Excommunication-Scrupulosity

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MaeganFlinchum1

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ok so im a little confused right now? i read blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/8118027/The_sins_that_only_the_Pope_can_absolve_and_why_there_should_be_more_of_them/

the above article, and there was a part in the article saying that if someone attempted assasination of the pope (ofcourse i dont believe this has ever been attempted as far as i know).

well long story short i have had a little bit of a battle with thoughts pertaining to this. then i thought well what IF i wanted the pope to die??? it was a terrible thought to have and i really didnt mean it! then a bunch of other terrible thougts came to mind and i was tempted to laugh, and im afraid i might have partially consented laughter but i dont know…o i feel so terrible and embarassed about this…i just need some peace of mind…did i commit this sin and was the article even legitament? also im not baptized (if that changes things)
 
(from previous posts of mine)

Regarding unwanted thoughts

While Jesus makes it clear that one can sin in ones thoughts…just cause some bad thought or other like thought happens does not mean that one has sinned…

What should we do with* unwanted* thoughts ? Those pesky temptations that can come …even though we are not seeking them or doing anything to bring them etc…

Are they mortal sins?

For a mortal sin one needs a grave matter …full knowledge AND deliberate consent!!!

A. If you do not want the thought…it the thought displeases you: it can be a sign actually that you did not give any consent or do not give full consent.

B. Even if you felt a temptation for the thought – and were drawn to it involuntarily —but rejected it and maybe even turned right to God : again a sign not full consent (if there was any).

C. But what if one has a tempting thought -and even hesitated for a moment…but then rejected it for one did not want to sin?: it can be partial consent perhaps (and thus a venial sin)-- or it may be no sin at all but rather a strong temptation that drew you but then you saw what was happening and turned away.

D. A temptation can even be very strong or the thoughts very often – but this does NOT mean one has consented!

Remember --for it to be mortal there must be that deliberate consent!

What to do? on the spiritual side–relax first of all and remember the above.

Next – know that the more one fears the thoughts the more likely they are to come… or said another way --the more a person stress about seeking to avoid the thoughts the more likely he will have a problem with them.

for example: for the next 10 seconds try NOT to think of an apple.

tick tock …

tick tock…

Ok what did you think of?

Most likely an apple.

So it is best to ignore them and just not consent and then turn your attention to some other good thing…for instance whatever you are doing.

Simply do not consent and move on…

Another point – thoughts can just happen --they are the stuff with which we think…it is up to us to consent and take them further or not. And just because they are REAL VIVID and almost “think themselves” does not mean per se that one has given ANY consent.

They can be annoying…but need cause no actual harm …

(Now difficulties with thoughts can happen to anyone…and has for centuries…nothing new!..but I will note too that “some” have a condition known as OCD (I knew someone with this once…it was a painful experience)…and thus should seek further professional help to work at overcoming it and to live a more peaceful life…Jimmy Akin of CA jimmyakin.com/2005/04/a_crown_of_thor.html --note one ought not “try” various things if one is having this difficulty but discuss with a doctor as he notes)

(Also some suffer from scrupulosity and ought to have a* regular confessor* to guide them --who can help them with such)
 
Regarding excommunication – not that I am saying a baptized person would be excommunicated for thoughts --but in the case of a unbaptized person they are not able to be excommunicated …for they are not yet baptized…
 
Bookcat said:
(from previous posts of mine)

Regarding unwanted thoughts

While Jesus makes it clear that one can sin in ones thoughts…just cause some bad thought or other like thought happens does not mean that one has sinned…

What should we do with* unwanted* thoughts ? Those pesky temptations that can come …even though we are not seeking them or doing anything to bring them etc…

Are they mortal sins?

For a mortal sin one needs a grave matter …full knowledge AND deliberate consent!!!

A. If you do not want the thought…it the thought displeases you: it can be a sign actually that you did not give any consent or do not give full consent.

B. Even if you felt a temptation for the thought – and were drawn to it involuntarily —but rejected it and maybe even turned right to God : again a sign not full consent (if there was any).

C. But what if one has a tempting thought -and even hesitated for a moment…but then rejected it for one did not want to sin?: it can be partial consent perhaps (and thus a venial sin)-- or it may be no sin at all but rather a strong temptation that drew you but then you saw what was happening and turned away.

D. A temptation can even be very strong or the thoughts very often – but this does NOT mean one has consented!

Remember --for it to be mortal there must be that deliberate consent!

What to do? on the spiritual side–relax first of all and remember the above.

Next – know that the more one fears the thoughts the more likely they are to come… or said another way --the more a person stress about seeking to avoid the thoughts the more likely he will have a problem with them.

for example: for the next 10 seconds try NOT to think of an apple.

tick tock …

tick tock…

Ok what did you think of?

Most likely an apple.

So it is best to ignore them and just not consent and then turn your attention to some other good thing…for instance whatever you are doing.

Simply do not consent and move on…

Another point – thoughts can just happen --they are the stuff with which we think…it is up to us to consent and take them further or not. And just because they are REAL VIVID and almost “think themselves” does not mean per se that one has given ANY consent.

They can be annoying…but need cause no actual harm …

(Now difficulties with thoughts can happen to anyone…and has for centuries…nothing new!..but I will note too that “some” have a condition known as OCD (I knew someone with this once…it was a painful experience)…and thus should seek further professional help to work at overcoming it and to live a more peaceful life…Jimmy Akin of CA jimmyakin.com/2005/04/a_crown_of_thor.html --note one ought not “try” various things if one is having this difficulty but discuss with a doctor as he notes)

(Also some suffer from scrupulosity and ought to have a* regular confessor* to guide them --who can help them with such)
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I love you for these posts 🙂 nd one more question. what if, by the way i dont think i consented, a person did deleberatly consent to a tjought like mine? would they be excommunicated?
 
MaeganFlinchum1 said:
I love you for these posts 🙂 nd one more question. what if, by the way i dont think i consented, a person did deleberatly consent to a tjought like mine? would they be excommunicated?
Click to expand...
The canon is about “using” physical force… not having a thought occur to one about such.
 
MaeganFlinchum1 said:
I love you for these posts 🙂 nd one more question. what if, by the way i dont think i consented, a person did deleberatly consent to a tjought like mine? would they be excommunicated?
Click to expand...
No. Period. Not even close. Thoughts do not excommunicate you. I think you are confused by what Excommunication is, and would benefit from looking it up and reading about it.

We all, every single one of us, have unwanted thoughts. As long as you are not deliberately dwelling on them, and I don’t mean just a brief period of thought and then catching yourself, I mean a deliberate dwelling on them, you are NOT sinning.
 
Having responded to a number of persons with various degrees of scruples over time – I will note the following:

Scruples can come in many and varied forms and degrees.

The French call it the doubting disease (though it is not a disease) for one has lot of problems knowing one knows…thus with doubt (or more often “apparent doubt”).

Of course there are degrees and it is possible for a person to have generally a delicate conscience or a normal conscience and still have a struggle with scruples in certain areas…or have very transient scruples such at the time of their conversion …or deeper conversion etc.

And a person may go from one to the other…

One combats scruples with a regular confessor…(via a kind of obedience in all but of course manifest sin – so if the confessor says murder his secretary or use contraception --well then one needs a new confessor!)

by forming ones conscience…(with such as the Catechism etc)

and with the guidance of the confessor – acting against ones scruples…

possibly by him giving some general principles for the person to follow in their case.

Contra scruplos agendum est, et fixo operis pede certandum

(Act contrary to scruples and with a firm foot overcome them) (with the assistance of the confessor/spiritual director)

Overcoming ones scruples…ones fears… with a “firm foot” --learning to act against them under the guidance of your confessor. Dismiss them. Not argue with them.

Scruples are to be treated like a barking dog or a hissing goose (to borrow the image from a 15th century Carthusian) --one does not stop to argue with either of those does one?

by prayer…

Thinking more on the love of God and true life in Christ…

etc

Jesus is the Good Shepherd – he knows you and loves you.
 
Bookcat said:
Having responded to a number of persons with various degrees of scruples over time – I will note the following:

Scruples can come in many and varied forms and degrees.

The French call it the doubting disease (though it is not a disease) for one has lot of problems knowing one knows…thus with doubt (or more often “apparent doubt”).

Of course there are degrees and it is possible for a person to have generally a delicate conscience or a normal conscience and still have a struggle with scruples in certain areas…or have very transient scruples such at the time of their conversion …or deeper conversion etc.

And a person may go from one to the other…

One combats scruples with a regular confessor…(via a kind of obedience in all but of course manifest sin – so if the confessor says murder his secretary or use contraception --well then one needs a new confessor!)

by forming ones conscience…(with such as the Catechism etc)

and with the guidance of the confessor – acting against ones scruples…

possibly by him giving some general principles for the person to follow in their case.

Contra scruplos agendum est, et fixo operis pede certandum

(Act contrary to scruples and with a firm foot overcome them) (with the assistance of the confessor/spiritual director)

Overcoming ones scruples…ones fears… with a “firm foot” --learning to act against them under the guidance of your confessor. Dismiss them. Not argue with them.

Scruples are to be treated like a barking dog or a hissing goose (to borrow the image from a 15th century Carthusian) --one does not stop to argue with either of those does one?

by prayer…

Thinking more on the love of God and true life in Christ…

etc

Jesus is the Good Shepherd – he knows you and loves you.
Click to expand...
thank you 🙂
 
CB_Catholic said:
No. Period. Not even close. Thoughts do not excommunicate you. I think you are confused by what Excommunication is, and would benefit from looking it up and reading about it.

We all, every single one of us, have unwanted thoughts. As long as you are not deliberately dwelling on them, and I don’t mean just a brief period of thought and then catching yourself, I mean a deliberate dwelling on them, you are NOT sinning.
Click to expand...
i porbably am confused :o and also (sorry for so many questions) is there a sin that only the pope can absolve? like a sin that takes someone higher than a priest to absolve?
 
I think excommunication generally involves the reponse of the Church to public acts against the teaching of the Church on faith or morals. I cannot imagne how a mere thought would rise to that level. The thoughts described seem more related to scrupulosity and I suggest that you just ignore them. Sometimes when one is tired or anxious, strange things enter the mind. Most people just gloss over them and ignore them. Scrupulous people fret over them. Don’t!
 
MaeganFlinchum1 said:
i porbably am confused :o and also (sorry for so many questions) is there a sin that only the pope can absolve? like a sin that takes someone higher than a priest to absolve?
Click to expand...
I think what you are referring to is the lifting of an Excommunication, which is not the same as absolving sin. There are certain acts which only the Pope can lift the excommunication from. But don’t confuse excommunication with absolution. That is why I said to look it up.
 
MaeganFlinchum1 said:
the above article, and there was a part in the article saying that if someone attempted assasination of the pope (ofcourse i dont believe this has ever been attempted as far as i know).
Click to expand...
Surely you are aware that the last Pope was shot and seriously wounded while in St. Peter’s square? The assassin–who was a Muslim, not Catholic–was forgiven by Pope John Paul, so excommunication was not an issue.
 
MaeganFlinchum1 said:
i porbably am confused :o and also (sorry for so many questions) is there a sin that only the pope can absolve? like a sin that takes someone higher than a priest to absolve?
Click to expand...
Yes.

The Apostolic See must give any absolution from the sins of the direct violation of the Sacramental Seal of Confession and the absolution of an accomplice in a sin against chastity. (Eastern Catholic canon law CCEO 728.1 and Latin canon law CIC 1388 and 1378.1.)

Also the Bishop absolves for the sin of procurement of a completed abortion. (Eastern Catholic canon law CCEO 728.2 and Latin canon law CIC 1398, 1355, 1356.)

There are some exceptional conditions for these, which when present, do not require the Bishop. Also the eastern Catholic Churches may create reserved sins (unlike the Latin Church).
 
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