Public because this provides certain knowledge of the act having been committed, and this is often known by enough people that to distribute the sacrament to such an individual would be scandalous. Persistent because this sets a pattern of action that suggests even any confession of the act in between may not indicate sincere contrition as well as needing a public repudiation of one’s former position in order to avoid scandal.

Those are not official reasons for the prescription, only ones that I can think of off the top of my head. At any rate, they should show that passing judgment the state of an individual’s soul is not always what is happening when one get’s angry over the current state of “Catholic” politics.
 
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YinYangMom:
I gotta be honest, I hear people complain and I empathize with what they’re saying…I want to be as upset about these things as they are for it seems right that they are, but something inside me tells me not to go there and I know it comes from those type of bible passages I’ve referred to. Am I getting the wrong message from them? Am I missing something?
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No, you’re not, and I have to agree: Let he without sin cast the first stone.
Although I deplore their stances, I think the better course of action is to try to reach them with the truth, and of course pray for them.
As I see it, the biggest problem with Roe v. Wade is that it is an example of an absence of law. Congress had not defined when life begins, so the court, searching through history for a precedent, found a lot of ambiguity, even from the Church. So they stood on the side of “the right to privacy”.
This, of course, is hogwash; through the miracle of science, we now know when life begins. From the moment of conception, it is a human being: whether zygot, embryo, fetus, baby, child, teen, adult, etc. it has only one possibility: grow older until death. The terminal side of it is supposed to be in God’s hands, not ours.
 
RE : 2 shelby & Catholic Cid
The Catholic church has supped with the devil often and not always with a long spoon.
Making accomodations for politics is not unusual.
You are being very naive if you believe otherwise.
 
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JOHNYJ:
RE : 2 shelby & Catholic Cid
The Catholic church has supped with the devil often and not always with a long spoon.
Making accomodations for politics is not unusual.
You are being very naive if you believe otherwise.
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So the fact that they have made mistakes or errors in judgement in the past is a valid reason to just forget all church teaching and just give intentionally recurring mortal sin a pass??
 
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algran:
Can somebody answer me why the likes of the aforementioned “catholic” senators haven’t been excommunicated, or even refused communion by priests? These miserable people claim they’re catholic, but we all know that there are not. What, pro-abortion, disobedience to their Church, etc., etc.

Can the Holy Father make a declaration that these people are excommunicated, or does it have to go through the priest, then the Bishop? If so, then why have no Bishops, save the one in San Diego a few years back, exercised their right and excommunicated these blasphemous people?

Apparently, many former catholics, now evangelical or fundamentalist, have left the Church for the very reason that the Church has no teeth anymore.

So, anybody reading this know if the Church will begin exercising their power and get rid of these so-called catholics in Public Life?

Thanks and I await some good answers.

Art Granville
Hemet, CA
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None of us know the nature of private conversations that may be going on between the Senator and his Bishop. My former Bishop was rumored to have carried on this type of conversation with a politician in my state for years. Unfortunately, the result is rumored that hte politician decided to remove himself from teh Church rather than reform his position. However, this is just rumor and to the extent that it should be private, focused on the soul of the politician, and not pressures from the outside, I really don’t even know if the Church is served by this debate.

Excommunication (as in the public act as was done with Henry VIII) is to be a last resort. We need to pray for a conversion of their hearts.
 
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2shelbys:
So the fact that they have made mistakes or errors in judgement in the past is a valid reason to just forget all church teaching and just give intentionally recurring mortal sin a pass??
Click to expand...
Hmmmm, does the name Jackie Kennedy Onassis ring a bell?

Remember the huge lavish Catholic funeral service she got?

She was living with a man who was not even divorced from his wife.
For the church, having lots of money is a valid reason to just forget all church teaching.

Ok, maybe not forget, but “just look the other way”.
 
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