Excommunication of priests

[ardyroberto]

Hi,
Just wanted to know if the Roman Catholic church deletes all records of priests who have been excommunicated… i.e. how do you know or prove if a former priest was really a priest if they say they were excommunicated?

 

[Godfollower]

“Sacerdos in aeternum.” When you are ordained, “Thou art a priest for ever according to the order of Melchisedech.”

Even after a priest is laicized, he still retains the power of a priest – even if he is also excommunicated. He just isn’t allowed to do so except in rare circumstances.

So, no: the records of his ordination are not expunged. For good or for ill, he was in fact ordained, and the records will show that.

(By the way, just in case we’re miscommunicating here, excommunication and laicization are two different things. Any Catholic can be excommunicated; only clergy can be laicized. Excommunication means he has been tossed out of the Church, even as a member. Being defrocked or laicized means that he is still a member of the Church but no longer allowed to act as priest).

 

[Don_Jackson]

“Sacerdos in aeternum.” When you are ordained, “Thou art a priest for ever according to the order of Melchisedech.”

Even after a priest is laicized, he still retains the power of a priest – even if he is also excommunicated. He just isn’t allowed to do so except in rare circumstances.

So, no: the records of his ordination are not expunged. For good or for ill, he was in fact ordained, and the records will show that.

(By the way, just in case we’re miscommunicating here, excommunication and laicization are two different things. Any Catholic can be excommunicated; only clergy can be laicized. Excommunication means he has been tossed out of the Church, even as a member. Being defrocked or laicized means that he is still a member of the Church but no longer allowed to act as priest).

I would submit that excommunication means you are tossed out of the Roman Catholic (et al) Church, and not the Church which is the body of Christ.

Being “tossed” out of the body of Christ would be a judgment of eternal damnation, a judgment and an outcome that can only be known by the One True God (who alone knows the heart of each man), and made by Christ Jesus in his role as judge.

While priests serve sacramentally in the person of Christ, they are not entrusted with the judgment of souls on behalf of Christ.

Peace and all good!

 

[Gorgias]

Godfollower:

Excommunication means he has been tossed out of the Church, even as a member.

I would submit that excommunication means you are tossed out of the Roman Catholic (et al) Church

No, this is not what ‘excommunication’ means. From the Catechism, paragraph 1463:

Certain particularly grave sins incur excommunication, the most severe ecclesiastical penalty, which impedes the reception of the sacraments and the exercise of certain ecclesiastical acts, and for which absolution consequently cannot be granted, according to canon law, except by the Pope, the bishop of the place or priests authorized by them.

In other words, excommunication is a penalty. It can be removed. It’s not “tossing a person out of the Church”, but rather, restricting their ability to receive sacraments (until they repent and return to the Church to be forgiven).

 

[cornbread_r2]

It’s my understanding that even excommunicated Catholics still have an obligation to attend mass on Sunday and holy days of obligation.

 

[Don_Jackson]

No, this is not what ‘excommunication’ means. From the Catechism, paragraph 1463:

In other words, excommunication is a penalty. It can be removed. It’s not “tossing a person out of the Church”, but rather, restricting their ability to receive sacraments (until they repent and return to the Church to be forgiven).

Yes, of course, you are correct!

If the Church prohibits a person from receiving the sacraments, does it also mean because he is not allowedto receive sacraments he is not necessarily damned?

If he is damned, due to the church leaders to withhold sacraments, that poses quite a conundrum. In effect, it might amount to “spritiual abortion”.

I’m asking this with all due respect and reverence, and not to appear anti-Catholic, because I am devoted to both Christ and what I consider to be the true church.

I’d be interested in the thoughts of others.

 

[Gorgias]

If the Church prohibits a person from receiving the sacraments, does it also mean because he is not allowedto receive sacraments he is not necessarily damned?

If he is damned, due to the church leaders to withhold sacraments, that poses quite a conundrum.

Technically speaking, a person who is excommunicated is not ‘damned’. After all, that person still has the opportunity to repent, confess, and return to communion with the Church.

Are you asking what the situation would be of a person who was ex-communicated but never thereafter reconciled with the Church? That’s a different question…

In effect, it might amount to “spritiual abortion”.

Well, no. It’s not ‘abortion’ in the sense that the person has done something that has caused them to separate themselves from the communion of the Church. Recognizing that fact, the Church informs the person that they cannot continue to receive the sacraments until that situation is rectified. So, if the person persists in their sin, it’s not as if the Church has initiated the situation in question, but rather, that the person has not remedied the situation that caused the Church to sit up and take notice…

 

[1ke]

Hi,
Just wanted to know if the Roman Catholic church deletes all records of priests who have been excommunicated…

No, whatever gave you that idea?

i.e. how do you know or prove if a former priest was really a priest if they say they were excommunicated?

Well, sacramental records are confidential, so **you **likely do not prove anything.

If you think someone is impersonating a priest, then contact the diocese to alert them to the situation.

 

[thistle]

Yes, of course, you are correct!

If the Church prohibits a person from receiving the sacraments, does it also mean because he is not allowedto receive sacraments he is not necessarily damned?

If he is damned, due to the church leaders to withhold sacraments, that poses quite a conundrum. In effect, it might amount to “spritiual abortion”.

I’m asking this with all due respect and reverence, and not to appear anti-Catholic, because I am devoted to both Christ and what I consider to be the true church.

I’d be interested in the thoughts of others.

A person who is excommunicated is not damned. You are only damned if you die in a state of mortal sin.
Anyone who has committed a mortal sin, even those who have additionally been excommunicated have access to the Sacrament of Reconciliation and can simply go to Confession to be reconciled to Christ and his Church. Depending on the excommunication offense this can be done by the priest, or may have to be referred to the bishop, or in extreme cases the Pope.

 

[JGMendes4049]

It’s my understanding that even excommunicated Catholics still have an obligation to attend mass on Sunday and holy days of obligation.

Yes, just as most laicized priests are still bound to recite the Office.