Excommunication

[adf417]

What does it take for the church to excommunicate someone like say Nancy Pelosi? Why has she not yet been excommunicated?

 

[livingwordunity]

What does it take for the church to excommunicate someone like say Nancy Pelosi? Why has she not yet been excommunicated?

According to the teaching of the Church, she was already excommunicated automatically by her persistent acts of heresy. As far as I know, the Church reserves formal excommunication declarations for clerics and doesn’t use them for the laity. I don’t know why her bishop allows her to receive communion, but I will trust his judgment on it.

 

[adf417]

According to the teaching of the Church, she was already excommunicated automatically by her persistent acts of heresy. As far as I know, the Church reserves formal excommunication declarations for clerics and doesn’t use them for the laity. I don’t know why her bishop allows her to receive communion, but I will trust his judgment on it.

Well I guess I need to read up on what excommunicate actually means. This makes no sense. Is there a consequence hidden somewhere in this action? I’m thinking more on the lines of how do I use to teach my children.

 

[JacarandaPurple]

The consequence will come when St. Peter slams the gate in her face, assuming she does not repent.

 

[mcrow]

The consequence will come when St. Peter slams the gate in her face, assuming she does not repent.

That and if you are really excommunicated then you cannot take part in the Eucharist which is a pretty big deal. Not sure if she’s even goes to Mass and if she does if she is allowed to take part.

 

[1ke]

What does it take for the church to excommunicate someone like say Nancy Pelosi? Why has she not yet been excommunicated?

What do you believe excommunication to be? Its purpose and its effects?

 

[Neofight]

What does it take for the church to excommunicate someone like say Nancy Pelosi? Why has she not yet been excommunicated?

Pray for Nancy Pelosi. Let us remove the logs from our own eyes before pointing out the splinter in the eye of someone else.

Peach and all good.

 

[adf417]

What do you believe excommunication to be? Its purpose and its effects?

I assumed it to be not being able to receive the sacrements.

 

[JacarandaPurple]

Yes, but WHY would a bishop choose to cut someone off from the means of salvation? (I know the answer, I am trying to get you to learn it.)

I have the experience of actually witnessing my bishop excommunicate a disobedient, rebellious laicized priest. So I am actually pretty educated, as he took pains to explain to us what it meant, why he did it, and what its purpose was. I realize most Americans do not have that experience, but there are plenty of sources.

 

[livingwordunity]

When I know that I have mortal sin that wasn’t confessed, and I stay seated I appreciate the sacrament more after confessing and receiving it the next time. We should do this on our own without trying to see how much we can get away with before a bishop finally has to say something directly to us.

 

[thistle]

Well I guess I need to read up on what excommunicate actually means. This makes no sense. Is there a consequence hidden somewhere in this action? I’m thinking more on the lines of how do I use to teach my children.

EXCOMMUNICATION

Ferendae Sententiae (imposed after formal proceedings):

Can 1378 The pretended celebration of the Eucharist or of Sacramental Confession
Can 1388 Violation of the seal of confession by an interpreter

Latae Sententiae (imposed automatically):

Can 1364 Apostasy, heresy, schism
Can 1367 Violation of the Scared Species
Can 1370 Laying violent hands on the Pope
Can 1378 Absolution of an accomplice
Can 1382 Episcopal consecration without authorisation from the Holy See
Can 1388 Violation of the seal of confession by a confessor
Can 1398 Procuring abortion

 

[adf417]

Yes, but WHY would a bishop choose to cut someone off from the means of salvation? (I know the answer, I am trying to get you to learn it.)

I have the experience of actually witnessing my bishop excommunicate a disobedient, rebellious laicized priest. So I am actually pretty educated, as he took pains to explain to us what it meant, why he did it, and what its purpose was. I realize most Americans do not have that experience, but there are plenty of sources.

Obviously I don’t understand all there is to this or I would not have started this thread. Even this post adds more to my misunderstanding so let me back up a bit.

1. Is Nancy Pelosi in a state of mortal sin according to the church?
2. Does the church disallow communion to someone in the state of sin?
3. Is a divorced person, waiting on an annulment, disallowed to receive communion?
4. Is holding communion from a person keeping them from salvation (referring to question 3)?

I guess what it boils down to me is how can the church disallow communion (assuming it actually does, I really don’t know) to someone who truly wants it and is doing everything in their power to have their marriage annulled but allow it to someone like Nancy Pelosi?

Also referring to question 4 – I didn’t think communion had anything to do with salvation. If this is so, then isn’t this an argument for open communion? Isn’t this more about unworthiness as opposed to salvation?

Peace!!!

 

[1ke]

1. Is Nancy Pelosi in a state of mortal sin according to the church?

The Church makes no such pronouncementes of who is and isn’t in mortal sin.

We simply don’t know. We know, from her words and deeds, that she is either seriously misguided OR purposely engaging in gravely scandalous acts at times. We don’t know which.

We don’t know what private correct her bishop has given her. We don’t know what private instruction he has given her. We don’t know when she goes to confession and what she confesses when there.

1. Does the church disallow communion to someone in the state of sin?

Those who are conscious of unconfessed mortal sin should refrain from receiving the Eucharist.

1. Is a divorced person, waiting on an annulment, disallowed to receive communion?

Generally, no. The Church does not “disallow” the Eucharist to the divorced.

A divorced person who has been to confession for any part they played in the demise of the marriage is free to receive the Eucharist. A divorced person who is the innocent spouse who was sinned against by the divorce has nothing to confess and may receive the Eucharist. A divorced person who caused the divorce or who simply abandoned the innocent spouse, and who has not been to confession, should refrain from the Eucharist.

1. Is holding communion from a person keeping them from salvation (referring to question 3)?

Not necessarily. The Eucharist isn’t magic. Maybe I don’t understand your question.

I guess what it boils down to me is how can the church disallow communion (assuming it actually does, I really don’t know) to someone who truly wants it and is doing everything in their power to have their marriage annulled but allow it to someone like Nancy Pelosi?

What exactly is “someone like” Nancy Pelosi like?

Also, perhaps you are not meaning a divorced person, but a divorced and civilly remarried person (i.e. someone committing public adultery). Such a person should indeed refrain from receiving the Eucharist because they are in a state of grave sin (adultery). They can start receiving it again if they stop committing adultery.

 

[JacarandaPurple]

Also referring to question 4 – I didn’t think communion had anything to do with salvation.

Don’t read John 6 much, do you?

I am the bread of life.

Your ancestors ate the manna in the desert,but they died;

this is the bread that comes down from heaven so that one may eat it and not die.

I am the living bread that came down from heaven;whoever eats this bread will live forever;and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world.”

The Jews quarreled among themselves,saying,“How can this man give us [his] flesh to eat?”

Jesus said to them,“Amen,amen,I say to you,unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood,you do not have life within you.

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.

For my flesh is true food,and my blood is true drink.

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.

He’s not talking about earthly life.

 

[adf417]

The Church makes no such pronouncementes of who is and isn’t in mortal sin.

We simply don’t know. We know, from her words and deeds, that she is either seriously misguided OR purposely engaging in gravely scandalous acts at times. We don’t know which.

We don’t know what private correct her bishop has given her. We don’t know what private instruction he has given her. We don’t know when she goes to confession and what she confesses when there.

Those who are conscious of unconfessed mortal sin should refrain from receiving the Eucharist.

Yes 1ke, I did mean someone civilly remarried and I’m glad you put it this way - “publicly committing adultery”. I just have a problem seeing the difference in this vs. what our civil leaders publicly profess as their beliefs being against what the church teaches.

I do understand what you are driving at. I’m sure my frustrations and simple understandings make things more difficult than they should be as I look to the church for help in guiding the morals of our young people.

Thanks and God Bless!!!

Generally, no. The Church does not “disallow” the Eucharist to the divorced.

A divorced person who has been to confession for any part they played in the demise of the marriage is free to receive the Eucharist. A divorced person who is the innocent spouse who was sinned against by the divorce has nothing to confess and may receive the Eucharist. A divorced person who caused the divorce or who simply abandoned the innocent spouse, and who has not been to confession, should refrain from the Eucharist.

Not necessarily. The Eucharist isn’t magic. Maybe I don’t understand your question.

What exactly is “someone like” Nancy Pelosi like?

Also, perhaps you are not meaning a divorced person, but a divorced and civilly remarried person (i.e. someone committing public adultery). Such a person should indeed refrain from receiving the Eucharist because they are in a state of grave sin (adultery). They can start receiving it again if they stop committing adultery.

Yes 1ke, I did mean someone civilly remarried and I’m glad you put it this way - “publicly committing adultery”. I just have a problem seeing the difference in this vs. what our civil leaders publicly profess as their beliefs being against what the church teaches.

I do understand what you are driving at. I’m sure my frustrations and simple understandings make things more difficult than they should be as I look to the church for help in guiding the morals of our young people.

Thanks and God Bless!!!

 

[Rence]

What does it take for the church to excommunicate someone like say Nancy Pelosi? Why has she not yet been excommunicated?

Excommunication isn’t a sentence to be handed down. It’s a result of someone’s actions that make them not in communion with the Church. This means that they are not fit to receive Communion, but are obligated to fullfill their other Catholic responibilities (such as attending Mass) and working towards reconciliation. Sometimes that means going to confession, and sometimes that means going to the Bishop for confession.

We don’t know the state of Nancy Pelosi’s soul, or anyone else for that matter. It’s up to her Bishop to decide whether or not she should receive Communion. It should be noted though, that Pelosi has met personally with the Pope was well, and still receives Communion. We don’t know what transpired between them, but it’s between them. We have nothing to say about it.