Exorcists

[gmcbroom]

I know the Catholic church has exorcists but what about the other denominations Anglican, Lutheran, Baptist, Disciples of Christ, heck even Mormon and Jehovas Witnesses? Do they, and if so is it a specific branch of that denomiation?

Come to think of it concerning Exorcists what suri iuris does it? Is it the Jesuits, Do the Orthodox have a tradition that specializes in it too?

These are questions that recently intriqued me.

 

[Anna_Scott]

I know the Catholic church has exorcists but what about the other denominations Anglican, Lutheran, Baptist, Disciples of Christ, heck even Mormon and Jehovas Witnesses? Do they, and if so is it a specific branch of that denomiation?

Come to think of it concerning Exorcists what suri iuris does it? Is it the Jesuits, Do the Orthodox have a tradition that specializes in it too?

These are questions that recently intriqued me.

This is quite an interesting question. I am a Christian in the Protestant Sector. I grew up in Southern Baptist Churches (no longer Baptist). I have not attended a church who had a specific position or process regarding exorcisms. We need some clear guidelines in the Protestant Sector.

Isn’t there a specific procedure within the Catholic Church for exorcisms?

Anna

 

[TheosisM]

I know the Catholic church has exorcists but what about the other denominations Anglican, Lutheran, Baptist, Disciples of Christ, heck even Mormon and Jehovas Witnesses? Do they, and if so is it a specific branch of that denomiation?

Come to think of it concerning Exorcists what suri iuris does it? Is it the Jesuits, Do the Orthodox have a tradition that specializes in it too?

These are questions that recently intriqued me.

Any priest in any particular (sui iuris) church can perform an exorcism. Just fyi, the Jesuits (Society of Jesus) are not a particular church, but are a religious order within the Church.

The Orthodox Church also has exorcism rites.

orthodoxwiki.org/Exorcism

 

[Anna_Scott]

Any priest in any particular (sui iuris) church can perform an exorcism. Just fyi, the Jesuits (Society of Jesus) are not a particular church, but are a religious order within the Church.

The Orthodox Church also has exorcism rites.

orthodoxwiki.org/Exorcism

Thanks. I checked the link. Very interesting.

Under Protestant & Other, they listed the following:

* Dr. Kurt Koch (ThD) and Dr. Alfred Lechler. Occult Bondage and Deliverance: Advice for Counselling the Sick, the Troubled and the Occultly Oppressed. Transl. from the German and published by Kregel Publications, Grand Rapids, MI, 1971. (198 pp.) ISBN 0825430062 

(By noted Lutheran German theologian, minister and evangelist Kurt E. Koch (1913-1987), along with psychiatrist Dr. Alfred Lechler, both well acquainted with the other's field; Dr Koch pastored in the state Lutheran Church as well as studied the occult and ministered to those suffering from demon afflication and the occult. His ministry took him to more than sixty-five countries on five continents). 

* Jessie Penn-Lewis. War on the Saints. 

(A classic Protestant/Pentecostal work). 

* Gerald Brittle. The Demonologist: The Extraordinary Career of Ed and Lorraine Warren. 

(Please read with caution. Note that the subjects (Ed and Lorraine Warren) are in the tradition of 'paranormal investigators'). 

* Professor Charles Stewart. Demons and the Devil: Moral Imagination in Modern Greek Culture. Princeton University Press (Modern Greek Studies), NJ, 1991. 

(See chapters on Exorcism and Baptism).

Under Medical Sources, they listed the following.

* Stefano Ferracuti, Roberto Sacco, and Renato Lazzari. "Dissociative Trance Disorder: Clinical and Rorschach Findings in Ten Persons Reporting Demon Possession and Treated by Exorcism." In Journal of Personality Assessment, 1996, Vol 66, No. 3, pp.525-539. 

* O. H. Karahodina. Phenomenon of Religious Experience in the Structure of Feelings of Individuals with Mental Disturbances. In Lik Sprava. January 2002, Issue 7, pp.32-36. [in Ukrainian]. 

(Eastern Orthodoxy; Emotions; Humans; Mental Disorders; Mental Healing; Psychometrics; Religion and Psychology; Ukraine)

I find the reference to Dissociative Trance Disorder rather disturbing.

Since I am writing under a Pen Name, I can tell you that many years ago, I worked as an RN in a Psychiatric facility. A number of the (name removed by moderator)atients were diagnosed with Multiple Personality Disorder (now called Dissociative Identity Disorder. ) All were trying to escape a Satanic Cult.

Those years were both the most fascinating and the most frightening years of my career. I remember one shift in particular, when things happened I did not think were possible. After giving report to the night nurse, she said, “These patients need an exorcist, not a Psychiatrist.” I think she was probably right.

Anna

 

[TheosisM]

Since I am writing under a Pen Name, I can tell you that many years ago, I worked as an RN in a Psychiatric facility. A number of the (name removed by moderator)atients were diagnosed with Multiple Personality Disorder (now called Dissociative Identity Disorder. ) All were trying to escape a Satanic Cult.

Those years were both the most fascinating and the most frightening years of my career. I remember one shift in particular, when things happened I did not think were possible. After giving report to the night nurse, she said, “These patients need an exorcist, not a Psychiatrist.” I think she was probably right.

Anna

That’s interesting (I was a psychology major)! During college, I worked as a tech in our ER, and I had a few similar experiences with psych patients. I think that the great thing about exorcism in the Catholic Church is that these people need to be evaluated by a psychiatrist first. On the other hand, psychiatry hasn’t discovered everything that goes wrong with the mind, so who knows? But, my view is that while exorcism is real and that demons can and do interact with people (in the same way that angels can), exorcism can also help people that “think” they’re possessed, even though they aren’t, and the psychiatrists can’t find anything wrong with them. It’s like a placebo for some people.

 

[Anna_Scott]

That’s interesting (I was a psychology major)! During college, I worked as a tech in our ER, and I had a few similar experiences with psych patients. I think that the great thing about exorcism in the Catholic Church is that these people need to be evaluated by a psychiatrist first. On the other hand, psychiatry hasn’t discovered everything that goes wrong with the mind, so who knows? But, my view is that while exorcism is real and that demons can and do interact with people (in the same way that angels can), exorcism can also help people that “think” they’re possessed, even though they aren’t, and the psychiatrists can’t find anything wrong with them. It’s like a placebo for some people.

Interesting comments.

What manifestations did you see in the psych patients that indicated possession?

I agree that people do need to be evaluated by a psychiatrist first, and also by a psychologist who has experience with Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID)–previously called Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD.)

If you were a psychology major, you know that DID is often found in people who have suffered severe abuse/trauma in childhood. The personality in children is not as integrated as it is in adulthood. So, splitting into different personalities or “alters” helps the child cope with unspeakable abuse or trauma.

The challenge arises, in psychiatric evaluation, to determine if the patient is suffering from Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID or MPD) or Post Traumatic Stress Disorder; as opposed to demon possession. Many in the field of Psychiatry and Psychology do not accept DID as a valid diagnosis, much less demon possession.

Demon possession and exorcism are difficult issues. I’m afraid many suffer unnecessarily due to misdiagnosis or lack of knowledge regarding demon possession and the process of exorcism.

Anna

 

[TheosisM]

Interesting comments.

What manifestations did you see in the psych patients that indicated possession?

I agree that people do need to be evaluated by a psychiatrist first, and also by a psychologist who has experience with Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID)–previously called Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD.)

If you were a psychology major, you know that DID is often found in people who have suffered severe abuse/trauma in childhood. The personality in children is not as integrated as it is in adulthood. So, splitting into different personalities or “alters” helps the child cope with unspeakable abuse or trauma.

The challenge arises, in psychiatric evaluation, to determine if the patient is suffering from Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID or MPD) or Post Traumatic Stress Disorder; as opposed to demon possession. Many in the field of Psychiatry and Psychology do not accept DID as a valid diagnosis, much less demon possession.

Demon possession and exorcism are difficult issues. I’m afraid many suffer unnecessarily due to misdiagnosis or lack of knowledge regarding demon possession and the process of exorcism.

Anna

In two cases, classic speaking in a language unknown to the patient (as told by himself and family), as well as supposed visions or premonitions that actually ended up happening, again according to family. The problem here is that many of the “signs and symptoms” of possession can be explained in some sort of way, which is why I agree that the challenge is to differentiate between DID and possession. We also had people that claimed to be visited by demons (a succubus was brought up at one point), though I think those are more psych and less actual demonic.

I wonder if there are a lot of cases of possession in children? I agree, the personality of children is not fully established, so the concept of alters might make more sense (or at least be more acceptable) for children, and possibly wouldn’t be considered a sign of possession but just “kids being kids, they’ll grow out of it”. Would that make claims of possession less frequent in children than adults? Hmmm…

You may be interested in a popular book called “The Rite”. It’s a book about an American Catholic priest that goes off to Rome to go to, basically, a School of Exorcism. It’s really interesting, and shows how quite a few people that go for an exorcism aren’t the stereotypical types that you see in movies like The Exorcist, and some of these people actually go back and back for more exorcisms, like if it’s their family practitioner! That’s where I begin to think that not all exorcisms are really dealing with demons, but are placebos to help some deal with whatever problems they have.

 

[Natalie_Sheldon]

It may be fine to talk in theory , or in hypotheses , or even about the placebo effect of exorcism , but unless you have experienced the horror of demonic attacks , you will never know !

 

[Anna_Scott]

In two cases, classic speaking in a language unknown to the patient (as told by himself and family), as well as supposed visions or premonitions that actually ended up happening, again according to family. The problem here is that many of the “signs and symptoms” of possession can be explained in some sort of way, which is why I agree that the challenge is to differentiate between DID and possession. We also had people that claimed to be visited by demons (a succubus was brought up at one point), though I think those are more psych and less actual demonic.

I wonder if there are a lot of cases of possession in children? I agree, the personality of children is not fully established, so the concept of alters might make more sense (or at least be more acceptable) for children, and possibly wouldn’t be considered a sign of possession but just “kids being kids, they’ll grow out of it”. Would that make claims of possession less frequent in children than adults? Hmmm…

You may be interested in a popular book called “The Rite”. It’s a book about an American Catholic priest that goes off to Rome to go to, basically, a School of Exorcism. It’s really interesting, and shows how quite a few people that go for an exorcism aren’t the stereotypical types that you see in movies like The Exorcist, and some of these people actually go back and back for more exorcisms, like if it’s their family practitioner! That’s where I begin to think that not all exorcisms are really dealing with demons, but are placebos to help some deal with whatever problems they have.

You bring up interesting points. I will check out the Book you recommended.

I do know that many children who develop DID, as a coping tool, are very creative and usually quite intelligent. The alters usually continue into adulthood–though many alters do not age or age at a different rate as the “host personality.” Many are never diagnosed, especially if the host is “co-conscious,” and does not have “blackouts” or lose time.

Still, determining true demon possession seems like a difficult task.

The Satanic Cult Survivors, I worked with, had many alters–some were suicidal, some homicidal, some were even animals. The animal-like noises and animal-like behavior were especially disturbing. I witnessed images appearing and disappearing on their skin–right before my eyes. No way to fake this, and other nurses witnessed similar things. The symbol I saw appear and disappear was a swastika. Other nurses saw other symbols.

Anna