"Excuses, Excuses"

[Michael_Saint]

Actually, come to think of it, this list sounds very similar to a book by a Legionary priest on discerning the priesthood. It is called “Peter on the Shore”. I have a copy in my basement, having received it years ago from an LC seminarian when I was discerning which diocese or order to join (thank God I did not join them!). But I don’t have time to check it right now.

I just reviewed this book again last year, shortly after the Maciel revelation, and I was struck by how this could be easily used to “twist” all situations and people into a religious “vocation”. I would second Lost Wanderer’s concern here. It was not so much an aid to discernment as it was a method for “procuring religious vocations” - which would not surprisingly be in line with the LC’s modus operandi. At least that was my impression.

I will browse the book again tomorrow and reply.

 

[wina]

How about if the “excuse” is taking care of parents? they are old, nobody will take care of them if I join religious life? how do I know that God calls me to take care of them or join religious life? and keep promise to the one whom I said “yes” to be his spouse? I’ve been discerning and getting more serious about it. May God help me with this situation.

 

[goforgoal]

Michael Saint- I wouldn’t mind reading the book you have mentioned unfortunatley it’s no longer available.

Why do you say “thank God I didn’t join them”? There not approved by the Vatican? Catholic Church?

Hmm, twist people and situations into Religious Vocations?

wina- God bless you for taking care of your elderly parents. I don’t believe that is an excuse perhaps God is wanting you to wait or could it be perhaps that you are living your Vocation by taking care of your elderly parents.

1. Reasonable independence. If one must care for his parents, for instance, he is not free to enter the religious state.

cmri.org/09-vocation_call.html

Besides there are many ways to serve Our Lord and His people.

Third Orders in the Catholic Church

newadvent.org/cathen/14637b.htm

I found this quote awhile back on here it’s become one of my favorite:

“He is not calling you because you deserve to be called or because you want to be called, but because he sees what you can become if you give yourself to him completely and entirely. All the great prophets made excuses as to why they were not worthy. And God’s angel, sent to call, accepted the truth of their statements. But he still persisted in calling!”

from : ORDER OF PREACHERS
The Dominican Family
Trinidad & Tobago

dominicans-tt.org/signsvoc.htm

God bless you all in your journey,
goforgoal

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Hmm, twist people and situations into Religious Vocations?

In other words force people into becoming priests/nuns. Calling the reasons “excuses” doesn’t help.

“He is not calling you because you deserve to be called or because you want to be called, but because he sees what you can become if you give yourself to him completely and entirely. All the great prophets made excuses as to why they were not worthy. And God’s angel, sent to call, accepted the truth of their statements. But he still persisted in calling!”

There’s just one thing I don’t seem to get here. Often times the “not worthy” argument is addressed in this manner, it often uses an example of someone transforming into the complete opposite of what they once were.

Maybe it’s good in the case of those who were seriously in the wrong (former drug addicts like Fr. Corapi are an example) but that sort of transformation isn’t exactly what’s best for everybody.

In my case, when I say I’m not “worthy” it’s really more like I won’t fit the mold. Now it says here that if you offer myself to God, He can change me to fit the mold.

Why didn’t He just make me in a way that I would be fit in the first place? Why didn’t He gift me with strong sense of piety instead of a vigilante’s sense of justice?

What’s the point to make me in one way just to reverse it? To make me an example? Haven’t enough people gone through this transformation to do that for me? What if there’s nothing really wrong with who I am, why should I have God make me the complete opposite then?

 

[BigRedpg51]

We should pay attention to how many times we use the word " I " in our speech and/or excuses. It tells us a lot about where we are centered – not on God, but on ourselves.

If we are so centered on ‘ourselves’, then no matter how hard we might hear God’s calling we should get ourselves thinking about pleasing God…first, last, and always. Answering a religious vocation is not a part-way or half-way measure: It’s the whole enchelada, baby!!!

 

[JReducation]

With all due respect, do you know how easily it would be for people to push vocations on others with this? I mean I myself use this one “excuse” and here is my defense of it.

#9 The verses are not very convincing to those who aren’t confident in the sound of a metaphysical voice. Not to mention, when was the last time God did something as crazy as the ten plagues?

Solemn vows is a privilege that is granted only to those who are members of religious orders and to married couples. Diocesan priests not make any vows. They make two promises: obedience to their bishop in ecclesial matters (not personal) and celibacy (the promise not to marry, not a vow to live in community or to consecrate their lives. Though they do live consecrated celibacy)

Religious congregations make simple vows, because they are not orders. Secular Institutes make simple private vows.

Each category has different obligations, rights , and graces.

Religious orders and married people do make solemn vows. That’s why if a religious in solemn vows attempts to marry without a dispensation the marriage is null and void. Because both vows are solemn, so they can’t trump each other. The religious remains a member of his community, even though he’s physically outside living in sin, but he is excommunicated.

If a religious in simple vows attempts a marriage without a dispensation, the marriage is illegal, but valid. The solemn vows of marriage trump the simple vows of religious life in this case. The religious is automatically expelled from his or her community and you’re excommunicated.

The reason for the differences in vows was a practical one. In the 1600s there were too many religious who were members of orders. Except for Benedictines and their branches, religious orders were not allowed to have an income. They depended on alms. The local people could not support three or four religious houses in one town.

The Church forbade the foundation of new orders. Every group that was founded from then on was a congregation. The Church allowed them to make simple vows. This meant that the congregation could allow the individual to enter with his wealth and inheritances, which would be put to the use of the community.

To this day, Orders do not allow individuals to bring their wealth or their inheritance into the order, because of the solemn vow of poverty. You must sign a legal document giving away everything you own and anything that you may inherit in the future. You must name a beneficiary who takes ownership of your assets and your inheritances immediately. You may not donate any of it to either the order or the Church.

Now you have to difference between a solemn vow of poverty and chastity and a simple vow of the same. The solemn vow of obedience is also different . Religious orders are governed by a rule. That rule may never be changed, not even by the Superior General. Only the pope can change it. Orders can write a constitution, which is just a commentary on the rule and which will cover areas not mentioined in the rule. Those constitutions they can change through a democratic process. Also, religious orders are bound, under penalty of grave sin, to obey their founders, even though they are dead. The exception to this rule are the Carmelites since no one knows who founded them. But they do have a rule written by St. Albert.

Congregations do not have a rule and are not bound to obey their founders. They have constitutions that they create in a democratic session called a chapter.

Both Order and Congregations mus send their constitutions to Rome for final approval. So when you see a sister without a habit, if her constitution does not require it, she does not have to wear it, because that constitution was approved by the Holy See. The Holy See has expressed their desire that religious wear habits, but has never made it a law. When the topic was presented to Pope Benedict again, he also refuses to make it a law. Three popes have refused to make it a law. They want each community to decide for themselves.

Orders usually have a habit in the rule, so we have no choice in the matter. We cannot get rid of it. We can adjust the rules as to when and where we wear it, but we cannot take it away. There are times when it must be worn. This is part of the solemn vow of obedience to the rule.

Congregations don’t have a rule, so they can adjust their regulations according to their needs, times and circumstances.

All orders belong to one of the following families: Carmelite, Augustinian, Franciscan, Basilian, and Benedictine. Even the Dominicans are part of the Augustinian family. They follow the Rule of St. Augustine. The only order that has no rule and is not part of a religious family, but is completely free standing are the Jesuits. They are an exempt order. They are exempt from every rule that applies to other orders. Only the pope and their superior general can make rules for them. Even St. Ignatius was not allowed to write a rule for them. He wrote admonitions and statutes. But they are an order and they do make solemn vows.

Does this help?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Michael_Saint]

[1]Michael Saint- I wouldn’t mind reading the book you have mentioned unfortunatley it’s no longer available.

[2]Why do you say “thank God I didn’t join them”? There not approved by the Vatican? Catholic Church?

[3]Hmm, twist people and situations into Religious Vocations?

1. They are currently being investigated by the Vatican and the entire order may be disbanded.
2. What I meant is that one can use certain techniques and arguments to convince people they have a religious vocation when they really do not. Religious orders over the centuries have been guilty at times and are now cautioned to help people who come to them properly discern rather than attempt to convince them to join their order.

There is a tendency towards bias in that religious vocations directors and formators are eager to “grow their ranks” (I know - I used to be in the seminary, and when men came for a visit, we put intense pressure on them to join the seminary) rather than remain objective in order to truly help the person discern (a) if they truly had a religious vocation, and (b) if they had a vocation to that order.

In times past, if you for instance went to the Jesuits to discern a vocation, they would make sure to “prove” why the Jesuit order was “the best” and why the Dominicans, Franciscans, etc. would not be a good choice. When, in reality, some of those people might have been best suited to those orders instead.

 

[JReducation]

In other words force people into becoming priests/nuns. Calling the reasons “excuses” doesn’t help.

There’s just one thing I don’t seem to get here. Often times the “not worthy” argument is addressed in this manner, it often uses an example of someone transforming into the complete opposite of what they once were.

Maybe it’s good in the case of those who were seriously in the wrong (former drug addicts like Fr. Corapi are an example) but that sort of transformation isn’t exactly what’s best for everybody.

In my case, when I say I’m not “worthy” it’s really more like I won’t fit the mold. Now it says here that if you offer myself to God, He can change me to fit the mold.

Why didn’t He just make me in a way that I would be fit in the first place? Why didn’t He gift me with strong sense of piety instead of a vigilante’s sense of justice?

What’s the point to make me in one way just to reverse it? To make me an example? Haven’t enough people gone through this transformation to do that for me? What if there’s nothing really wrong with who I am, why should I have God make me the complete opposite then?

God does not change us to fit the mold, because there is anything inherently wrong with who we are before we enter religious life or the priesthood. God changes us to fit the mold for the benefit of the Church. For example, if you joined my community and you truly had a vocation, God would help you change so that you can be another Francis of Assisi, because it is for the good of the Church. The Church needs more Francis of Assisi. This is a life long process, not an overnight one.

The most that we can do during the formation years is to teach you the externals, teach you the rule of life and how to observe it, teach you the spirituality and theology of the Franciscan family, teach you to pray as a Franciscan, teach you to work as a Franciscan. We can’t get inside your head and teach you to think as Francis and to look at the world and at God through his eyes. That happens gruadually the more you practice living and praying as he did. You have to do your part. But it’s not because you were bad or deffective, but because the Church needs it.

You see how it works? Everything is always for the sanctification of the Church. Even if you never set foot outside of your religious house, like Trappists, they are becoming more and more like their founders, Sts. Benedict and Bernard. The Church benefits from the graces of men life Benedict and Bernard. This is what the Communion of Sts is about. As you are purified and sanctified, so is the entire body.

That’s why St. Paul speaks about the primacy of consecrated celibacy, while at th same time defending the sacrament of marriage as the alternative for those who are not called to celibacy. Because the end goal is the sanctification of the Church. That only happens as each member grows in holiness. Even in marriage, if there is no change on the part of the spouses and they both stubornly hold on to the persons they were before the marriage, it’s a match made in hell and invalid. You enter marriage knowing that you will have to make changes and compromises and you are willing to do so for the sake of the person you love.

No one can stay in the same spot and expect to be a saint.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

The most that we can do during the formation years is to teach you the externals, teach you the rule of life and how to observe it, teach you the spirituality and theology of the Franciscan family, teach you to pray as a Franciscan, teach you to work as a Franciscan. We can’t get inside your head and teach you to think as Francis and to look at the world and at God through his eyes. That happens gruadually the more you practice living and praying as he did. You have to do your part. But it’s not because you were bad or deffective, but because the Church needs it.

As what Michael Saint presented, there is a chance that people can use the reasoning as a way of convincing others to “join their ranks” without really knowing if they are being called.

Besides, I’m an individualist. Although I understand how important that change is, it doesn’t change the fact that they undergo a radical change.

I however, value my sense of self-identity. I am no St. Francis or St. Benedict. I am me. I am not fond of the idea of turning into something I am not.

That’s why St. Paul speaks about the primacy of consecrated celibacy, while at th same time defending the sacrament of marriage as the alternative for those who are not called to celibacy. Because the end goal is the sanctification of the Church. That only happens as each member grows in holiness. Even in marriage, if there is no change on the part of the spouses and they both stubornly hold on to the persons they were before the marriage, it’s a match made in hell and invalid. You enter marriage knowing that you will have to make changes and compromises and you are willing to do so for the sake of the person you love.

Well if you’re going to talk about compromises in marriage, then of course. It’s inescapable. However, I’d still have more freedom to choose of what exactly I’m supposed to change about myself.

 

[JReducation]

As what Michael Saint presented, there is a chance that people can use the reasoning as a way of convincing others to “join their ranks” without really knowing if they are being called.

This is why the Church extends her “coverage”, for lack of a better term, to the sacrament of Holy Orders and to religious vows. If a person enters either the seminary to be a deacon or priest, or enters a religious community to be a brother or sisters, the confirmation that you have been called by Christ comes from the Church.

All the reasoning in the world is not going to handcuff the will of Christ. If the bishop allows you to be ordained and the ordination is valid, consider yourself called to Holy Orders. If the religious superior allows you to make vows and the profession of vows is valid, consider yourself called to religiuos life. If the religious superior says to a brother that he will be ordained a priest, consider yourself called to be both a religious and a priest.

How does this work? The bishop and the religious superior have been commissioned by the Holy Father to speak on behalf of the Church. Christ speaks through the Church. So when either of these two figures confirms your calling, it is Christ speaking. The only exception would be if there is a cononical impediment that would make either the sacrament of Holy Orders or the vows invalid.

Besides, I’m an individualist. Although I understand how important that change is, it doesn’t change the fact that they undergo a radical change.

We’re all individuals. As the early Christians called it, we’re all called to metanoia, radical change for the sake of the Kingdom. We don’t change at the same rate. It’s a process.

I however, value my sense of self-identity. I am no St. Francis or St. Benedict. I am me. I am not fond of the idea of turning into something I am not.

We don’t cease to be ourselves. We are who we are. We strive to be like our fathers, because they have succeeded in achieving union with Christ and Christian perfection. We follow their way to the same goal, union and Christian perfection. For example, Mother Teresa never lost her identity, but she worked very hard to be like Francis of Assisi. By the end of her life she was a living replica of Francis, but her individuality was still there. She achieved all the virtues of Francis, the union with Christ that Francis achieved, the service of the poor that Francis accomplished. She lived as he lived, from day to day dependent on Providence. She prayed as he prayed, continuously and always doing great works of penance as he did.

Yet, her smile, her voice, her style, her projects and many other things were very much those of Mother Teresa. The same with someone like St. Bernard. He struggled to be like Benedict, to the point that he moved to another monastery that he reformed so as to make it more similar to the original Benedictine ideal. That’s how the Cistercians and Trappists were founded. It was a search to love Christ and serve him more like Benedict. Bernard went on to become a great saint and a doctor of the Church. His writings reveal his journey, not that of Benedict. His life was an immitation of Benedict, but the struggles, fears and successes belonged to Bernard.

Well if you’re going to talk about compromises in marriage, then of course. It’s inescapable. However, I’d still have more freedom to choose of what exactly I’m supposed to change about myself.

Sometimes. Ask anyone who is a parent. Parenthood changes you whether you want to change or not. You have more flexibility than does a member of a religious order, but there are changes that are out of your control if you want to be a good husband and father or good wife and mother.

There is a wonderful statement, I believe it’s in Cor where Paul says that he wishes them all to be like him. It’s not that Paul is trying to take away their personality or individuality. It’s that he has discovered something of great price and he has discovered how to hold on to it. He wishes that they would be like him, discover what he discovered and hold on to it with the same passion and effor that he puts into it.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[wina]

wina- God bless you for taking care of your elderly parents. I don’t believe that is an excuse perhaps God is wanting you to wait or could it be perhaps that you are living your Vocation by taking care of your elderly parents.

Then why my feeling is getting stronger to go for joining religious life if God wants me to take care of my parents? beside I’m engaged too. Have been discerning

 

[I_Fortuna]

If you take this: “#5 ‘I want to have a family.’ Check out: Genesis 12:1-3; Matthew 12:46-50 and Mark 10:28-31” and skip down to this: “Although put in a humorous way, these ‘excuses’ are real. … It is clear that all of them [the prophets and apostles] had to put their ‘self’ aside and trust in God”, it looks as though this is saying that selfishness leads us to marry, and that we would all be a priest or religious if we could just root out selfishness. Is that what this is saying or at least implying?

The Sacrament of marriage is the true picture of us being made in God’s image. Read the part in the Catechism concerning this. If you don’t have the book, it is available online at the Vatican website “secret archives” which are not secret at all. Not all of us are called to the convent or monastery.

 

[JReducation]

The Sacrament of marriage is the true picture of us being made in God’s image. Read the part in the Catechism concerning this. If you don’t have the book, it is available online at the Vatican website “secret archives” which are not secret at all. Not all of us are called to the convent or monastery.

Good grief no. I wouldn’t want to live with some of you folks, you snore.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Sister_Helena]

In other words force people into becoming priests/nuns. Calling the reasons “excuses” doesn’t help.

There’s just one thing I don’t seem to get here. Often times the “not worthy” argument is addressed in this manner, it often uses an example of someone transforming into the complete opposite of what they once were.

Maybe it’s good in the case of those who were seriously in the wrong (former drug addicts like Fr. Corapi are an example) but that sort of transformation isn’t exactly what’s best for everybody.

In my case, when I say I’m not “worthy” it’s really more like I won’t fit the mold. Now it says here that if you offer myself to God, He can change me to fit the mold.

Why didn’t He just make me in a way that I would be fit in the first place? Why didn’t He gift me with strong sense of piety instead of a vigilante’s sense of justice?

What’s the point to make me in one way just to reverse it? To make me an example? Haven’t enough people gone through this transformation to do that for me? What if there’s nothing really wrong with who I am, why should I have God make me the complete opposite then?

We seem to have forgotten that God created us perfectly in the beginning before the Fall. The theology of Original Sin is the fact that after the Fall, we were never the same. God created us in His image and likeness, but after sin entered the world, we have become “broken vessels”, tending to what is not God. The process of transformation in God is the result of two realities- our generous efforts and God’s actual and sanctifying grace. in other words, transformation is just the process of going back to what God originally intended us to be- “be holy as your Father is holy.” God does not make mistakes.

I agree that the greatest mistake in vocation work is that sense of exclusivity- fishing for men and women to fill our ranks, and not so much a genuine attempt to guide them to what God is asking of them and to where God is leading them to go. i think this is partly because resources in each institute have dwindled and there are fewer and busier vocation directors that they try to maximize their efforts to work solely to bring in vocations to individual Communities and not to engage in intense spiritual direction.

In religious life (and spiritual life) , there is always a danger of being “lost in the system.” But this need not happen. Embracing religious life is embracing with one’s free will a PARTICULAR lifestyle. One submits oneself to the Order’s traditions, spirituality and charism. if one cannot do this for whatever reason, then one is not called to religious life, no matter how much they desire it. That is the reason for discernment and formation period, to find out if one is suited for this and if one’s personality is disposed for it. If one wants to become a funeral director and is scared stiff by the sight of a dead body then one is not suited for that kind of job! If I wish to become a music teacher but is tone deaf, I can desire it all I want, but I am not suited for that kind of profession either! The phrase “I am not worthy” is just a pious way of not claiming something that we know is holy (and consecration to God is a holy state.) In reality, none of us can claim being worthy. Religious vocation is pure gift. He calls people according to His own purposes. The vows are counsels- “if you wish to be perfect” - they are not necessary for salvation. Sometimes too in following the Saints we forget that we are called to follow their virtues, not necessarily their personalities. That is where the issue of the “mold” comes in. There will always just be one Benedict, one Francis, or one Teresa. We bring our own personalities and gifts to the Church. We are unique and need not pattern our externals to any Saint. But they were canonized to be examples of grace overcoming nature. There is no such thing as forcing ourselves into a mold. We must discover what we are (self-knowledge), what we need to improve so as to imitate Christ better, and what gifts and talents we are born with that we can use to serve others.

 

[eucharisteo]

These are great. I have to admit that some of them made me think. But I could never imagine myself being married with a family. I never really had that. Had I had better training growing up I have a feeling I would have chosen to be a humble priest, and most likely one of the main religious orders.

I believe none of these were a hindrance for me. What became a hindrance for me was some existing priests in the wrong positions at the wrong time. I like to fool myself into believing I was too valuable to be a priest because God had a special mission for me - to marry a Protestant woman who needed a Catholic husband to show her what true dignity is all about. I’m still trying to be that person today. After I started my own church, ecclesial community or domestic church…gotcha … it’s kind of hard to imagine not having these things that call me “dad”.

My wife also believes that had she grown up Catholic she thinks she would have chosen a religious vocation. Kind of neat, don’t you think? Brother Mark and Sister Faustina. There are 5 of us in our order. It’s coed.

 

[JReducation]

Sometimes too in following the Saints we forget that we are called to follow their virtues, not necessarily their personalities. That is where the issue of the “mold” comes in. There will always just be one Benedict, one Francis, or one Teresa. We bring our own personalities and gifts to the Church. We are unique and need not pattern our externals to any Saint. But they were canonized to be examples of grace overcoming nature. There is no such thing as forcing ourselves into a mold. We must discover what we are (self-knowledge), what we need to improve so as to imitate Christ better, and what gifts and talents we are born with that we can use to serve others.

I believe that what happens, especially in the more monastic communities can be confusing to some because it may look like cloning. But it’s really not. There is certainly a mold. But I believe that it’s one that you voluntarily slip into because you have arrived home.

When someone asks me how they know that they belong in a Carmelite priory vs a Franciscan friary I always ask the same question. “Where did you feel at home, as if you had arrived?” There is a whole spiritual dynamic going on here, but to simplify it; those who enter religious life and persevere are those who are in the mold already. God does not do violence to the human soul or mind nor does he expect us to do violence to ourselves.

As you said so aptly, there will only be one Francis, Benedict, Teresa, Ignatius and so forth. They were fathers and mothers to their religious offspring. Another way of looking at it, they were the masters, the teachers. The religious life becomes a school of perfection, a school of charity. The rule is the textbook and the founder is the teacher, Christ is the subject that you study.

We have a very interesting formula for profession, but I think it speaks to the fear of losing one’s identity very clearly. At our solemn profession we say:

I, Brother N, vow and promise to almighty God, to the Blessed Virgin Mary, to our Holy Father St. Francis, and to you my brother, to observe the observe the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ in the manner of our Seraphic Father Francis, according to his guidance in the Rule of the Friars Minor, living in obedience, without property, and in chastity all the days of my life.

But notice the words “in the manner” and “according to this guidance”. But what is it that we’re promising? We’re promising to observe the Gospel. The founder is the example and guide. We always look to him to make sure that we’re on the right track; but we do not become clones. This was what I was trying to say when I used the example of Mother Teresa. She used Francis of Assisi and Benedict in the spirituality of her society. Benedict was the guide for their life of contemplation and Francis was their guide for the life of community and service to the poor. However, in the middle of this, Mother Teresa was alive and well. She doesn’t get lost and become some split personality between Benedict and Francis. She became the person whom we all grew to know, love and now venerate, Mother Teresa. Yet, if she were a graphic, you would be able to place it over another graphic of Francis and Benedict and you would find pieces that are correspondent to each other.

I believe that people may look at the more monastic communities of men or women and see the habit, the common rules, schedules, obligations, duties, ministries and the other externals and believe that the individual personality is lost, because on the external form we appear the same. What one has to realize is that the internal form is still very unique. As I tell our brothers, “We can only mold you in the externals and teach you the virtues and the spirit of Francis. We cannot convert you. Conversion is a life-long process that is very unique to each person.” The goal of religious life is conversion of manners, as St. Benedict said.

St. Clare said it very well. To paraphrase a very long letter that she writes to Agnes of Prague, she said that we become anonymous to avoid being distracted from the interior work that the soul must accomplish. To understand her correctly, one must understand that anonymity does not mean annulment. You are not annulled. You’re on the path to becoming the person that God meant you to be.

What’s your take on this?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[JTheresa]

QUOTE=wina;6556852]Then why my feeling is getting stronger to go for joining religious life if God wants me to take care of my parents? beside I’m engaged too. Have been discerning

I don’t have a whol lot of expireience in this area, but I would guess that it’s because God wants to give you the strength to do it even if you have to wait a while. If your feelings about it were weak, then you would be more likely to give it up after a while. Having that kind of strong feeling about religious life will help you bear the wait while you take care of your parents. I don’t think that Our Lord would ask you to just stop taking care of your parents. He just wants you to know what He wants for you. And if you earnestly want to know, then He will tell you. Hopefully that helps.
And if you don’t mind me asking, does your fiancé know that you are discerning?

 

[JReducation]

This is important, because a betrothal or engagement is a step toward marriage. If one is discerning a religious or priestly vocation, this raises the question of fairness. Is it fair to the other person who is believing that you’re going to be married?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Sister_Helena]

I believe that what happens, especially in the more monastic communities can be confusing to some because it may look like cloning. But it’s really not. There is certainly a mold. But I believe that it’s one that you voluntarily slip into because you have arrived home.

When someone asks me how they know that they belong in a Carmelite priory vs a Franciscan friary I always ask the same question. “Where did you feel at home, as if you had arrived?” There is a whole spiritual dynamic going on here, but to simplify it; those who enter religious life and persevere are those who are in the mold already. God does not do violence to the human soul or mind nor does he expect us to do violence to ourselves.

As you said so aptly, there will only be one Francis, Benedict, Teresa, Ignatius and so forth. They were fathers and mothers to their religious offspring. Another way of looking at it, they were the masters, the teachers. The religious life becomes a school of perfection, a school of charity. The rule is the textbook and the founder is the teacher, Christ is the subject that you study.

We have a very interesting formula for profession, but I think it speaks to the fear of losing one’s identity very clearly. At our solemn profession we say:

I, Brother N, vow and promise to almighty God, to the Blessed Virgin Mary, to our Holy Father St. Francis, and to you my brother, to observe the observe the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ in the manner of our Seraphic Father Francis, according to his guidance in the Rule of the Friars Minor, living in obedience, without property, and in chastity all the days of my life.

But notice the words “in the manner” and “according to this guidance”. But what is it that we’re promising? We’re promising to observe the Gospel. The founder is the example and guide. We always look to him to make sure that we’re on the right track; but we do not become clones. This was what I was trying to say when I used the example of Mother Teresa. She used Francis of Assisi and Benedict in the spirituality of her society. Benedict was the guide for their life of contemplation and Francis was their guide for the life of community and service to the poor. However, in the middle of this, Mother Teresa was alive and well. She doesn’t get lost and become some split personality between Benedict and Francis. She became the person whom we all grew to know, love and now venerate, Mother Teresa. Yet, if she were a graphic, you would be able to place it over another graphic of Francis and Benedict and you would find pieces that are correspondent to each other.

I believe that people may look at the more monastic communities of men or women and see the habit, the common rules, schedules, obligations, duties, ministries and the other externals and believe that the individual personality is lost, because on the external form we appear the same. What one has to realize is that the internal form is still very unique. As I tell our brothers, “We can only mold you in the externals and teach you the virtues and the spirit of Francis. We cannot convert you. Conversion is a life-long process that is very unique to each person.” The goal of religious life is conversion of manners, as St. Benedict said.

St. Clare said it very well. To paraphrase a very long letter that she writes to Agnes of Prague, she said that we become anonymous to avoid being distracted from the interior work that the soul must accomplish. To understand her correctly, one must understand that anonymity does not mean annulment. You are not annulled. You’re on the path to becoming the person that God meant you to be.

What’s your take on this?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

I believed we are attempting to explain the same thing. The difference is in the semantics. I prefer the word “pattern” versus “mold” (although the goal is the same). Mold conjures an image of rigidity, inflexibility, focused on the external conformity. “Pattern” (or model) makes room for creativity. But you and I are agreeing on the same themes of free will, openness to be guided and the humility to be transformed to something greater than ourselves.

 

[wina]

QUOTE=wina;6556852]Then why my feeling is getting stronger to go for joining religious life if God wants me to take care of my parents? beside I’m engaged too. Have been discerning

I don’t have a whol lot of expireience in this area, but I would guess that it’s because God wants to give you the strength to do it even if you have to wait a while. If your feelings about it were weak, then you would be more likely to give it up after a while. Having that kind of strong feeling about religious life will help you bear the wait while you take care of your parents. I don’t think that Our Lord would ask you to just stop taking care of your parents. He just wants you to know what He wants for you. And if you earnestly want to know, then He will tell you. Hopefully that helps.
And if you don’t mind me asking, does your fiancé know that you are discerning?

Thanks Theresa. That’s what vocation director told me that I should be patient and wait so I can see God’s will more clearly. Pray more, go to confession regularly, take communion as often as I can, and fasting.
Yes, I already told him from beginning, and I told him that both of us need to pray hard about God’s will for us. But when he saw me that I become more serious about it, Some part of him tries to support me but some parts of him no.
To be honest, I never felt this strong feeling like I feel now. I feel this call ups and downs. And I was too afraid to pray for it before but with God’s grace I have courage to pray and no fear to tell about it to my parents, my fiance, my good friends, my relative (uncle and aunt) although I know that I will face their disagreement. I just pray and bring all to God’s hand. I think it’s time for me to move on with my call. I will not find the answer if I don’t really seek it. right?