Excommunication

[Apostate]

Hello,

I was raised what I call “vaguely Catholic.” My family only ever attended Mass sporadically, we were not even christmas/ easter catholics. I was baptized but never Confirmed and I have never been to Confession. I haven’t been to Mass since summer 2004, but since my teen years I’ve been an atheist (OK I had an intensive interest in Buddhism from 1998-2003). Over the last 2 years I’ve been listening to the local Catholic radio station quite regularly to learn more about the faith out of curiosity & in the interest of intellectual honesty. I find that the more I learn from the source, the more certain I become that the Church is, well out of respect for this forum let me just say that it’s not for me. So I want to be officially excommunicated. How can I do that? I do not believe in any god or gods and I feel dishonest knowing that I may still be technically catholic and I’m sure that true believers don’t want an apostate in their midst. Is there a process or is just not attending Mass enough?

I realize that this may be a shock to most. I didn’t join this forum to debate the issues (since the debate would never end) or to bait anyone. I really just want to know about excommunication and I’m willing to respectfully answer questions about my Catholic experience and lack of faith.

 

[1ke]

So I want to be officially excommunicated. How can I do that?

If you are under the impression that excommunication makes you no longer Catholic, you are incorrect. By virtue of your baptism you are Catholic forever.

Excommunication is a canonical penalty imposed to help those in grave sin recognize the gravity of their situation and repent. Excommunication bars you from the sacraments. It does not make you “not” Catholic. It does not some how “kick you out” of the Church.

This is a common misunderstanding of what excommunication is for and what it does.

I do not believe in any god or gods and I feel dishonest knowing that I may still be technically catholic and I’m sure that true believers don’t want an apostate in their midst.

You are always a Catholic and will always be Catholic, now and into eternity. True believers want you in heaven so they do not give up on others. I hope that you will one day embrace the faith and receive the gift of salvation God is holding out to you. The Church will always be ready to welcome you home if and when you are ready.

Is there a process or is just not attending Mass enough? :shrug:I realize that this may be a shock to most. I didn’t join this forum to debate the issues (since the debate would never end) or to bait anyone. I really just want to know about excommunication and I’m willing to respectfully answer questions about my Catholic experience and lack of faith.

It seems you misunderstand excommunication if you hope it will somehow make you “not” Catholic.

 

[Apostate]

Thanks for clarifying that. I thought that might be the case, but I wasn’t clear on it. I suppose it does make sense, the Church ideally wants everyone in, so they wouldn’t make sense to kick anyone out completely.

 

[Pug]

Did you ever make your first communion?

 

[ConstantineTG]

About the Sacraments, Excommunication bars you only from 5 Sacraments. It won’t bar you from Baptism because you have to be Baptized first and be Catholic before you can be Excommunicated.

Also, you are not barred from Confession. For some cases of excommunication, all you need to return to regular Communion with the Church is to go to confession.

 

[wanner47]

Hello,

I was raised what I call “vaguely Catholic.” My family only ever attended Mass sporadically, we were not even christmas/ easter catholics. I was baptized but never Confirmed and I have never been to Confession. I haven’t been to Mass since summer 2004, but since my teen years I’ve been an atheist (OK I had an intensive interest in Buddhism from 1998-2003). Over the last 2 years I’ve been listening to the local Catholic radio station quite regularly to learn more about the faith out of curiosity & in the interest of intellectual honesty. I find that the more I learn from the source, the more certain I become that the Church is, well out of respect for this forum let me just say that it’s not for me. So I want to be officially excommunicated. How can I do that? I do not believe in any god or gods and I feel dishonest knowing that I may still be technically catholic and I’m sure that true believers don’t want an apostate in their midst. Is there a process or is just not attending Mass enough?

I realize that this may be a shock to most. I didn’t join this forum to debate the issues (since the debate would never end) or to bait anyone. I really just want to know about excommunication and I’m willing to respectfully answer questions about my Catholic experience and lack of faith.

If there is no god and the Church has no authority, why would you want an excommunication? By your own standards, it is an act that is empty and worthless.

 

[odile53]

Maybe, your attraction to watching Catholic programming on TV and your intellectual interest in the faith are not vestiges of your early (and rather inadequate) Catholic introductory experiences, but are in fact stirrings of your mind and heart to discern the truth. Many people drift away, even as far as atheism or agnosticism, and then gradually start to look back.

I have no real quarrel even with atheists, but I find it odd that atheists offer the lack of observable proof of the existence of God as proof that God does not exist. Doesn’t science even tell us that visual proof of something is sometimes the least reliable proof?

In any case, the sacrament of baptism imposes an indelible character of being Catholic on your very soul, much like a fingerprint or DNA code. It can’t be changed, regardless of what you do about it. So you can’t get kicked out of the Catholic Church. You’re still a part of the Church, regardless of how you respond to that fact.

It seems to me that these things, your curiosity and the TV programming, are stirring a long-ignored part of your spirit, and the wisest course of action is to continue to explore while keeping an open mind. If you had an interest in Buddhism for awhile, that tells me that there is a spiritual aspect that has stirred inside of you before, that is asking once again to be exercised, like a long-idle muscle.

 

[kenofken]

Hello,

I was raised what I call “vaguely Catholic.” My family only ever attended Mass sporadically, we were not even christmas/ easter catholics. I was baptized but never Confirmed and I have never been to Confession. I haven’t been to Mass since summer 2004, but since my teen years I’ve been an atheist (OK I had an intensive interest in Buddhism from 1998-2003). Over the last 2 years I’ve been listening to the local Catholic radio station quite regularly to learn more about the faith out of curiosity & in the interest of intellectual honesty. I find that the more I learn from the source, the more certain I become that the Church is, well out of respect for this forum let me just say that it’s not for me. So I want to be officially excommunicated. How can I do that? I do not believe in any god or gods and I feel dishonest knowing that I may still be technically catholic and I’m sure that true believers don’t want an apostate in their midst. Is there a process or is just not attending Mass enough?

I realize that this may be a shock to most. I didn’t join this forum to debate the issues (since the debate would never end) or to bait anyone. I really just want to know about excommunication and I’m willing to respectfully answer questions about my Catholic experience and lack of faith.

Excommunication is a much-misunderstood thing, but as a man who is in such a state presently, I can shed some light on the issue. Excommunication is not intended to drum you out of Catholicism and does not throw someone out of the Church in the usual sense. It is intended to be a “medicinal” penalty - something meant to scare the hell INTO you and cause you to change your ways and repent. It worked in the old days because excommunication made you a non-person in western society. It terrified people not only because they believed they were then destined for Hell, but also because it meant nobody else could publicly affiliate with you in any way. This was a penalty which even monarchs feared to incur for many centuries. On a canon law basis, excommunication doesn’t “un-Catholic” you. In theory, you’re still considered Catholic and obligated to follow all of the rules, but you’re a Catholic in very bad standing and one not entitled to communion etc. Excommunication is only mandated for a handful of offenses, and most of them are pretty drastic - attempts on the life of the pope, desecrating the host, procuring an abortion etc. In most cases these days, the Church won’t even issue an official statement declaring you excommunicated. They simply say your act automatically excommunicated you. The only time they publicly excommunicate people is usually reserved for priests or bishops who turn heretic or in some Latin American countries in high-profile abortion cases.

No sir, what you want is called “Actus Formalis Defectionis ab Ecclessia Catholica” - an act of formal defection. You do this by sending a letter to the diocese in which you were baptized stating that you no longer wish to be counted as a member of the Church and that your an apostate who no longer believes in the faith. You also have to make it clear that you understand the consequences of the act - that you won’t qualify for a Catholic wedding, funeral etc. Sometimes the ask that you have the letter notarized or demonstrate that it’s really you writing the letter. They make a notation on your baptism record indication that you defected. NOW, it should be made clear that they still don’t consider you an “ex-Catholic” in the true sense of the word.

They maintain that you can quit the Church as an earthly member but that baptism makes some mark on your soul. It also, in theory, leaves you bound to follow Canon Law. It used to give you a pass on marrying under Catholic rules, but last year they revoked that. As a result, there’s some confusion both in and out of the Church as to whether formal defections can still be processed. But if you want to make a statement of defection to a bishop, it’s your decision to make and live by. If a bishop can’t or won’t formally acknowledge it, that doesn’t make it any less real. If you’re really interested int this process, you can PM me and I will send you a copy of my defection letter.

 

[laszlo]

Apparently you contradict yourself.

Excommunication results to be excluded with the communion of the Catholic people. Still with your question you still want some kind of communion.

The Church expects you back, and you cannot change this. Naturally, the Church like God honors your free will, but acknowledges that you freedom is limited, you cannot delete the sign of baptism from your soul, that will be with you for the eternity.

I fee pity for your contradictions, let my God help you to find the resolution.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Hello,

I was raised what I call “vaguely Catholic.” My family only ever attended Mass sporadically, we were not even christmas/ easter catholics. I was baptized but never Confirmed and I have never been to Confession. I haven’t been to Mass since summer 2004, but since my teen years I’ve been an atheist (OK I had an intensive interest in Buddhism from 1998-2003). Over the last 2 years I’ve been listening to the local Catholic radio station quite regularly to learn more about the faith out of curiosity & in the interest of intellectual honesty. I find that the more I learn from the source, the more certain I become that the Church is, well out of respect for this forum let me just say that it’s not for me. So I want to be officially excommunicated. How can I do that? I do not believe in any god or gods and I feel dishonest knowing that I may still be technically catholic and I’m sure that true believers don’t want an apostate in their midst. Is there a process or is just not attending Mass enough?

I realize that this may be a shock to most. I didn’t join this forum to debate the issues (since the debate would never end) or to bait anyone. I really just want to know about excommunication and I’m willing to respectfully answer questions about my Catholic experience and lack of faith.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I suppose sums up the faith in fairly clear terms, only has one paragraph out of 2865 (in my edition anyway) dealing with excommunication.

It reads as follows -

Paragraph 1463 “Certain particularly grave sins incur excommunication, the most severe ecclesiastical penalty, which impedes the reception of the sacraments and the exercise of certain ecclesiastical acts, and for which absolution consequently cannot be granted, according to canon law, except by the Pope, the bishop or the place or priests authorized by them. In danger of death any priest, even if deprived of faculties for hearing confession, can absolve from every sin and excommunication.”

For example abortion incurs automatic excommunication, regardless of whether the person is aware of that or not. If they partake of the eucharist in that state, they incur judgment upon themselves. Priests are authorised however to lift that excommunication upon confession.

Our only Australian Saint, Mother Mary McKillop, was once excommunicated, supposedly for insubordination. Reading between the lines, I think it was actually due to jealousy and guilty consciences on the part of the accusing priests. It was eventually lifted, but it was no credit to those responsible.

 

[Catherine_k]

 

[Apostate]

If there is no god and the Church has no authority, why would you want an excommunication? By your own standards, it is an act that is empty and worthless.

Yeah, I know it sounds contradictory. It’s more that I want the Church to know that I formally reject many of its teachings and so I figured it would do same, but I obviously was never clear on the real meaning of excommunication. It isn’t something I feel that I need to be a “complete” atheist. It’s more like a gesture to be more honest about myself.

I really appreciate your tolerance, respect and understanding.

 

[kenofken]

Yeah, I know it sounds contradictory. It’s more that I want the Church to know that I formally reject many of its teachings and so I figured it would do same, but I obviously was never clear on the real meaning of excommunication. It isn’t something I feel that I need to be a “complete” atheist. It’s more like a gesture to be more honest about myself.

I really appreciate your tolerance, respect and understanding.

The way I look at it, it’s a matter of mutual respect. The Church has no business counting me as a member because I don’t share it’s beliefs, and I shouldn’t be able to represent myself as a Catholic either.

 

[1ke]

The Church has no business counting me as a member because I don’t share it’s beliefs

That isn’t what makes one a member. It is not dependent upon your beliefs. The Church isn’t a *club *in which one enrolls or cancels membership. It is a family.

Baptism makes one a member of God’s family, the Church, by filial adoption. We receive sanctifying grace and baptismal regeneration for the remission of sin. This makes us Catholic ontologically just as being born of your mother and father makes you a member of the family biologically.

You can leave your family, disown them, change your name, or never even know them because they gave you up as a baby, etc, but you are still biologically their child and a member of their family. You can’t ever be anything other than their child.

Spiritually, baptism incorporates you into the Catholic family. You will always be a Catholic just as you will always be your mother’s son or daughter.

 

[kenofken]

That isn’t what makes one a member. It is not dependent upon your beliefs. The Church isn’t a *club *in which one enrolls or cancels membership. It is a family.

Baptism makes one a member of God’s family, the Church, by filial adoption. We receive sanctifying grace and baptismal regeneration for the remission of sin. This makes us Catholic ontologically just as being born of your mother and father makes you a member of the family biologically.

You can leave your family, disown them, change your name, or never even know them because they gave you up as a baby, etc, but you are still biologically their child and a member of their family. You can’t ever be anything other than their child.

Spiritually, baptism incorporates you into the Catholic family. You will always be a Catholic just as you will always be your mother’s son or daughter.

I don’t buy the whole “ontological” business. To me it’s just a cheap but effective way for an institution to assert authority over most humans who happened to be born in the western hemisphere and Europe over the past 15 centuries or so. Any faith which requires no informed choice or conscious profession of faith is a meaningless one to me and one to which I owe no allegiance. As far as I’m concerned, it holds no more meaning or reality than the Mormon practice of baptizing other people’s dead relatives or Scientology’s “billion-year” contracts with the members of its church.

 

[1ke]

I don’t buy the whole “ontological” business.

I didn’t say you did.

 

[Vico]

Hello,

I was raised what I call “vaguely Catholic.” My family only ever attended Mass sporadically, we were not even christmas/ easter catholics. I was baptized but never Confirmed and I have never been to Confession. I haven’t been to Mass since summer 2004, but since my teen years I’ve been an atheist (OK I had an intensive interest in Buddhism from 1998-2003). Over the last 2 years I’ve been listening to the local Catholic radio station quite regularly to learn more about the faith out of curiosity & in the interest of intellectual honesty. I find that the more I learn from the source, the more certain I become that the Church is, well out of respect for this forum let me just say that it’s not for me. So I want to be officially excommunicated. How can I do that? I do not believe in any god or gods and I feel dishonest knowing that I may still be technically catholic and I’m sure that true believers don’t want an apostate in their midst. Is there a process or is just not attending Mass enough?

I realize that this may be a shock to most. I didn’t join this forum to debate the issues (since the debate would never end) or to bait anyone. I really just want to know about excommunication and I’m willing to respectfully answer questions about my Catholic experience and lack of faith.

There is a process for formal defection. At one time formal defection had an effect of releasing a Catholic from the Cathoic form of marriage, but formal defection has no effect (any more) on matrimony, i.e., one baptised Catholic is always bound to the canonical form of marriage.

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/intrptxt/documents/rc_pc_intrptxt_doc_20060313_actus-formalis_en.html

 

[Catherine_k]

let’s assume someone did defect in the past. If they now wish to return, are they only one confession away from full communion?

 

[1ke]

let’s assume someone did defect in the past. If they now wish to return, are they only one confession away from full communion?

Since a person who formally defected had the defection accepted by the bishop and a notation made in their sacramental records, they would need to approach their bishop to be reinstated. And, then of course, receive the sacrament of Reconciliation.

 

[Pug]

There is a process for formal defection. At one time formal defection had an effect of releasing a Catholic from the Cathoic form of marriage, but formal defection has no effect (any more) on matrimony, i.e., one baptised Catholic is always bound to the canonical form of marriage.

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/intrptxt/documents/rc_pc_intrptxt_doc_20060313_actus-formalis_en.html

I’m not sure, but did you mean to link to this document instead?

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/apost_letters/documents/hf_ben-xvi_apl_20091026_codex-iuris-canonici_en.html