Exodus, Levitcus help

[ShynSup]

I totally disagree with you, as you can see.

But for those who do think it’s the end of the world ASAP and that Jesus will come down from the sky, etc…that would be a happy day, would it not?
If it’s all predicted and going as planned…no need to worry about a thing, I imagine.

Then again…it was supposed to happen about 2000 years ago and it didn’t.
So perhaps these predicted times are not so easy to spot?

.

Are you a Catholic?

Humanity will go through an inmense suffering, as never before. Billions will die, wars will start, nuclear radiation (fukushima), chemical weapons (syria), millions will starve to death, the church will be persecuted, all churches destroyed and burn down, catholics executed for their faith. Then a new world order, with the antichirst as the ultimate ruler. 3 years of light, 3 years of night, where he will reveal his true intentions, and people that have accepted the mark of the beast would have no turning back.

And when everything seems lost, even many faithful christians have lost all hope, Our Lord Jesus Christ will fullfil the prophecies and establish a new kingom here on Earth.

 

[ShynSup]

That’s quite simple…despite supposedly holding all the cards, the Christian God created a fallen people in need of a New Covenant. In other words, the first covenant failed… Now, some very unsavory possibilities could be assigned for this, but then again, I do not find the OT to be particularly enlightening, so its flaws do not trouble me.

Morality is precisely that in my mind…a series of standards developed over time to make life more livable for as many as possible. They are subject to change, but the pace is generally slow…more of a slow evolution.

Sorry, didnt know you were atheist. Thats why. I didnt understand you.

The first convenat failed? What do you mean? In what sense did it fail?

We still use many rules from the old testament, things that are not mentioned in the new testament, for example no marrying your daughter, or any close relative.

The ten commandemnts?

Now, you dont even obey the new testament, does it mean it has failed?

Its in peoples free will to obey or disobey the law, and its failure is independant of this.

“And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them. . . Ye shall observe to do therefore as the Lord your God hath commanded you: ye shall not turn aside to the right hand or to the left. Ye shall walk in all the ways which the Lord your God hath commanded you, that ye may live, and that it may be well with you, and that ye may prolong your days in the land which ye shall possess” (Deut 5:1, 32, 33).

And so it happened, thanks to the mosaic law.

 

[Jon_S_1]

That’s quite simple…despite supposedly holding all the cards, the Christian God created a fallen people in need of a New Covenant. In other words, the first covenant failed… Now, some very unsavory possibilities could be assigned for this, but then again, I do not find the OT to be particularly enlightening, so its flaws do not trouble me.

Morality is precisely that in my mind…a series of standards developed over time to make life more livable for as many as possible. They are subject to change, but the pace is generally slow…more of a slow evolution.

You must have missed the beginning of a Genesis.

He created a perfect people who needed nothing. He created them with a free will to choose him or themselves. They chose themselves and eternal separation from God.

We Screwed it up not him. Thank God he put in place a way to bring us back out of our selfishness.

 

[Jon_S_1]

If you look at all the ‘signs’ we are told to look for to indicate when God is at the door, it is very clear, nearly all of them have been met, I have posted a long list of them somewhere on here in the past, it is a big list and surprising to see how many have taken place or are taking place in modern times. I dont think its a coincidence either.

The same list could have been posted anytime in history.

 

[Jon_S_1]

Are you a Catholic?

Humanity will go through an inmense suffering, as never before. Billions will die, wars will start, nuclear radiation (fukushima), chemical weapons (syria), millions will starve to death, the church will be persecuted, all churches destroyed and burn down, catholics executed for their faith. Then a new world order, with the antichirst as the ultimate ruler. 3 years of light, 3 years of night, where he will reveal his true intentions, and people that have accepted the mark of the beast would have no turning back.

And when everything seems lost, even many faithful christians have lost all hope, Our Lord Jesus Christ will fullfil the prophecies and establish a new kingom here on Earth.

Are you Catholic?

Sounds like you’ve been reading too much Protestant none sense.

 

[ShynSup]

Are you Catholic?

Sounds like you’ve been reading too much Protestant none sense.

Yes I am a Catholic.

Its in the bible.

 

[Jon_S_1]

Yes I am a Catholic.

Its in the bible.

Every generation has thought they were in the end.

I don’t recall anything about Fukushima in the Bible.

The end of the world we will all know it. It will be epic, and I have no doubt we will see the Angels themselves hurling the bowls of wrath upon the earth in a way that would make the world of today look like the garden of Eden.

 

[ShynSup]

Every generation has thought they were in the end.

I don’t recall anything about Fukushima in the Bible.

The end of the world we will all know it. It will be epic, and I have no doubt we will see the Angels themselves hurling the bowls of wrath upon the earth in a way that would make the world of today look like the garden of Eden.

Its is not the end of thw world, it is the end of times. Look up what apocalipsis actually means.

 

[Jon_S_1]

Its is not the end of thw world, it is the end of times. Look up what apocalipsis actually means.

I agree in the sense that every day that passes is a day closer to the end.

There is. Nothing to indicate this is the end times. Specifically a growing Christianity with nearly a third of the planet practicing.

Earthquakes no more frequent then the past. Relative global peace compared to even WW2.

There are far more we should be dealing with the end times nonsense that has no basis whatsoever on the faith.

 

[Contarini]

People, I am reading the bible this year and I am quite shocked by what I read in Exodus and Leviticus. About death for sin and certain rules etc.

Was/is God really like that? Or, was all this changed when Jesus came among us?

I feel saddened by what I have read. It has really shocked me people!

We interpret the whole Bible through Jesus. Jesus reveals what God is like. But the Old Testament is a true revelation of God too, in the terms of ancient Near Eastern culture. The rules were to set them apart from the people around them and to train them in justice and holiness.

Do you have specific issues you’d like to talk about?

 

[lightbeamrider]

Why do Christians not obey the Old Testaments commands to kill homosexuals and disobedient children?
by Matt Slick

Critics of the Bible often cite Old Testament instances of slavery, violence against homosexuals, wiping out nations, etc., as evidence of a morally inadequate set of rules. They will also often ask why present-day Christians don’t follow these “barbaric” teachings today. They complain that Christians are inconsistent, and say that if we really follow the Bible then why don’t we advocate such things as killing both homosexuals (Lev. 20:13) and disobedient children (Deut. 21:18-21).

The reason we don’t is because the Old Covenantal system, that involved such harsh punishments, has been done away with. We are under a new covenant. Jesus said in Luke 22:20, “This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood.”

This new covenant was prophecied in the Old Testament in Jer. 31:31, “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah." It is referenced in 1 Cor. 11:25, 2 Cor. 3:6, Heb. 8:8, 9:15; and 12:24.

Of particular importance to our topic is Heb. 8:13 which says, “When He said, ‘A new covenant,’ He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.” The Old Covenant with its harsh judicial judgments is no longer in effect because we are under a New Covenant.

Part of the reason the Old Testament covenantal system was so harsh is because first, the Old Testament law demonstrates the severity of righteousness and the requirement of perfection before a holy God. Galatians 3:24 says that the law is what points us to Christ. It does this by showing us that we are not able to keep the law and that the only way of obtaining righteousness before God is through the sacrifice of Jesus, who was God in flesh (John 1:1,14; Col. 2:9).

Second, the Old Testament times were very difficult and there were many nations that warred against Israel. Also, the devil and his demonic horde was constantly working to destroy Israel in order to invalidate the prophecies of the coming Messiah, to therefore prevent the Messiah from being born and delivering his people. Therefore, God instituted laws, as difficult as they were, that were consistent with the culture of the times, that ensured the survival of the Jewish nation, that helped to maintain social structure, and also reflected the harshness of the law.

The New Testament covenantal system says that we are to “be at peace with one another,” (Mark 9:50) and “with all men,” (Rom. 12:18). Rom. 14:19 says, “pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another.” After all, “God has called us to peace,” (1 Cor. 7:15).

However, this does not mean that we are to approve of such sins as homosexuality, adultery, lying, and stealing. We are to not participate in the sins of the world. Instead, we are to avoid them. We are not to be violent to anyone since the old theonomic, covenantal system has been done away with (Heb. 8:13). Instead, we are to be kind to them (2 Tim. 2:24-25) and show them love (1 Cor. 16:14; 2 Cor. 5:14). But the moral condemnation of immorality still stands – as is clearly taught in 1 Cor. 6:9-10 and Rom. 1:26-28.

So, the reason Christians are not obligated to stone homosexuals, disobedient children, and adulterers, is because we’re no longer underneath the Old Testament covenantal system. It has been fulfilled and done away with (Heb. 8:13).

What right do you have to judge?

In order for someone to raise a valid objection against the moral statutes of the Old Testament, he or she must provide a standard by which such judgments can be made. While people may not agree with the moral judgments of the Old Testament, not agreeing does not invalidate them or mean they are wrong; nor does simply saying “they were obviously barbaric rules” mean that they were. Likewise, saying that “society has evolved” is a meaningless statement. By what standard does the critic offer morally objective criteria by which he or she can judge another culture’s morals?

We have to ask what right does a person in a present-day culture have to judge any ancient culture which existed in a completely different economic, militaristic, judicial, and geographical configuration? Of course, people are entitled to their opinions and they don’t have to like what the Bible teaches, but not liking it has no bearing on whether or not it is good. So, those critics who insist that the Old Testament laws were wrong need to provide an objective standard (not their own opinions) by which they can make moral judgments.

Added by me: obviously people who try to refute the bible often do not belive in God, and so they do not belive in an objective morality, but in a subjective one. Somif for someone its right to kill, they say, fine, its their opinion. Thats how atheists are. Let us pray for them.

carm.org/why-do-christians-not-obey-old-testaments-commands-to-kill-homosexuals Copy paste.

 

[ShynSup]

carm.org/why-do-christians-not-obey-old-testaments-commands-to-kill-homosexuals Copy paste.

Yes… And?

Didnt you see the “By Matt Slick”?

Or even the: “Added by me”?

You are very observant.

 

[lightbeamrider]

Yes… And?

Didnt you see the “By Matt Slick”?

Or even the: “Added by me”?

You are very observant.

You mean the three sentences at the bottom? It looks as if you copy pasted the whole article by anti Catholic Matt Slick. Just wanted to highlight that fact.

 

[ShynSup]

You mean the three sentences at the bottom? It looks as if you copy pasted the whole article by anti Catholic Matt Slick. Just wanted to highlight that fact.

You wanted to highlight the fact that I copy pasted an article.

Independantly of if the author support the church or is a protestant or whatever, which I have found no evidence of thta, it does not matter. The topic being dicussed is about the bible, and he as a Christian made a really good and clear explanation regarding a topic that often causes confusion. Moreover, in this article there is nothing of anti catholic material.

Now why you want to start a discussion instead of helping the op is out of my comprehension.

 

[Jon_S_1]

You wanted to highlight the fact that I copy pasted an article.

Independantly of if the author support the church or is a protestant or whatever, which I have found no evidence of thta, it does not matter. The topic being dicussed is about the bible, and he as a Christian made a really good and clear explanation regarding a topic that often causes confusion. Moreover, in this article there is nothing of anti catholic material.

Now why you want to start a discussion instead of helping the op is out of my comprehension.

Matt Slick is very anti catholic, as in he says Catholics are going to hell with the whore if Babylon the pope. . Just a heads up. This OT stuff should be ok for the most part.

 

[ShynSup]

Matt Slick is very anti catholic, as in he says Catholics are going to hell with the whore if Babylon the pope. . Just a heads up. This OT stuff should be ok for the most part.

Please qoute, I might be disinformed.

“Finally, in short, I am a five point calvinist, amillennial, post-trib rapture, peudobaptistic (not for salvation), non-cessationist, and covenantal. I do not break fellowship with anyone who holds to the essentials of the faith (i.e., the Trinity, the Deity of Christ, Jesus’ Physical Resurrection, Virgin Birth, Salvation by Grace through Faith alone, Monotheism, and the Gospel being the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus) but does not affirm Calvinist Theology in the non-essentials. I strongly believe that God’s grace and mercy are so extensive that within the Christian community there is a wide range of beliefs and as long as the essentials are not violated, then anyone who holds to those essentials but differs in the non-essentials is my brother or sister in Christ.”

 

[Jon_S_1]

Please qoute, I might be disinformed.

“Finally, in short, I am a five point calvinist, amillennial, post-trib rapture, peudobaptistic (not for salvation), non-cessationist, and covenantal. I do not break fellowship with anyone who holds to the essentials of the faith (i.e., the Trinity, the Deity of Christ, Jesus’ Physical Resurrection, Virgin Birth, Salvation by Grace through Faith alone, Monotheism, and the Gospel being the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus) but does not affirm Calvinist Theology in the non-essentials. I strongly believe that God’s grace and mercy are so extensive that within the Christian community there is a wide range of beliefs and as long as the essentials are not violated, then anyone who holds to those essentials but differs in the non-essentials is my brother or sister in Christ.”

His “essentials” are sola Scriptura and Sola Fide. Both rejected by Catholics.

This is a video that Matt Slick debates Dr Robert Sungenis. If you take the time to watch it you can see how disrespectful intolerant and ignorant Matt Slick is regarding the Catholic Faith.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=uZcXVLcx25c

Or simply read this:

Here is the whole diatribe where Matt Slick says only Catholics who are closet Calvinist are saved : carm.org/are-roman-catholics-christian

And an excerpt from the above link:

CARM’s (Matt Slicks organization) position is simple. If a Roman Catholic believes in the official Roman Catholic teaching on salvation, then he is not a Christian since the official RCC position is contrary to Scripture. Therefore, as a whole, Roman Catholics need to be evangelized. They need to hear the true Gospel. They need to hear that they are not made right before God by being in a church, or by being baptized, but by receiving Christ (John 1:12), believing that Jesus has risen from the dead (Rom. 10:9), and that justification is by faith (Rom. 5:1) and not by our deeds (Rom. 4:5). It is only true faith that results in true works (James 2), not the other way around. Roman Catholics, like anyone else, need to trust in Jesus alone for the forgiveness of their sins and not the Catholic sacraments, not the words of the priest, not the Pope, not Mary, not the saints, not penance, not indulgences, not the rosary, etc. Jesus alone is the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6).

 

[ShynSup]

I agree in the sense that every day that passes is a day closer to the end.

There is. Nothing to indicate this is the end times. Specifically a growing Christianity with nearly a third of the planet practicing.

Earthquakes no more frequent then the past. Relative global peace compared to even WW2.

There are far more we should be dealing with the end times nonsense that has no basis whatsoever on the faith.

Again, its not the end of the world, its the end of time, where a new one will begin.

There is absolutely all to indicate these are the predicted times.

It would seem as if you live inside a bubble, Christianity is not growing at all. In fact its decreasing by millions. A third of the world practicing? I can assure you, most of the people that claim to be Christians or Catholics do not go to church, hardly pray or read the bible.

Look this comment from an Atheist I am discussing with:

Shynn Sup You’re a relic of the past my friend, hate to break it to you, but the world is becoming more and more secular as we speak. I know you probably think that secularism is the work of the devil (lol). but how do you square secularism being the work of the devil when the world is in other respects becoming more and more moral? (ex. far less warfare, crime, most people in the western world aren’t anymore starving etc.) Indeed, it’s painfully obvious that 2000+ year old stories can’t be squared against the realities of what we have learned in the 21st century (both in terms of science and morality). Most people in the hierarchy of the Catholic church are very smart actually, and they recognize many of these advancements (like evolution, and the moral bankruptcy of many Old Testament stories). So, the Catholic hierarchy is trying as we speak to square the circle of 2000+ year old teachings with the human wisdom gained in that time. You’re a dying breed, old school Christianity where people go to hell for not reading the same book as them are over. Time to evolve, see the writing on the walls, because whatever you say or do you wont change the increasing acceptance of secular wisdom, such as evolution.

Todays world has forgotten God, they are centered in the YOLO, in the careless life, in earthly pleasures, pleasures of the earth. Man has no spirituality anymore.
The forces of evil have prevailed on this world. And satan together with the secret sects, elites, are preparing everything for the antichrist revelation.

Actually, the number of Christians killed for their faith doubled in the last year.

Although the world may seem as in peace, better than in WW2, things are not as the may seem. This is just the calm before the storm, WW3 is at the blink of an eye.

Do this words ring any bells?

Chemical weapons, nuclear armament, Syria, war, radiation, extreme heat(South America, Australia, extreme cold (US, Europe),

Go check the news please: “White House suggests Iran sanction bill could draw US into war.”

Regarding earthquakes, volcano eruptions, they are way more common, frequent and powerful that before. Go check stats.

world-earthquakes.com

The situation is Syria is beyond out of control.
Fukushima actually keeps contaminating the sea and all its surroundings.

youtu.be/LR12Q8bmf9c

Ariel Sharon is now dead.

Do you know anything about the warning?

virgendegarabandal.com/conferencia_jose_luisENGLISH.htm

PD: You may want to change that quote of yours, its quite redundant, there is no love without charity. Charity is already love.

 

[ShynSup]

I agree in the sense that every day that passes is a day closer to the end.

There is. Nothing to indicate this is the end times. Specifically a growing Christianity with nearly a third of the planet practicing.

Earthquakes no more frequent then the past. Relative global peace compared to even WW2.

There are far more we should be dealing with the end times nonsense that has no basis whatsoever on the faith.

Google translated message: continue.

I love you, I remain with you until the last moment to remain in the world, but are not part of the mundane, should they be salt of the earth. You, beloved, must be the water that refreshes and revives passing it touches.

The heart and mind of man are so dry that they look extremely cracked and all this because of the lack of My Love …

NASTY OH GENERATION IN EVERY HUMAN BEING YOUR OWN GIVES MEANING TO MY LOVE! …
AND MY LOVE IS ONE AND NOT SUBJECT TO PERSONAL CHANGE.
LACK OF TRUTH BETWEEN YOU TAKE THEM VERY LOW DROP.

The Earth is so polluted and the Sun, the Sun’s cracked up to its depths. The sun’s rays, instant by instant, reaching Earth increasingly harder and more pollution for this.

Soon is, children, the moment the sun will drop all its fury on the planet. Such a strong blast you, knees, convinced that without me, are nothing will. Science will look at all reduced to nothing scientific advances and man, the man who is not spiritual and has no Fe, wander through the desperate streets, including losing his memory to feel reduced to nothing. (1)

You, My people, who follow me, who continue to my side, you are preparing for upcoming events. You who have obeyed My Orders, My Calls and My Mother, given above for this moment, in which Mi Casa alerted them about the contamination by radioactivity, witness how many mocked Me and My Calls. And viewed as in a moment, an earthquake, radioactivity are they falling prey harder and is polluting all the water, the air, the earth itself, the man and this, this pollution is one of the Horsemen of the Apocalypse it will continue and will not stay where he is. The man understood that nuclear energy is one of the great scourges created against himself. (2)

Beloved Ones, are not neglected, volcanoes erupt in sequence and geography vary.

I WILL LOVE YOU INFINITELY MORE THAN WHAT I BELIEVE YOURSELF I LOVE YOU more than you feel that I love them. I love them in spirit and truth, but you constantly refuse to follow me, and I, Beggar of Love, continued from heart to heart without you pay attention to the signs of this time. They are alerted, because I do not act without telling Mi Pueblo. (3)

Middle East will effervesce and the world will look much death indifferently. My poor children, those who believe that what is distant not reach them! Because the indomitable arm fall of communism on America, and especially take the pain to America. (4)

My beloved, pray, pray for the American People. Beloved Ones, the President should bend your knees before Me, their power is off and my power, and Divine Celestial, his pride will be swayed by Mi Casa in an instant.

My beloved, pray for My beloved Argentina.
Oren, this earth will mourn, and then, like a bejeweled bride, the blessing from My House.

LOVED MINE, DO NOT FORGET HIS BROTHERS WHO SUFFER IN THIS MOMENT BY profess their faith, especially those in the Middle East where the pain ensañará and not depart because men’s violence in the Middle East goes far beyond the man himself. Is dominated by those who govern countries.

My People:

SUFFER MUCH FOR YOU!, YOU MUST GIVE ME MUCH!, AND MUCH deny me!
PROMPTLY RETURN TO ME, BECAUSE TIME NO TIME
AND THE MOMENT IS MY SECOND COMING. (5)

Not refuse to My instruments of which I am worth to preach the Truth to the world, to speak for the silence is to announce what they conceal that should speak with Truth.

These are not moments of superficialities are moments Mi Pueblo call to unity, to summon to prayer tackles are hard moments because My children must act and they act according to My will, not your free will.

NO DESIRE GOLDEN CALVES, DESTROY THEM IN THE MOMENTS, HEARTS DESIRE AND CALLED MY CONSCIENCE ALERTS and ready to MEET MY ORDERS AND MY WORD.

They are in critical moments where the great spiritual battle looms without the man perceives it, for lack of a clear conscience and a firm and strong in my faith.

RETURN SOON, BUT BEFORE MY BACK LES will face EACH WITH THEIR CONSCIENCE FOR THAT LOOK AS IS. THIS ACT OF MERCY OF MY HOUSE IS PRIOR TO MY SECOND COMING. (6)

Stay tuned, that I, with my open heart and outstretched towards you My hands Mana shipping new for this generation.

Stay tuned for My Word through My instruments and discern what My real instruments, because not everyone who tells them to come back to Me, is My real instrument.

I love them, I come to you and My Mother, with his belly full of love to welcome you all and albergarles, remains attentive to each word. Walk facing high. He approaches the Earth what will shudder, but before all this truth that I must inform them in love abides My Mercy is infinite for those broken and contrite hearts that are close to me.

I hope, bless them. My people will triumph. I do not abandon you and nor does My Mother.

I love you, I bless you in the Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen.

Your Jesus

 

[ShynSup]

His “essentials” are sola Scriptura and Sola Fide. Both rejected by Catholics.

This is a video that Matt Slick debates Dr Robert Sungenis. If you take the time to watch it you can see how disrespectful intolerant and ignorant Matt Slick is regarding the Catholic Faith.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=uZcXVLcx25c

Or simply read this:

Here is the whole diatribe where Matt Slick says only Catholics who are closet Calvinist are saved : carm.org/are-roman-catholics-christian

And an excerpt from the above link:

Thanks.