Exorcism

[Godric2]

I believe exorcism held a more significant position in the life of the Church than it does now. The Catechism doesn’t make much mention of it.

Is this because we look at evil in a different way now. Has Church teaching developed on this?

I’d be very interested to read what others think.

Exorcism - a big question

 

[Bookcat]

Catechism of the Catholic Church:

1673 When the Church asks publicly and authoritatively in the name of Jesus Christ that a person or object be protected against the power of the Evil One and withdrawn from his dominion, it is called exorcism. Jesus performed exorcisms and from him the Church has received the power and office of exorcizing. In a simple form, exorcism is performed at the celebration of Baptism. The solemn exorcism, called “a major exorcism,” can be performed only by a priest and with the permission of the bishop. The priest must proceed with prudence, strictly observing the rules established by the Church. Exorcism is directed at the expulsion of demons or to the liberation from demonic possession through the spiritual authority which Jesus entrusted to his Church. Illness, especially psychological illness, is a very different matter; treating this is the concern of medical science. Therefore, before an exorcism is performed, it is important to ascertain that one is dealing with the presence of the Evil One, and not an illness.

scborromeo.org/ccc/ccc_toc.htm

 

[Godric2]

Thank you.

I supoose as knowledge of mental illness has grown people nowadays attribute illness to some people’s behaviour when once it was demon possession.

Which makes me then think - was ‘mental illness’ known about, as such, in the days of Our Lord.

Exorcism - a big question

 

[Bookcat]

Thank you.

I supoose as knowledge of mental illness has grown people nowadays attribute illness to some people’s behaviour when once it was demon possession.

Which makes me then think - was ‘mental illness’ known about, as such, in the days of Our Lord.

Yes I imagine to one degree or another mental illness was known about then.

As was possession! etc. (remember that evil had more of a hold on the world before the death and resurrection of Christ…)

As to today - such cases have increased it would seem and the Church has added more and more exorcists to address the problem. The US as I recall now has one in basically every diocese…

They are to be though yes careful in judging …looking for example supernatural signs of possession …(as has been done by the way for centuries…)

 

[MiserableSinner]

I believe exorcism held a more significant position in the life of the Church than it does now. The Catechism doesn’t make much mention of it.

Is this because we look at evil in a different way now. Has Church teaching developed on this?

I’d be very interested to read what others think.

Exorcism - a big question

People stopped believing the Gospel, Early Church Fathers, Saints, and dogma about the fallen angels as much as they believed worldly ideologies.

Mainly the sorcerers Freud and Jung (it is easy to confirm that they had familiar spirits - especially Jung who actually wrote about it) and their “ideas” (lies and half-truths about human flesh from Satan).

This lead to people looking down on exorcists and anyone who believed Satan is real and preached on it. Most people who got possessed were labeled “mentally ill” and still are. I have seen plenty of possessed people in a psych ward. It seems more people in there are possessed than mentally ill. They talk to the spirits in most cases but not always and yes the spirits talk back. The demon doesn’t always reveal itself, though.*** Anyways, some people in the Church started spreading this myth that possession is rare*** when in reality you run into people who are possessed every day of your life. Satan even talked through St Peter, although he wasn’t fully possessed. And that is something to keep in mind. Possession is not always complete possession. Complete possession is more rare than partial possession (often called other things, but the point is a demon is in the flesh. St. Paul was possessed but God willed that so it was a little different. A demon was in his flesh, the definition of possession, but he was not being controlled by the demon. Rather, he was fighting the demon).

There is a good book by an exorcist called “Mary crushes the head of the serpent.” The DR Bible may or may not have mistranslated that, but it explains a fairly common reason that God allows people who are predestined for Heaven to become possessed.

Point is:
Rampant heresy and worldly thought led to the people who have the toughest job on the planet - exorcist priests - being belittled and marginalized in God’s own Church. This led to a decrease in exorcisms. Also, needing a psychiatrist to screen a possessed person doesn’t help considering they normally do not even believe Satan exists.

I salute you all
I salute your Guardian Angels

 

[Deo_Gratias42]

Thank you.

I supoose as knowledge of mental illness has grown people nowadays attribute illness to some people’s behaviour when once it was demon possession.

Which makes me then think - was ‘mental illness’ known about, as such, in the days of Our Lord.

Exorcism - a big question

There’s a full time exorcist who holds a Ph.D. in Thomistic Psychology, and wrote quite the book on the science of mental health, who is quite adamant that a lot of the “mental illnesses” are actually demonic obsession. It’s actually quite interesting.

 

[1believer1]

There’s a full time exorcist who holds a Ph.D. in Thomistic Psychology, and wrote quite the book on the science of mental health, who is quite adamant that a lot of the “mental illnesses” are actually demonic obsession. It’s actually quite interesting.

I would be interested in reading this book… title and author please / or ISBN

 

[commenter]

Perhaps the discrepancy in “how common this problem is” results from that distinction. While “possession” might be rare, perhaps there is a much more common intermediate level of powerful satanic influence where an exorcist’s intervention or some similar spiritual intervention might be needed. Of course, these problems might well overlap with mental illness and drug abuse; the current trend is foolish that says a problem must be either all one, or all the other.

As a social worker, I found 99% of the apparent evil I observed could potentially be explainable as personal drives towards pleasure or power, peer pressure, or biological or psychological processes. But there was that 1% seemed inexplicable, where I wonder…

In the Catholic Charismatic movement 40 years ago, it was common for just about anyone to be invited to participate in “deliverance” type prayers, etc. Today in my diocese it is much more supervised, with only a few trained, identified persons involved, under guidance. That said, I am deeply grateful the Charismatic movement, imperfect as it is, reminded us the supernatural realities exist.

Bishop Paprocki was heavily denounced when he offered public prayer against Satanic evil in the corporate or political sense after his state legalized same sex “marriage”. But he was simply recognizing what was once well understood, that satanic influence can be one factor (among others) that affect communities and societies, as well as individuals. In other words, what spiritual writers call “the world”, not just “the flesh”. I think there can be satanic influence (among other causes) in certain processes in the media and politics, even though perhaps no one person is “possessed”.

 

[multitude]

People stopped believing the Gospel, Early Church Fathers, Saints, and dogma about the fallen angels as much as they believed worldly ideologies.

Mainly the sorcerers Freud and Jung (it is easy to confirm that they had familiar spirits - especially Jung who actually wrote about it) and their “ideas” (lies and half-truths about human flesh from Satan).

This lead to people looking down on exorcists and anyone who believed Satan is real and preached on it. Most people who got possessed were labeled “mentally ill” and still are. I have seen plenty of possessed people in a psych ward. It seems more people in there are possessed than mentally ill. They talk to the spirits in most cases but not always and yes the spirits talk back. The demon doesn’t always reveal itself, though.*** Anyways, some people in the Church started spreading this myth that possession is rare*** when in reality you run into people who are possessed every day of your life. Satan even talked through St Peter, although he wasn’t fully possessed. And that is something to keep in mind. Possession is not always complete possession. Complete possession is more rare than partial possession (often called other things, but the point is a demon is in the flesh. St. Paul was possessed but God willed that so it was a little different. A demon was in his flesh, the definition of possession, but he was not being controlled by the demon. Rather, he was fighting the demon).

There is a good book by an exorcist called “Mary crushes the head of the serpent.” The DR Bible may or may not have mistranslated that, but it explains a fairly common reason that God allows people who are predestined for Heaven to become possessed.

Point is:
Rampant heresy and worldly thought led to the people who have the toughest job on the planet - exorcist priests - being belittled and marginalized in God’s own Church. This led to a decrease in exorcisms. Also, needing a psychiatrist to screen a possessed person doesn’t help considering they normally do not even believe Satan exists.

I salute you all
I salute your Guardian Angels

Backing off from reading psychology and Jungian stuff nowadays. It really does look like modern day astrology to the max. It looks reasonable but what the heck, one can argue for anything if one so sets their heart on it.

By the way, about the book “Mary crushes the serpent”, can you briefly explain that reason you mention, as to why those predestined, are allowed by God, to become possessed?

 

[MiserableSinner]

Backing off from reading psychology and Jungian stuff nowadays. It really does look like modern day astrology to the max. It looks reasonable but what the heck, one can argue for anything if one so sets their heart on it.

By the way, about the book “Mary crushes the serpent”, can you briefly explain that reason you mention, as to why those predestined, are allowed by God, to become possessed?

Here this will do it:

mysticsofthechurch.com/2013/12/the-battle-for-souls-mystic-saints-vs.html

It is a bunch of quotes from the book that this particular exorcist wrote. It will give you a basic understanding of what is happening.

Ask our Mother to ask God to grant you this grace if you are interested. Be aware: it is a very tough fight. But with God’s grace, you can win. If you trust Jesus - you will win for certain although there will be times when you think you will be damned to Hell. Just keep trusting God and doing acts of Love. Be aware though, they are very powerful and pure evil.

We humans don’t know if anyone has actually lost one of these fights. God has so much mercy on a soul who is suffering like that, that I don’t see someone actually losing. They will feel like they are losing for the first few months when the demons are the strongest, but God will grant them victory if they persevere and He will give them grace to persevere.

It is a heavy cross but it is worth it. God is close to you the whole time.

This thread is about exorcism though. Exorcists will run into this but it is not necessary to get an exorcism if it happens. It is different than regular possession. God gives the soul grace to fight the fallen angel(s). When the soul is victorious over them, they are cast back into Hell and the demons that were under them (it is always leaders from what I understand, and never lesser demons) are severely weakened. Many souls are freed from Satan’s dominion like this but they still have to cooperate with Divine Grace and repent.

MOST POSSESSION REQUIRES EXORCISM. This is different. The soul often goes to an exorcist before they find out what is happening, but this is not the same as most possessions.

So this is a little off topic now. It is up to the moderators if they want to leave this post up. But I hope they do because it is good if more people will ask for this grace. It is the most effective way of saving souls that I know of.

I love you all
I salute you all
I salute your Guardian Angels (I love you, Guardian Angels)

 

[AttendeDomine]

I supoose as knowledge of mental illness has grown people nowadays attribute illness to some people’s behaviour when once it was demon possession.

… or, an atheistic and agenda-driven philosophy parading about as science — many forms of psychology — mistakenly attribute demonic possession to mere material phenomena.

This isn’t directly related to your question, but perhaps this book might be of some help as you think about the background of all of this: amazon.com/Psychology-Religion-The-Cult-Self-Worship/dp/0802807259

 

[multitude]

If Jesus was here in this modern world, there is a very good chance He would have been stamped with a bogus mental illness and sent to the funny farm Himself. It’s not the most original idea. But from what I’ve been seeing as of late around here, I’d say it’s worth mentioning.

Remember, Jesus was known as an exorcist too. Nowadays, when people think of exorcisms in modern society, they think of traditional Catholicism. Almost strictly so. I wonder how many of those both inside and outside the Church are even willing to make this connection explicitly. And if so, how many of those are willing to look at its implications. Meh.