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pismopal
Guest
but Christ would tell you not to and so would the California Franchise Tax Board.
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Polaris
Guest
Sorry cant resist. I never use calculators but I think E means repeating: if soni8-shadow, I apologise on behalf of the others who feel it amusing or appropriate to chastise others looking to learn about their faith. I honestly find it very challenging to not slam them for slamming you, but that would be rediculous wouldnât it.
But getting to you question on the Mosaic Law. Iâm not the magisterium. Iâm not even a Catholic with a degree in any sort of theology, but one way that Iâve heard scripture explained makes alot of sense.
When one teaches math to a child they donât start with calculus or trig. They start with counting 1 to 10. Then they add 2 plus 2. Eventually itâs multiplication and division. Then we throw in variables, exponents, etc⌠and eventually they can do the calculus. But all this is very complex and must be learned piece by piece.
Similarly, God continues to reveal his truth. From Abraham, to Issac, thru Moses, thru King David, JesusâŚand even more so today with different councils, saints, and apparitions.
First it was, the basics âtrust and obey Godâ taught to Abraham by needing to offer Issac.
Later it was leaning His 10 commandments with Moses.
Learning Godâs might and his gentleness thru King Davidâs battles and psalms.
Knowing Godâs ultimate love through Jesus.
His changing grace though Pentacost.
Learning the trinity through church fathers.
Maryâs role through church councils and apparitionsâŚetcâŚ
But just as calculus doesnât controdict addition. Todayâs Cathoicism shoudnât contradict the early faith. It can clarify it. But Godâs actions then if right, are still right in todayâs world. His truth isnât relative.
But there are complexities. Like in math, that whole thing with
1/3 = .3333E
.3333E x .33333E = .99999E
1/3 x 1/3 = 1.
.9999E = 1 ?
People who know more than me can say this isnât problematic. I look at it and thinkâŚhuh? With enough knowledge the present teaching shouldnât contradict the old teaching, though some may be context specific.
1/3=.3E
.3E*.3E=.1E
1/3*1/3=1/9
1/9=.1E
Whats the problem?
Calculators are bad, come to light side, borrow your parents slide rule. heheheheheh:thumbsup:
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Polaris
Guest
See you already corrected it hehehe but its 1/9 not one six hehehe Im scared for our future Catholics need to practice math more, and theology less hehehehehe
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ni8_shadow
Guest
AHHHH my thread has been hijacked by math people!!!
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BelFarfalla
Guest
You are right that on the surface this law looks terrible.
It is not talking about chattel slavery of the type we think of that occurred in the Southern United States, Central/South America and the Muslim countries.
Remember that the bible show the lives of the Jewish people over thousands of years. It shows Godâs struggle to bring them to monotheism. And as people moved more into monotheism things live slavery were slowly removed from the Jewish society. By the time Jesus came along, slavery among the Jews was rare.
Jewish law on this topic is apparently huge. Only the very basic statement of the law is in the bible. Basically what is in the Bible is a tightening up of the law, giving people more rights. In ancient times slavery (indentured & chattel) were very common. For example, by the end of the Roman Empire half of the population were salves.
The particular type of slavery this verse speaks of is indentured servitude with a Jewish person âpurchasingâ the service of another Jewish person. Remember that in those days there was no welfare system, no bankruptcy, no child adoption services, etc.
When a person was poor or in serious debt they had a huge problem. They and their family starving to death was about the only option besides selling themselves in slavery. A Jewish person who was in debt who find another Jewish person who would pay off their debt. In return the âslaveâ would agree to work for 7 years. Also remember that the idea of jobs as we have them now was not common at all in those days. Iâve read things in which people say that much of what is called slavery in the bible we would now call employment with the employer providing room, board and everything else at the same level he and his family had.
Jewish law had many protects built into it for the Jewish âslaveâ.
For example the indentured slave (IS) had to be treated as a member of the family. They had to be fed the same thing that the family was fed, have the same clothing, the same education, etc.
If a person injured a slave (any kind of slave) the slave became a freeperson. There were also laws that covered things like all Jewish males had to travel to some city (donât recall which one right now) a couple of time a year for a religious gathering. This generally took 3 weeks each time. The slave could not be made to do hard labor, work on the Sabbath or work other holy days.
Additionally, every 7 years Jewish law said that they were not to work the field and just live off of what crops came up naturally from previous plantings. From what I read, the Jewish indentured servant could not be asked to work about 50% of the days they were in servitude.
Further in the case of female slaves, the owners did not have sexual rights to them. This was a really new concept. There are legal systems today that still give a man absolute sexual rights to any female slaves they own. And have no doubt that slavery of the chattel type is alive and well today with about 28 slaves in the world today. About 58,000 in the USA today (yes its outlaws but does not stop those who care less about the law.)
At the end of 7 years the âslaveâ was a free person. The owner had to return any inheritance, assets, etc the âslaveâ had brought into the contract over and above the amount paid to cover the indenture contract. The owner also had to give the slave a sum of money or assets to start their new life with.
Jews were not allowed to sell these salves. They were not property as chattle slaves are. Jewish law also had the death penatly for any jew who kidnapped a person to put them into slavery. This was strickly forbidden. If a slave ran away the other jews were to not return the salve to his/her owner but instead to accept them as a free person and help them out.
So now on the topic of a father selling his daughter into slavery. This is the type of slavery it was talking about. I doubt that many people did this but in cases like a poor father left with a lot of kids after his wife dies, parental illness, extreme poverty and of course the unusual bad parent might resort to this practice. This law as quite an improvement because the young girl had rights. These girls would be under the age of 12.5 since Jewish girls promised in marriage at that age with marital cohabitation starting at the age of 14 or so. So we are talking about pre-teen girls.
(continued below)
It is not talking about chattel slavery of the type we think of that occurred in the Southern United States, Central/South America and the Muslim countries.
Remember that the bible show the lives of the Jewish people over thousands of years. It shows Godâs struggle to bring them to monotheism. And as people moved more into monotheism things live slavery were slowly removed from the Jewish society. By the time Jesus came along, slavery among the Jews was rare.
Jewish law on this topic is apparently huge. Only the very basic statement of the law is in the bible. Basically what is in the Bible is a tightening up of the law, giving people more rights. In ancient times slavery (indentured & chattel) were very common. For example, by the end of the Roman Empire half of the population were salves.
The particular type of slavery this verse speaks of is indentured servitude with a Jewish person âpurchasingâ the service of another Jewish person. Remember that in those days there was no welfare system, no bankruptcy, no child adoption services, etc.
When a person was poor or in serious debt they had a huge problem. They and their family starving to death was about the only option besides selling themselves in slavery. A Jewish person who was in debt who find another Jewish person who would pay off their debt. In return the âslaveâ would agree to work for 7 years. Also remember that the idea of jobs as we have them now was not common at all in those days. Iâve read things in which people say that much of what is called slavery in the bible we would now call employment with the employer providing room, board and everything else at the same level he and his family had.
Jewish law had many protects built into it for the Jewish âslaveâ.
For example the indentured slave (IS) had to be treated as a member of the family. They had to be fed the same thing that the family was fed, have the same clothing, the same education, etc.
If a person injured a slave (any kind of slave) the slave became a freeperson. There were also laws that covered things like all Jewish males had to travel to some city (donât recall which one right now) a couple of time a year for a religious gathering. This generally took 3 weeks each time. The slave could not be made to do hard labor, work on the Sabbath or work other holy days.
Additionally, every 7 years Jewish law said that they were not to work the field and just live off of what crops came up naturally from previous plantings. From what I read, the Jewish indentured servant could not be asked to work about 50% of the days they were in servitude.
Further in the case of female slaves, the owners did not have sexual rights to them. This was a really new concept. There are legal systems today that still give a man absolute sexual rights to any female slaves they own. And have no doubt that slavery of the chattel type is alive and well today with about 28 slaves in the world today. About 58,000 in the USA today (yes its outlaws but does not stop those who care less about the law.)
At the end of 7 years the âslaveâ was a free person. The owner had to return any inheritance, assets, etc the âslaveâ had brought into the contract over and above the amount paid to cover the indenture contract. The owner also had to give the slave a sum of money or assets to start their new life with.
Jews were not allowed to sell these salves. They were not property as chattle slaves are. Jewish law also had the death penatly for any jew who kidnapped a person to put them into slavery. This was strickly forbidden. If a slave ran away the other jews were to not return the salve to his/her owner but instead to accept them as a free person and help them out.
So now on the topic of a father selling his daughter into slavery. This is the type of slavery it was talking about. I doubt that many people did this but in cases like a poor father left with a lot of kids after his wife dies, parental illness, extreme poverty and of course the unusual bad parent might resort to this practice. This law as quite an improvement because the young girl had rights. These girls would be under the age of 12.5 since Jewish girls promised in marriage at that age with marital cohabitation starting at the age of 14 or so. So we are talking about pre-teen girls.
(continued below)
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BelFarfalla
Guest
(continued form above)
A Jewish man, after his 7 years of servitude would take his assets and strike out on his own. It was not acceptable or wise for a Jewish girl to do this. In those days this type of slavery was basically a person becoming part of the ownerâs family. Mostly her âjobâ was to work along side of the other women in the family in the house and fields. It was generally expected that the owner or one of his sons would marry the girl. She was not allowed to do heavy labor. When she married she became a freewoman. If none of the males in the family married her, then she became a freewoman and had all the rights to her assets and extra assets to help her get started in a new life. Usually these girls became so much part of the family that it was a form of adoption. If they married outside of the âownersâ family they often were given the same inheritance as the ownerâs natural daughters. (Jewish girls received their inheritance upon marriage. They usually received a bride gift from the groom.)
I spent a few weeks recently researching this topic. The above is what I learned in a nut shell. This is not the type of slavery that one normally thinks of. The âslaveâ had rights. The owners had huge obligations to the indentured servant. Basically slavery died out among the Jews because it was so costly and a huge obligation. So thatâs what the bible verse is referring to.
A Jewish man, after his 7 years of servitude would take his assets and strike out on his own. It was not acceptable or wise for a Jewish girl to do this. In those days this type of slavery was basically a person becoming part of the ownerâs family. Mostly her âjobâ was to work along side of the other women in the family in the house and fields. It was generally expected that the owner or one of his sons would marry the girl. She was not allowed to do heavy labor. When she married she became a freewoman. If none of the males in the family married her, then she became a freewoman and had all the rights to her assets and extra assets to help her get started in a new life. Usually these girls became so much part of the family that it was a form of adoption. If they married outside of the âownersâ family they often were given the same inheritance as the ownerâs natural daughters. (Jewish girls received their inheritance upon marriage. They usually received a bride gift from the groom.)
I spent a few weeks recently researching this topic. The above is what I learned in a nut shell. This is not the type of slavery that one normally thinks of. The âslaveâ had rights. The owners had huge obligations to the indentured servant. Basically slavery died out among the Jews because it was so costly and a huge obligation. So thatâs what the bible verse is referring to.
T
Tomster
Guest
B
BelFarfalla
Guest
bump this thread to the top for shadow
M
mapleoak
Guest
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